<p>It is worth attending Julliard pre college program given the cost and time it requires for many of us who have to drive into the city? Any thoughts on the value of this program?</p>
<p>I drove my daughter to Juilliard precollege twice a week for two years from Philadelphia. There were people coming in from much farther-- driving from Ann Arbor and Maine, flying in from San Diego and Texas.</p>
<p>We live in an area where many students choose to drive into the city for precollege programs…and many equally talented students choose to study closer to home. For some, it’s a question of schedule conflicts, or religious obligations, or having a musical environment locally that meets their needs.</p>
<p>BUT, attending one of the big name programs like Juilliard does offer a certain name recognition that can open doors plus you’re pretty much guaranteed a cohort of musically competitive peers which might be more difficult to put together locally (not impossible but harder to do). I believe Juilliard precollege students get an automatic pass through prescreening for Juilliard undergraduate admissions, which is a nice bonus.</p>
<p>Random: Ditto to what all others have said so far, plus sometimes you will be noticed by someone in the audience, too. Son received offers to audition for different youth orchestras plus one local college offers scholaship money for their summer camp for attending honors ensembles. So if it fits in your schedule, go have fun!</p>
<p>Value is hard to quantify for something like this. It can be exhausting and expensive to go to a precollege program, and on top of that, you end up spending your entire Saturday at the program, which puts you behind in homework. For two years I could not make any Saturday plans. On the other hand, I went to a lot of museums in NYC that I would not have visited and got a lot of work done in the many nearby libraries. In decent weather I walked all over the city, from river to river to river to Harlem, which was something I would never have done in my life had I not had an excuse to be there. </p>
<p>As Stradmom says, precollege kids don’t have to prescreen for a Juilliard college audition, so that is one less thing to worry about. At the time my daughter was applying to colleges, this was true for all except composers and vocalists. I think that vocalist no longer have to prescreen. </p>
<p>The precollege office staff is exceptionally nice and caring. They know each student by name and I found them to be generous and responsive whenever I had a concern.</p>
<p>The other parents are a plus and a minus. Some are quite terrifying competitive-- you’d be afraid to get in an elevator with them. But I made a lot of great friends whom I would not have otherwise met.</p>
<p>As for the program: the orchestra was the best my daughter had played in at the time. Other parents were quick to tell me that it was not so great as the orchestras their own kids played in at home or camp, but my daughter appreciated the level bump tremendously and the experience made her realize that she loves orchestra. Chamber not so much, but that was because she had an unusual amount of chamber experience and a great program at home. Her teacher, which was the reason for going there in the first place, was phenomenal, of course. It was also a great social outlet, to spend time during the day with kids who cared about classical music, not as easy to come by during the week at home.</p>
<p>"Recently I attended the concert of a local well-known conservatory. Every one of the players was a star. It interested me, however, that they did not play as well together as I would have expected. I figure it is one thing to be a great player, and another thing to be a great TEAM player. That is what my D got out of her experience. "</p>
<p>Clrn8mom, not too long ago the Curtis Symphony Orchestra played Carnegie Hall, and the reviewer pretty much said what you did, that they played like a lot of soloists, not ensemble players. I suspect it is because the admission process doesn’t focus on ensemble playing at all, and they get kids with little or no ensemble experience who otherwise play at a high level or have the mistaken notiong that ensemble playing ‘isn’t important’. I have seen this at the pre college level, with talented kids who basically don’t care about ensemble playing (pre college is a bit different reasons, there is either because the kid sees ensemble as ‘beneath him/her’ or because they are in the program to get into an HYP school academically or they try but have little background in ensemble playing)</p>
<p>All your posts have been very interesting experiences and wonderful information for a mom like me who is completely new to the world of western music, but happens to have two Ds with a lot of talent and love for classical music. I am trying my best to give them the best music education possible, even if they don’t eventually major in music. Next question is, how competitive is it to get into Julliard pre college for flute? What is the admissions ratio? Any input would be appreciated since I don’t want to give false hope to my D.</p>
<p>Sreesri,</p>
<p>I don’t have the numbers you requested for the Juilliard program, but thought you might like a pointer to the first ten or twelve posts on the thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html</a> if you have not already found them on your own.</p>
<p>Good post (as always), musicprnt. And so true. At well-known or “top” conservatories there are always going to be students with no interest or experience in orchestra or chamber. Even though they play like superstars, they are often clueless and uninterested in the nuances of ensemble playing. This will be most apparent in an orchestra of a very small school like Curtis, because they use basically the same personnel for every concert, whereas a slightly larger (still small) school like Juilliard has basically a revolving pick-up orchestra, with different personnel throughout the season. The Juilliard orchestra might rehearse ten or twelve times for each concert; the Curtis orchestra is rehearsing together with the essentially same group of musicians for a whole year. (My daughter, who heard the Curtis orch a couple of times last year, thought they sounded very tight and polished.) Both approaches create a legitimate, albeit different, experience for the student player. At Juilliard string students audition for seating at the beginning of the year and are given an opportunity to request concerts from the roster. My daughter felt very fortunate in being granted her requests both years she’s been there. A fantastic opportunity to play under the baton of visiting guest conductors as well as the heads of the conducting program. I assume the kids who are less interested tend not to practice their excerpts as carefully and don’t request the higher-profile concerts. </p>
<p>As for chamber, at Juilliard (and I think this is also true for Curtis) students are given the opportunity to form their own chamber group and seek out a coach. You can also simply go into a placement audition and get an assignment to fulfill your minimum graduation requirement. This creates a great opportunity for the students who are highly interested in chamber. As a parent watching this from a distance, I appreciate the way Juilliard cultivates self-reliance in their students. I also just noticed how far afield my comment is from All-state chorus! Apologies for that, although one can trace the organic flow of this conversation!</p>
<p>Glassharmonica-</p>
<p>Yep, a lot has to do with the size of the program, Juilliard is big enough that the top star/soloist mentality isn’t going to affect the orchestra as much (and especially with the orchestra program, going to one of their concerts is an amazing experience, and for those who love music, a great bargain:).My comments about chamber were reflective of the chamber music program at the pre college level, college is very different, among other things, the kids in the college level program you would hope want to do music, aren’t using it for something else,…and obviously, unlike pre college, they get to form their own ensembles, not have them made up for them. </p>
<p>Sreesi, I don’t know exact numbers for Juilliard or any pre college program on flute, but I am pretty sure you can bank on it being extremely competitive as most admits are.Flutes are like other orchestral instruments, they only take in enough to meet their needs so I would hazard a guess they admit very few (plus it also depends on slots opening up, mainly as kids graduate). You probably could find out, e-mail the pre college office and ask them roughly how many they admit:). Also keep in mind that Juilliard’s program isn’t the only one in NYC, MSM and Mannes have programs as well that might be worthwhile (I can’t speak about flute). One suggestion that is often passed along is that it might be valuable, if she wants to get into a pre college program, to study with a teacher privately at the school…not saying that it is the way to get in (kids get in after studying with outside teachers) or will guarantee to make it easy, but a teacher in the program knows what they are looking for on auditions and in that sense make it easier to focus.</p>
<p>My other suggestion in terms of musical experience is to try and get your kids to concerts as often as possible, also encourage them to listen to music (between the internet music services/radio, Itunes and so forth, there is incredible wealth out there, some free, some costing something…my itunes bill has been pretty large, and hint, 99.5% of it isn’t me). If you live in the NYC area, there is a wealth of concerts available, and while some can be expensive, others are not so expensive. Carnegie Hall offers student tickets I believe, as does the Philharmonic, Juilliard college concerts are generally free (there are occassionally high profile concerts that might have admission cost), the New York Youth Symphony is topnotch, they play carnegie hall 3 times a year and their tickets are 15 bucks…(and for a musical experience, New York Youth Symphony is an incredibly top level program, it takes a large commitment (they rehearse 4 hours every Sunday) but it also gives invaluable orchestral experience playing ‘real’ repertoire (pieces like Ein Heidenleben, Mahler4, Don Juan, etc, plus new commissioned pieces). Even if they don’t become musicians, by listening to the music and attending concerts, they will have it as part of their lives:)</p>
<p>Agreed, musicprnt, I was only chiming in with your already excellent observations! And your further points are also excellent.</p>
<p>Bassdad,</p>
<p>I did not see that post till you pointed it to me. What a wealth of information. Thank you to you too, musicprnt for generously sharing information with me. Yes, I have heard from a lot of sources that Flute is a very competitive instrument. My daughter is also a singer ( Indian Carnatic Vocal) and so she has a beautiful tone but it the technical skills that she needs to master. The teacher she has right now is an excellent teacher ( not from Julliard though!) so lets see how much she progresses in the next year or so.</p>