Affirmative Action?

Transfer Students
101

<p>Nuelle: The other thing I forgot to add, is I too had parents that immigrated here, and they didnt speak a word of english (niether did I).</p>

<p>I had to learn the language very quickly (it took about 4 months to do so and be understandable, and understand others.....and I actually learned most through watching Sesame Street and a few other TV shows......which surprisingly helped out a lot! lol).</p>

<p>But again, my parents had some high school (grade 9 or 10 I think.....because the country of our origin was in really bad shape, and education was the last thing on anyones mind there).</p>

<p>So I didnt get any help from them in terms of my learning in high school. I literally had to buckle down and do it, and I wouldnt take no for an answer.</p>

<p>Perhaps the other problem is the motivation factor?</p>

<p>Maybe they dont beleive that they can change their situation with hard work (I did, and many others have as well, so its not impossible........even in the worst situations)</p>

102

<p>Some of you pretend that the application is like this. </p>

<p>-Name
-SAT Score
-SAT II scores. </p>

<p>and that you are based only on the above. I don't understand, the application process is so long. I don't see how one would think it boils down to just a HS GPA and SAT scores.</p>

103

<p>"So how far back in time do people have to go to receive special treatment?"
Jslee1026, I wonder too. But as I said earlier, it is a necessary evil. It's the price we have to pay for a history of oppression. Like someone else said, the white man's guilt. But still, can't deny there is inequality in our society. We have to level the playing field somehow. AA is not working the way it should, but do any of you have a better idea of another way that is fair to all? And Jslee, as you already know, stereotypes about Asian-Americans tend to be positive, whether they are true or not. I think that's the difference. Some of us are expected to underachieve, and others to overachieve.</p>

<p>Dam1727, I agree. Some parents motivate their children to do the best they can, to reach their potential. and others, not so much. why? well assume a Haitian or Cuban family came to the US on a boat, leaving poverty behind to find better opportunities in the US. Many want their kids to be successful and become a nurse. That is enough for them. It pays the bills and has prestige in some communities. They can go to one of the community colleges and make that happen. In the case of immigrants, to some extent, it depends on the sort of life they were leading before they arrived. Can I ask where you're originally from? </p>

<p>TehRahk, well said. That's what gets me annoyed.</p>

104

<p>I heard that for asians Japanese, Korean, and Chinese are not considered minorities anymore throughout the school system. Is that true?</p>

105

<p>Actually, the private school holistic admissions process does benefit recent immigrants (Asian and otherwise), especially if they are economically challenged. It does not, however, favor the statistically advantaged Asian groups (East Asians).</p>

<p>Also, AA in not just about ethnicity, but also gender.</p>

106

<p>The thing you have the most control over is how you put together your application to college, not how the majority percieve your ethnic group. Fixing the larger macro system of discrimination will not get you into college, or help you change the system from within.</p>

<p>With respect to college admissions, try not to play into what you percieve as the Asian stereotype, unless of course you happen to 'be the stereotype'. Then, use your essays, ECs, recs, and the additional info section to highlight what you love about the issue/subject, etc...pay attention to the details so that you stand out as an individual. Use your Asian status at a few schools that have small Asian populations, as well as your top choices.</p>

<p>If you love Math, Science, CS, etc...then it will show through--give teachers specific instructions for your recs that include your outside interests, ask that they write about 1.5-2 pages, and highlight your personal qualities as well as your achievements. If you don't love it, it may show in little ways on your app, that is when it will start to hurt...because you will be like other qualified but not outstanding applicants from every ethnicity and background.</p>

<p>As to the process without AA, some Asians would still have to worry about stereotypes...</p>

<p>Those with Asian surnames would be then at a disadvantage vs. those that do not. There are stereotypes about income, wealth, special talents, geography, EC's, essays, developmental issues, legacy status, etc...anything that requires a judgement call involves a certain amount of stereotyping. Even being in NHS involves stereotyping because it decided who is deserving of membership. The Key Club also makes those decisions,etc...</p>

<p>A holistic admissions process can treat applicants as individuals. The problem is that private colleges can choose a class they feel would be of the most benefit to their current students and alumni, as long as they are not transgressing laws. Again, it is the nature of selective college admissions to look at an applicant in detail. Many different things are considered, but some Asians like to focus on one or two aspect of the process--ethnicity and stats. </p>

<p>Usually, the complaint, here and elsewhere, is about the unfairness of the Asian stereotype--but it sometimes fail to recognize that lumping Latino applicants (at Harvard) with other URMs despite the 1% difference in rates between that group and non-minority applicants, reinforces a Latino stereotype. Why not lump them in with whites or Asians instead? Because it would weaken the point some posters are trying to make about stereotypes.</p>

<p>I don't believe that Asians as a group don't stereotype. All groups stereotype. Individuals can choose to steretype or not as well. The problem is that some people believe that their group is better qualified with respect to selective, private college admissions than others (which can be based on various things like, stats, income, ethnicity, gender, special talent et al.). That is true no matter which ethnicity, gender, region you identify with.</p>

<p>If you want to play the victim, by all means. That's how a victim mentality gets entrenched.</p>

107

<p>I still think Affirmative Action is nothing more than the logic that some minorities are inherently stupid.</p>

108

<p>Actually, AA ensures that there is minimum protection from the majority when it comes to jobs and educational opportunities. That is not the logic behind AA, see the Supreme Court decision. Look at the Federal Courts...</p>

<p>Look at this discussion (ignore some of the rants), though I'm sure you're going to cling to your ideas about AA:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=262725%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=262725&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

109

<p>Perhaps under the conventional wisdom (albeit far from wise) which steers AA, I should move to Egypt (if only there were worthwhile Universities there)...as a Jew, I am sure that under pro-AA-liberal-illogic, I could DEMAND that I receive preferential treatment because my "people" were persecuted thousands of years ago by the Pharaohs. </p>

<p>If you take a look at my blog there is a wonderful link to an article...pertaining to race based quotas. </p>

<p>You can find it here.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.jevanfrankensmith.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jevanfrankensmith.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

110

<p>Actually, some Asians argue that Jews are over represented in selective colleges...and that points to discriminatory ethnic admissions policies that are detrimental to Asians in admissions. </p>

<p>Nevermind that a holistic admissions policy that considers more attributes is generally more fair than admissions policies that are strictly stats based.</p>

111

<p>Was I talking about Asian/Jewish admission protocols in the USA? I don't think i was... is there a spot on applications to put "JEWISH" as your ethnicity? I don't think so either....Apparently you believe Judaism is more than just a religion. Sounds a bit racist to me. And although I can not point to corroborative figures at the moment (I'm on my blackberry) I feel comfortable in saying that Jew's like myself, may be over represented in some schools due to our high achievements in education/academia. (Just like blacks are over represented in the NBA.)</p>

112

<p>
[quote]
I should move to Egypt (if only there were worthwhile Universities there)...as a Jew

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but I thought Muslims didn't like the Jews.... :-&lt;/p>

113

<p>LOL apparently my attempt to use Reductio ad Absurdum to point out the weakness of the logic behind AA failed....but</p>

<p>Of course Muslims hate Jews...;) duh.</p>

114

<p>Yeah, this is an arguement that will never end.</p>

<p>Yes, African Americans were wronged. No one denies that. But AA is a band-aid. Instead of addressing the larger issue of poorer schools, they try to elevate a select few in order to prove that they haven't forgot the whole race. In the end, the people who are really hurt by AA, are the fellow students of those helped by AA. The ones who are left behind.</p>

<p>And those who do move on are stamped with that "She only got in because she's black." There are smart African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, whites...out there. They don't need the AA. What they need is to be able to tell there own story to unbiased ears.</p>

<p>I agree, adcoms shouldn't see names or genders. They need to hear each story with no color in mind. I lived in an all African American community for a long time. As the only Asian, I was a minority. But despite the fact that I grew up in the same school system, with the same income level, and with better test scores and accomplishments, I didn't get into the school I wanted. But other, less qualified classmates did--not less qualified because they were black. Less qualified because they didn't work as hard or do as much as I did.</p>

115

<p>well... "Judaism" is just a religion. But the term "Jew" today contains the set of all people who look like Jews, have Jewish last names, and believers of Judaism. (Well, why don't we just use Hitler's definition.) And it is this Jew that is over-represented in certain institutions.</p>

<p>"I feel comfortable in saying that Jew's like myself, may be over represented in some schools due to our high achievements in education/academia."
statements like that are one of the things that foster antisemitism. JMHO of course :P</p>

116

<p>Firefly can attest firsthand to no only the shortcomings but the not-coming at alls of AA. When you say "poorer schools" did you mean poor financially or poor in terms of their ability to prepare students for college? Hopefully you meant the latter.</p>

117

<p>"She only got in because she's black."</p>

<p>The Stanford one that people have been talking a lot about recently? Yeah, she got in only because she's black (and poor.)</p>

118

<p>I meant the latter primarily. My school wasn't really poor financially. We had computers for every classroom, new books, etc. But kids just weren't prepared. Standards were just lower, both personally and by the school.</p>

119

<p>Well, if she got in because she did great stuff despite being poor, that's great.</p>

<p>But when you have AA that primary helps out races, whether that girl got in because she really is smart/talented (I didn't read the article), she will always be looked down upon because she is black. People will always say, "Well, she's only here because she's black."</p>

120

<p>she wouldn't if she had "Asian" SAT scores and gpa</p>