<p>Hi all, I am new here, very nervous now as it is the time of the year and my DD (senior this fall) is thinking very seriously about college app. She is dreaming about going to Yale. She and I went to visit the campus in Oct last year, and she just felt in love with Yale. Getting into Yale is all she is focusing now. While I think it is great that she is so dedicated, I am also extremely worried that she is setting herself up for a big disappointment. I know schools like HYPS are ultra competitive, but after reading various posts in CC, I am getting very scared about all the stories about students with great scores (above 2200), great GPA, and solid ECs get rejected. Honestly, reading posts in CC make me very depressed as it seems nothing is good enough to get into some of those schools. </p>
<p>MY DD is a very good student, goes to a district gifted magnet school, took the most demanding course load possible at school (7 APs taken so far with 3 more planned in senior - she maxed out on the number of APs that are offered at her school, all others are honors). Since she maxed on her schools' AP offering, she is taking 2 classes at a local state university in her senior year (one each for fall and spring). UW GPA is 3.8 (her school doesn't weight or rank due to the rigor of the school, but my calculation would be around 4.6 weighted). SAT I is 2130 (CR: 740, M: 670, W: 720) and thinking to retake to get it at least over 2200. She is also extremely involved in school (President in Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior class, will be President in Student Body senior year, yearbook editor for three years, President of the National Honor Spanish Society, varsity tennis for 2 years, captain of her JV cheerleading team). She also volunteers weekly at a local hosital (about 300 hrs accumulated so far). She started an internship at a local state university earlier this year (~ 10 hours a week during school and 30hrs a week in the summer) and plans to continue when school starts. </p>
<p>I know her "numbers" are not that great with her SAT I below 2200 and no class rank to show. I am wondering if I should steer her away from the HYPS type of schools and get some realistic expectations in. Her other top choices are Brown, JHU, and Stanford. </p>
<p>I would appreciate any advice on this. This is my first time going through the college app process with my kids (with 2 more to go :(). Thanks.</p>
<p>I think you already know the answer. The odds are long for virtually all of these schools, regardless of SAT or class rank or GPA. Unless there is an undeniable “hook”, a lot of money involved, or a minority characteristic that is so desirable, the odds never get above 1 in 10 (and given that there are candidates with each of those three characteristics, likely substantially lower.) </p>
<p>In other words, she may get in, and it is worth applying, but one should always start a college list with the SAFETY - the school she is pretty sure to get in, would enjoy going to, and which you can afford - and then work the rest of the list.</p>
<p>I would say let her go ahead and apply but make sure she realizes that these schools are very competitive and that many students with excellent stats do not get in. Her stats are good so don’t steer her away or she will always wonder whether she could’ve, should’ve.</p>
<p>I agree with what’s been said. Yale is a tough, tough admit. So are Stanford and Brown. JHU is slightly easier, but it’s still no cake walk. If your D adores Yale, then she should certainly apply – I assume she’s considering SCEA. But I would strongly encourage her to build a list of matches and safeties, if she hasn’t done so already. From the short list you gave, it sounds like she wants a medium-sized urban research U. If you give us a little more info, maybe we can help with some ideas. Off the top of my head, has she considered Wash U, Northwestern, Tufts, U of Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, or Boston U?</p>
<p>Grades and SAT (which is already in the range but could be improved) and APs, ECs and other factors put her well in the range for Yale (she also needs SAT IIs)</p>
<p>What does that mean: you are looking at a college that accepts about 10% of its applicants and over 80% who apply are well within its range for admission. The reality is that majority of high achieving applicants get rejected. Look at it like this: there will be about 8 students on paper who will look exactly like your DD and Yale will choose one of them. That is the reality for anyone who applies to Yale and has what you need for Yale. So it is not an issue of discouraging her from applying to Yale, which she should probably do, but, instead, an issue of her knowing and accepting that her chances are about 1 in 8 of being admitted and most others who apply have about the same chance, i.e., there is nothing wrong with her if she is eventually rejected.</p>
<p>Also be aware that her other top choices are not much better. She will have a higher chance at JHU, somewhat higher at Brown, but not any higher with Stanford. Once again, it is not an issue to discourage her from applying because she has what is needed but instead that she understand that being a great applicant does not necessarily mean you will be admitted. </p>
<p>Important is that she also choose some colleges that she likes where her chances of admission are high (safeties). Every year on this board, there is at least one student with stellar stats, who applies to only top colleges, decides safeties are not needed (or incorrectly believes some place like Brown is a safety) and gets rejected by them all.</p>
<p>I agree with the previous posters. There is no guarantee anywhere , even with amazing stats. As a parent of soon to be two college students, I feel like I have heard a lot of happy as well as disappointing stories of my kid’s classmates. We were lucky that they got into their first choices, but some of their friends and classmates were not so lucky.</p>
<p>From what I have read, the next few yrs graduating seniors will still face the same issues in terms of record applicants to any given school.</p>
<p>I would just try to get her interest in some other schools as well as Yale, just in case things don’t go as planned or hoped.
It seems like there were some mighty disappointed students with last yrs applicants here on cc…I am not trying to burst any bubbles though:)</p>
<p>Great responses. To minimize the potential for dissapointment, it is crucial to have realistic expectations. If she knows the facts of the Yale admission stats, it may help to depersonalize this a bit. Could not agree more about creating a list that is balanced with matches and safeties – and encourage her to keep an open mind and have fun researching the many incredible college options. (Who knows…in the process she may find numerous other top-notch schools that she likes even better than Yale.)</p>
<p>Don’t even think about Yale (or Brown or Stanford) until you find at least two schools with admit rates over 50% that she likes and you can afford.</p>
<p>She can’t get in if she doesn’t apply, but I agree with mini and others, the hard part isn’t choosing Yale, the hard part is finding schools that you will be happy to attend if you don’t get into Yale. There are plenty of great schools out there. Her stats and activities certainly make her a possible admit, but the odds are against nearly everyone who applies.</p>
<p>For Yale, I do agree that your D should re-take her SAT I to try to bring up the math portion. From the US News website, the mid-50% Math SAT score range for students who entered Yale in 2006 was 690-790. That means 25% of matriculating students scored below 690, 25% scored over 790. Mid-50% CR was 700-790 and Combined was 1390-1580. </p>
<p>If she’s going to retake the SAT I, when will she take SAT IIs? Remember you can’t take both on the same day.</p>
<p>Help her understand that her “love” is a “crush.” She can get to know and fall in love with any number of schools. Nor is her acceptance or not to a school like Yale any kind of a referendum on her qualifications or worth. More like a lottery.</p>
<p>Of course she should apply to Yale and the other schools on her list. But she needs to identify other schools that meet her academic and financial needs that are very likely to admit her. Consider schools with non binding early appplication and/or rolling admissions. Having an acceptance in hand early in the game is a great stress reliever.</p>
<p>I think your daughter has just as good a chance of getting into Yale as any other qualified applicant. After all, they may refuse 90% of their applicants but they accept 10% of them. And she certainly has 0% chance of acceptance if she doesn’t apply.</p>
<p>As everyone else has said… she needs good safeties. If she likes Yale a lot, help her to identify what it is she likes about Yale, and then look for safeties that meet those likes. For example, if it’s the house system, she might look at Smith, which also has a house system. If it’s the Connecticut location, what about a few of the other schools that are in the same area?</p>
<p>The uber-Ivies (HYP) are even harder to be admitted at than the lesser. I agree with other posters, but want to stress even more emphatically, that with these stats Yale is a long shot.</p>
<p>My S’s stats were slightly higher and he didn’t apply to Yale being quite sure he wouldn’t be accepted.</p>
<p>Of course, there’s no harm in trying, but I would suggest you D dream another dream, too. Safeties, yes, but find other schools that would thrill her as much as Yale.</p>
<p>Find out exactly what she loves about Yale. Gothic architecture? U of Chicago and Bryn Mawr rank right up there. </p>
<p>Of course Yale is Yale – unique and wonderful, but there are other schools that might be just as appealing.</p>
<p>For example, my D feel in love with Columbia. I could see she was going to have similar stats to your D, and I felt that Columbia would be a long shot. We discovered what she loved about it, and found that Barnard was equally suitable for her. She fell in love with Barnard, and in the end did not even apply to Columbia. We’ll never know if she would have been admitted, but she adores her school and never feels that it is a “runner-up.”</p>
<p>There are many workable strategies. </p>
<p>By some fluke my S was admitted to Brown, but by then he was so in love with Williams (which seemed just a tad more realistic) that he decided to stay with it.</p>
<p>BTW: He was rejected from Cornell, Dartmouth and Tufts just to show the strange randomness of the process.</p>
<p>Agree with all of the above good advice. You might also have a heart to heart with your D re: the realities of college admission…or have her read here on CC. I initially found it a bit depressing, too - but unfortunately, it is what it is, and the more informed you and your D are going into this process, potentially the better you’ll both come out on the other end. Good luck!</p>
<p>We went through this 2 years ago, and 3 years ago, my d went to Yale as a rising senior. She attended an admissions session there, and they estimated that of the 200 or so h.s. seniors there that summer about 3 would get in. My d did not apply, but the following spring through facebook and friends discovered only a couple from that group who were admitted, even the ones who did SCEA. </p>
<p>Yale’s admit rate last year was 8.3%. The statistic I’ve heard is that for unhooked applicants the admit rate was around 5%. Yale is a very long shot based on GPA and SAT scores unless D goes to a school where a 3.8 is a result of strong grade deflation, makes her one of the top students in her class and the school perhaps has a feeder relationship. </p>
<p>Agree with mini that I don’t see any true safeties listed so far although your D sounds like a tremendous young woman with lots of leadership.</p>
<p>For some kids, going over to the Y forum and seeing the results thread that lists extensive GPA/SAT/EC/etc for posters and their admissions results could be very enlightening. Depending on what your local culture is, people sometimes don’t get how high the standards are. If this would depress your daughter and shut down the college application process, then I would just focus what she likes about Yale and finding that in other schools so she has lots of matches and safeties in addition to her reach schools.</p>
<p>UNMHKU, I don’t know who’s doing the setting up, you or your daughter, but as others have pointed out, disappointment from Yale is a very real possibility. Advice: she should take the SATs again, put together the best of all possible applications – including excellent essays and recommendations, apply SCEA in November then forgettaboutit. </p>
<p>She – with your guidance – needs to be focusing now on the real and attainable, not wringing hands over the long shots. We all (well, most of us) fall in love with the best and the brightest – whether it’s Stanford, Harvard or Amherst. That’s okay, apply, shoot for the stars.</p>
<p>But we need to have a simultaneous campaign to research, identify, visit and fall in love with a few safeties and sure bets. This is hard work. They are harder to find, harder to understand, harder to love. But they are out there. Usually they have one fatal flaw – the weakness is in your perception – it could be location, gender balance, size, reputation. But once you visit a few of these “hidden jewels” you make an amazingly gratifying discovery: These are good schools. They have smart kids and professors with PhD’s from the most elite universities. They send a lot of graduates to top graduate and professional programs. They are full of happy kids.</p>
<p>Good luck in the search.</p>
<p>PS: Is she able or interested in playing varsity tennis at college? This could be a big plus for her.</p>