<p>When I talk with a rising senior about colleges they want to explore, I click on this website. It is the scattergram of a large public high school in the LA area that features SAT scores on one axis, GPA on another axis and within the body of the graph colored crosses representing the GPA/SATs of students who applied at a specific college. Red means the kid didn’t get in; blue means the kid got in; green means the kid got in and is going.</p>
<p>These graphs give a visual representation of what reach/match/and safety schools might be with certain gpa/test score.</p>
<p>Of course, schools look at more than GPA/test scores–but a kid will give me a name of a school he is interested in–we’ll bring it up on the screen and they get a ballpark idea of their chances. Good way for them to realize that a list full of HYP high reaches is like shooting blanks (with a real bullet in there every now and then)…these schools are rejecting 3.9+ and 2400s. </p>
<p>Agree with all others that you should spend most of your time finding a safety school that she will actually like to attend and from there–feel free to shoot for the stars!</p>
<p>FYI My Ds HS (NE boarding school) tells all of their students that the first consideration for applying to any college is that you must meet or exceed the schools median SAT scores … not just within the range … must be at least at the median. From this point, you pick your reaches, possibles and safeties.</p>
<p>I think safety/Yale is not a good dichotomy. Of course, safeties are a must, but it’s also wise to fall in love with schools at several tiers, including the one just below Yale.</p>
<p>I’ve seen too many kids apply to a safety and Ivies. There are so many really glamorous schools in between.</p>
<p>For example, a friend has a daughter at Yale. The second daughter did not have quite the profile to be accepted to Yale. This posed a real difficulty for this family. However, this young woman and her family are now very excited that she will be attending Smith in the Fall. They are impressed by her opportunities in science there.</p>
<p>So safeties, yes, Yale, sure, but there are schools to absolutely love in between.</p>
<p>And studies have shown that most schools have profs from the same programs. </p>
<p>I teach at community college and we have profs from Yale, Columbia, Brown. Really. And my dissertation won best in the country in 1987. Why are we at CC? Not ambitious enough to do the whole conference/publish or perish scene. But we love to teach. Many schools have incredible professors.</p>
<p>Interesting … I have been very impressed with our CC … close to Stanford and great transfer record to top schools. The campus is full of zillions of nationalities … folks trying to get residency so they can attend the UCs.</p>
<p>I think we’re both saying the same thing, but I’m probably not articulating as clearly as mythmom. My point was that what makes a college less selective or a “safety” is not necessarily the quality of education. Smith is a perfect example of an excellent safety (in the context of an applicant with credentials for Yale) with what might be perceived (in the eyes of the individual beholder) as a “fatal flaw”. Smith because it’s all female. Or Grinnell because it’s in the middle of Iowa. Or the honors college of a huge university because it’s part of a 30,000 student megalith. Or an excellent department in an otherwise lackluster college. </p>
<p>Once you’ve established one or two safeties that appeal (my test is that the thought of attending doesn’t give you hives) then you can fill up your application list however you like – the entire ivy league plus MIT and Stanford – but the key is to find that less selective that, while not perfect, suits your needs.</p>
<p>Another addition to the percentage correction – I think Yale has a 50/50 male/female ratio. Which means that whatever you start with for admission percentage gets cut in half no matter what gender you are. So if you start wtih 8+%, and take away % points as you factor in URMs, other hooks, recruited athletes, etc. Then divide the leftover in half to account for gender, and you end up with maybe a 4% chance? Just guessing.</p>
<p>ellemenope, thank you for that link! The data is really fascinating…20 applicants to Claremont McKenna and none were admitted, 13 applicants to MIT and none were admitted, among other surprises. I wish the scattergrams had a special star for a recruited athlete, but maybe you can assume that when you see an acceptance out of the expected range.</p>
<p>No matter how poor the theoretical odds of getting into Yale if you do apply, you will definitely not get in if you don’t apply. If everyone was discouraged by the low acceptance rate… Yale wouldn’t have a freshling class.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and providing advice to me. I was so much at a loss with this whole college admission process and am glad to have found this board. </p>
<p>To answer some of your questions:</p>
<p>(1) Yes, my D has taken a couple SAT IIs. She is not a good test-taker, though. Her Math II is 730 and her Spanish is 680. She is planning to take physics, chemistry or biology in Nov</p>
<p>(2) Yes, she does have a safety school, which is the flagship university in our state. They have a fairly good honors program that she hopes to get into (and I think she has a good chance)</p>
<p>(3) Other less competitive schools (more reach than a safety but not as ultra selective as HYSP) that she is thinking are: NYU and Emory. Would you think these are still too much of a reach for her? How about UCLA or UC Bekerley (we are not from CA)?</p>
<p>I appreciate your suggestion on some of the other schools that she can consider. Some examples provided are Rice, UofChicago, Tufts, but I thought these schools’ competitiveness is right up there as well. Am I wrong?</p>
<p>She likes the sub-urban environment and particularly loves the east coast. Any other schools that you can suggest?</p>
<p>It’s good that your daughter has a safety in my mind–as long as she would be okay attending it if need be! I would call NYU a match. Emory I’m not familiar with enough to feel comfortable commenting. You think right; Rice, Tufts, UChicago are all in the reach or at the very least high match category–after all, less selective than Yale doesn’t say much! UCLA and Berkeley are both extremely competitive schools, even instate and especially out of state. I am not a super-expert in the UCs but I would think that they would definitely be a reach for you D out of state and expensive as well (not sure if that is a concern?). </p>
<p>I am having a little bit of trouble coming up with options for your daughter. For someone interested in NYU, I would probably suggest Boston University, American University, and George Washington University as possible overlaps. If you say Rice and Emory to me, I think of Tulane. Tufts and Johns Hopkins…maybe Carnegie Mellon?</p>
<p>Is she opposed to Liberal Arts Colleges? Many offer a fantastic education at somewhat more reasonable admissions prices (although possibly more selective than you may imagine).</p>
<p>Those scattergrams are interesting, aren’t they? They can also be used to pump up a student–to show them that there are a number of colleges that would love to have them, based on current stats–as well as show them what to expect when applying to super-selectives.</p>
<p>I can hardly wait until last year’s charts come up. Last year was said to be an exceptionally brutal year, at the UCs for example.</p>
<p>NYU, Emory, Rice, U of C, and Tufts are certainly less selective than Yale and Brown, but all are still quite selective. ANy would be a worthy addition to her list, but none is a safety. Re UCB and UCLA: It is hard to get into any of the UCs as a non-resident, and very expensive – around $42,000. State law requires the UCs to give preference first to California residents in the top 12.5% of their high school classes, then to to California residents who are transferring from California community colleges. Out-of-state students are sort of a postscript in admissions. If she loves California, how about USC, a private school in Los Angeles?</p>
<p>Other eastern/urban universities that are less selective are Boston U, U of Rochester (Rochester, NY), American U (DC), and George Washington U (DC). I recommend investing $15 for the premium edition of the U.S. News America’s Best Colleges. Besides the controversial rankings, there is a ton of information about individual schools, including breakdowns on admissions statistics.</p>
<p>Mafool, I’m not a math person (to put it mildly), but if 1000 apply (lol) and roughly half of them are men and half of them are women, and 100 are accepted, 50 men, 50 women, doesn’t that mean that whichever gender you are, your chances of landing a spot are decreased by half? Or is this one of those math quiz questions I always get wrong?</p>
<p>I would agree that American might be a good safety for her. Others to look at: Brandeis and Trinity (matches), Fordham, Tulane, Wellesley, Smith, Case Western, Univ. of Rochester. She might want to look at some state schools with rolling admission, like Wisconsin and Michigan.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like a great kid, and with her credentials should end up with some good choices next year – if she applies to a good range of safeties, matches and reaches. You don’t have to worry about the absence of class rank – most colleges deal with that, since up to half of their applications come from unranked kids. You might want to look at the high school profile or ask the guidance counselor how s/he will describe your daughter’s position in the school. </p>
<p>If Yale is her dream school, she should definitely apply. If we can’t reach for our dreams when we’re 18, when else can we? If she doesn’t get in, she’ll survive, and end up a stronger person because of it. We often grow from our disappointments more than from our successes in life.</p>
<p>One more idea for your D, UNMHKUOP: Barnard College, on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. It’s a women’s college affiliated with and right across the street from Columbia. Barnard and Columbia students can (and do) cross-register for classes. Again, not a safety, but for admissions purposes not Y/S/B either.</p>
![http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2007/YALE.png[/url]](http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/plots/2007/YALE.png%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
