<p>I may be getting into a deep deep trouble with this thread.</p>
<p>But I just want to see what others think about the whole affirmative action particularly in education.</p>
<p>How do you feel about this phrase taken from wikipedia (although not the greatest reference out there):</p>
<p>"Some also claim that in college or professional admissions, it hurts those it intends to help, since it causes a "mismatch" effect by admitting minority students who are less qualified than their peers into more rigorous programs wherein they cannot keep up."</p>
<p>Also, do you feel that the affirmative action is in fact a discrimination against those it intends to help?</p>
<p>Well. How do you define disadvantaged. I doubt a 2.0 hispanic/black student would get in over a 3.9 student. But when comparing 3.2 to 3.9 gpas, there really isn't much difference. I mean, I used to get a 3.3 and I partied every day. So its just a matter of prioritizing. I don't understand how you can say someone is less qualified based on GPA. School is just about attending class on time, reading the required work, and turning in the required homework. Honestly, do any of you feel like you're more capable of accomplishing a task just because your gpa is high? Just think about it from the business perspective. Does an MBA or business degree qualify someone to build a multimillion dollar business? Essentially, no it doesn't. Its work ethic. Its an opportunity for those less fortunate. A lot of hispanic children are first generation american born from families that have little educational background and even less income. On the other hand, civil rights only passed thirty years ago, giving blacks a slighter leg up with family income and education. But the fact of the matter is that the schools need to be diverse in order for people to experience diversity. You don't learn to hate blacks by having a black roommate. You don't learn to hate hispanics by having a hispanic roommate. So how you see, is how you see it. Its an opportunity for minorities and the majority, an opportunity to learn to live in a diverse country.</p>
<p>You can spend all the time you want learning about diversity in a book. But until you actually are faced with people outside of a "normal" social circle, you can't really say you're diverse.</p>
<p>there's another thread in the law school forum discussing how firms are hiring minorities based on lower standards (AA) and those minorities are unprepared to the point that they just end up falling apart in the end and never being as successful as their coworkers who are ready to do the work.</p>
<p>If the person can eventually do the work at Harvard or wherever they are admitted, then Affirmative Action has ultimately worked. However, if schools saw (or are seeing, like law firms) minorities fail compared to their classmates, then AA is obviously not the answer to balancing the playing field.</p>
<p>Just a quick note: slavery was abolished less than 150 years ago. Considering the fact life expectancy is approx. 75 years, this means that there might exist people living today (albeit very, very old) who at a very young age may have actually interacted with former slaves. Ex: A slave born in 1855 is freed in 1865. He then lives to interact with his grandchildren in 1920. </p>
<p>If some people living today actually remember hearing first hand accounts of a slave, then the effects of slavery are still very much with us, and it shouldn't even matter whether someone is less qualified.</p>
<p>I was watching a TV program recently and it dealt with the racism in America today.</p>
<p>Hearing what the advocates say about diversity, equal rights, and etc. I felt little disgusted.</p>
<p>I am all for basic human rights and all. I am also a minority (at least in America), and I moved to this country when I was 12.</p>
<p>Everyone deserves basic human rights. Who doubts? Any entity taking advantage of one's basic needs is cruel and unacceptable.</p>
<p>But noone deserves a job on Wall Street or a spot at a top college. </p>
<p>You don't deserve such privlieges. You earn it.</p>
<p>I think everyone deserves basic education. But this does not mean everyone deserves to study at top colleges. Further, it does not make sense to slightly favor one group of people because they came from less affluent or less fortunate backgrounds.</p>
<p>When Black vs. White is a hot topic, minority immigrants are ignored.</p>
<p>What about us? I see plenty of Korean-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Indian-Americans enter top colleges and land jobs on Wall Street or become doctors, lawyers, and etc.</p>
<p>Although we are minority students, we don't get the kind of favor that many hispanic and african-american students get. And that upsets me. We are indeed being discriminated against.</p>
<p>Jslee, as far as I can tell, Indian-Americans and and Korean-Americans don't have a history of having legally sanctioned discrimination imposed on them during the last 2 centuries. </p>
<p>Sorry, but it's like saying that someone from West India with dark skin color who emigrates to this country has the same disadvantages as an African-American whose family has lived in America for centuries.</p>
<p>Edit: Okay, sorry, I forgot British imperialistic authority in India. :) But that still doesn't really apply to the U.S.</p>
<p>"I doubt a 2.0 hispanic/black student would get in over a 3.9 student."</p>
<p>lol you doubt wrongly</p>
<hr>
<p>If that's the case then explain why there are so few hispanics/blacks in colleges. You can fight against affirmative action all you want. If you don't want to fight it, go to the university of california where it was abolished. Plain and simple. I'm going there.</p>
<hr>
<p>jslee1206: I honestly do not know why there are so many asians in college. My speculation is that asians immigrate the legal way(most of the time). America doesn't want half ass immigrants from what I have heard. So generally, only the top 5-10% from the asian countries usually make it over here(disregarding immigration due to war). Therefore, if the United States is pulling the top 5-10% of the asian countries, there should be a direct correlation with the overpopulating of the asian background in the colleges. Afterall, intellectual capacity is hereditary.</p>
<p>True, most of those "new" immigrants such as Hispanics, Asians, and Eastern Europeans came to this country later on.</p>
<p>What about the African-Americans born after the slavery was abolished? How about those were born on the same year as you were born?</p>
<p>Seriously, I am sure Asian-American can speak and write English way better than anybody if we were taught to speak this language for the last 200 years.</p>
<p>We worked hard, and we went through hard lives and struggled to acculturate ourselves to the new world. Most immigrant families live poorer lives. We know the only way to get out of this is to study hard and get a good job afterwards. But then again, we still don't get the same benefits as Hispanic immigrants. What's the explanation?</p>
<p>I really don't get this multicultural diversity that schools strive for.
and why do they give minorities advantages? I mean seriously, there are many talented smart minority students. When i read some of the acceptance threads, it angers me. A minority gets in to good school with less than 2100 and sub 700 SAT IIs, yet many extremely qualified students with 2200+ and 750+ SAT IIs are waitlisted and rejected. </p>
<p>We should push for a new type of application system, a system without last name and race ever being mentioned on the application.
even when you are mentioned in your recommendations:
instead of saying "Mr. Kim Wan Lee is a terrific student who excelled in math and sciences"
it should say"022312X3 is a terrfic student who excelled in math and sciences"</p>
<p>If Asian-Americans were taught to speak and write English for the last 200 years...I am sure we will speak the language better than anybody...it sounds childish but...for god's sake...it's been two goddamn centuries!</p>
<p>I think minority people do not perform well because they live in poorer conditions is quite absurd...and Asian-Americans proved it to be wrong</p>
<p>I mean...i think this country is fair and our rights protected by the constitution...stop complaining and study your assoff...why do people think they deserve everything?</p>
<p>its easy to defend affirmative action...until the day you dont get into your dream school so some underqualified student of 'color' who has struggled takes your place bc of his or her skin tone..its racism. PURE RACISM..</p>
<p>(no i'm not white and bitter and no this has never happened to me) in fact, if anything, i am someone who could reap the benefits of this bs law</p>
<p>i'm just against it bc you can't fight racism with racism...</p>
<p>and it can go both ways, i understand, but i choose to take the side that is considered 'less sensitive'</p>
<p>"I really don't get this multicultural diversity that schools strive for.
and why do they give minorities advantages? I mean seriously, there are many talented smart minority students. When i read some of the acceptance threads, it angers me. A minority gets in to good school with less than 2100 and sub 700 SAT IIs, yet many extremely qualified students with 2200+ and 750+ SAT IIs are waitlisted and rejected."</p>
<hr>
<p>Do these minorities that get accepted drop out after a few years? I mean, what's the difference between a hundred points on the sats. Where do you think the 2200+ students go, another good institution. Its like saying, "a 2.0 student can never go on to be president" or "a guy that can't pronounce california can build a 800 million dollar empire and become the governor of california." I mean, common, if you're depending on your GPA to get you through life, I'll honestly say, you're the one that is disadvantaged for thinking that the gpa is what proves success.</p>
<p>and every minority group has their own problems. african-americans aren't the only group in history to have ever suffered through centuries of discrimination and racism...they just get the most attention for it in the U.S.</p>
<p>while i admit that african-americans are at a disadvantage, i think it comes down to the culture...when a community (any community) has mothers who choose to strip and take the easy route to make money, irresponsible fathers who are absent in their children's life, etc etc then you have a cultural problem...lack of money in schools is not the reason students in low income areas fail, it is the LACK of money and education that causes the parents to have to overwork and be less able to spend time with their children to raise college-bound children. </p>
<p>its cultural and no stupid law that scratches the surface is going to change cultural issues that run so deep.</p>
<p>AFFIRMATIVE ACTIONS REWARDS A GROUP FOR THE SUFFERING THEIR ANCESTORS ENDURED AND PUNISHES A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR THE SUFFERING THAT THEIR ANCESTORS CAUSED</p>
<p>(based on somebody else's quote forgot the name, hes a professor somewhere)</p>
<p>to be honest, i dont give a rat's behind about whether the ethnicities in my school are uniformly distributed or dramatically skewed. i would like ideological diversity..</p>
<p>i rather be in 100% white school of people from different backgrounds than a 'diverse' school with people who all think and dress and act a like.</p>
<p>i hate how diversity always equals colored people. its just not the case.</p>
<p>"I think minority people do not perform well because they live in poorer conditions is quite absurd...and Asian-Americans proved it to be wrong."</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, Asian culture is rooted in a strong work ethic. Which is why a tiny island with little to none natural resources can overcome the greatest single event of violence in the history of the world to become one of the world's economic superpowers. Even without any sort of territorial expansion. </p>
<p>Now, contrast that with modern day Africa and you'll understand my point.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I doubt a 2.0 hispanic/black student would get in over a 3.9 student."</p>
<p>lol you doubt wrongly
[/quote]
</p>
<p>im sorry but lostincode had the dumbest comment on here! How can you possibly think that a school like UMich would give priority to someone with a 2.0 over a 3.9, even on the point based system a gpa was worth more than being a minority at AA schools.</p>
<p>hey, I'm an Ann Arborite but not a wolverine and about 150 people from my high school class of 600 went to Michigan. They were ALL well-qualified and the ones with lower GPAs (not necessarily minorities) had amazing talents and life stories. At a big public school, it doesn't hit a lot of people as hard because it's not like there are a small number of spots open. For more competitive schools, it is the case...they're not gonna take all the qualified kids.
"its easy to defend affirmative action...until the day you dont get into your dream school so some underqualified student of 'color' who has struggled takes your place bc of his or her skin tone.." <--- completely agree </p>
<p>But I know that many of you have never lived in true desolation. Have gone to a school that their only goal is to graduate students. </p>
<p>Students should be based on how close they have met their maximum potential. I don't think a student from a very wealthy family with a 3.7 gets accepted over a middle class student with 3.5. The wealthier family has access to more resources. </p>
<p>I know kids now who have to handwash their clothes and do odd jobs like collect bottles to feed themselves. These kids are in elementary and middle school. School has to come second behind neccesities like eating. </p>
<p>Blacks have not been allowed to achieve legacies in great university yet. How long ago was the little rock nine? Not too long ago... Even after the Brown verdict, there was still tremendous opposition many years after that. </p>
<p>Blacks have fought in almost every war for the U.S. and its freedom even when they did not have equal rights. Colleges should actively seek them. </p>
<p>On that note, black and hispanic communities need a DRASTIC reform. With emphasis on marriage, education and health. Marriage for blacks was the highest among all races at one point. Now the kids born out of wedlock for blacks is reprehensible. </p>
<p>In the end, affirmative action works because good values learned will be good values taught to their kids.</p>