<p>I agree with Weenie about being careful to select schools for actual visits. He may very well think that he has seen enough schools after this 5th visit. My son thinks that what is "normal" is to visit Oct./Nov. of senior year, and look at 2-3 schools (if any at all). This is not what we did, but it is what many of his friends have done for their college search.</p>
<p>Invite a good friend to go on the trip too (maybe friends parent too). We did that over Thanksgiving and we saw 3 schools, one that I will go to (my 1st choice - got my acceptance already - yeah!). My friend and I had a blast and mom's did too. It really helped my friend. I had not been accepted to 1st choice when trip was planned but got accepted prior to trip - we went anyway (non-refundable airpline tickets!) and it was great. I think having a friend made it much much better for us. My friend & I were able to talk about each option from our point of view. My friend has since selected one of these schools as a 1st choice (not mine though! - but it is only 1-1/2 hours from where I will be!!). Anyway, that may be a way to get your son to look forward to and plan the trip. At first the trip was just a cool way to go on a trip with a friend. Then the mom's had us plan which schools to visit and next thing I knew my friend (who was uninterested until then) suddenly was planning and thinking etc... it was a really good idea - I am more like your daughters - My 1st choice has been 1st choice for years and I have been working for it since middle school - my friend on the other hand is like your son and she hasn't planned anything and didn't care . . . . and we are seniors so by Thanksgiving of Sr. year she still hadn't even applied to any schools . . . . I never had a "plan B" and my mom was freaking out since I have always had only my 1st choice - and her mom was freaking out since she wasn't even thinking of applications - so the trip was their answer and it worked. Anyway, that's my suggestion from a kid.</p>
<p>The trip is a great idea, GonnaBe!</p>
<p>By the way, where are you gonna be next year?</p>
<p>Yeah - the trip was really good. It really pushed my friend into college planning stuff, it was like a light switch turned on and she went into high gear to plan the trip. She missed CA school deadlines but she didn't want to stay in CA anyway. She applied about a week after our vist. Now she's just waiting for the acceptance (She should get accepted based on what admissions told us when we were there). </p>
<p>I am going to AFA!!! YEAH!!!!</p>
<p>The advice earlier in this thread is great. If you son is Mr. Outdoorsman, there are some particular schools you might want to consider. Some random thoughts for someone who wants to combine real outdoor experiences with college are:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Schools near mountains -- Colorado, New Mexico, Idaho, parts of California (what's so bad about UC Merced?), Oregon, Washington, BC. There are gobs of top-250 schools near mountains and opportunities for camping, sailing, backpacking, climbing, skiing, etc.: U Washington, any UC campus except maybe San Diego, Stanford... Nearly any place in Oregon and Washington is in the "outdoor zone."</p></li>
<li><p>Western Washington University -- "Kayak U," also about a half-hour from a dozen trailheads in the Cascades, and an hour from skiing.</p></li>
<li><p>Evergreen State College -- a young friend of mine spent a semester doing photography while backpacking in the Olympic Mountains for a project there.</p></li>
<li><p>Montana State -- "Powder U," if he wants to ski, this is one of the premier colleges in the US. I would imagine that this also true of any college in the Front Range of the Rockies.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don't know from "outdoors" east of the Rockies. I guess people there camp and hike and stuff, but I have no personal experience.</p>
<p>As for the focus thing -- I've tried to stop worrying. The worst thing that is likely to happen is that my older son will get married as an undergrad and end up taking nine years to finish college. Oh, wait, that was me... Despite that, my life has ended up pretty decent so far.</p>
<p>Mid-year of his senior year, WashDad Jr is sort of paying attention to the whole college thing now. Since he received his scholarship letter to a school which was <em>supposed</em> to be an "easy match," he's practically lost interest in the reach schools which used to be on the top of his list. "I'm in, Dad, why worry?" Sigh.</p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn't send a camper to the woods for university--unless it was an immersive forestry or botany program where he would surely be engaged in the main intellectual task at hand. College is not meant to be a vacation--I tell my boys anyway.</p>
<p>I wouldn't fret so much about the school right now--I would try to find a way to connect him to a vision of himself in the future--as a botanist, horticulturalist, forester--or geologist.</p>
<p>I've recetnly befriended a Geotechnical Phd Engineer--and he has the most fantastic outdoor adventure job with great earning power. I'd recommend that field to any kid who told me they didn't want to be in an office.</p>
<p>See if you can find some professionals in different field to have a talk with your son--even a day's internship might be eye-opening for him.</p>
<p>Finally, don't buy into the 'caresville' veneer. Underneath that cool exterior is probably a surprisingly ambitious and competitive male.</p>
<p>Gonnabe,</p>
<p>I'm a huge fan of service academies (one daughter is at West Point) and know how the dream can start when one is very young. Congratulations to you on achieving your goal. You have some amazing adventures ahead of you. Thank you in advance for the service you will provide.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>You helped me out 2 years ago when my other daughter was looking at architecture schools. Your advice was excellent then as it is now. I'm concerned that if he goes to a school where his passion is just outside his dorm, he'll never get to class. But I want him to be happy and engaged by the school and students who have mutual interests. And it's funny, because the WP daughter is majoring in geospatial information sciences.</p>
<p>WashDad,</p>
<p>I mentioned your list and he is "allowing" me to send for info. I'll take it as a positive sign.</p>
<p>I know someone who was accepted to a five year outdoorsy program that involved 3 years at some university (somewhere in the Carolinas, I think) and 2 years at Duke. I'm sorry that I don't know more about it, but it might be something that would interest your son. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?</p>
<p>Your son is typical as any of the posts indicate. I have one like this myself. Since he has no idea or preference about schools, his list would just be the colleges he knows, mainly from following college football and basketball. Hardly the best choices for him, as he seems to be the sort who would really benefit from a smaller college. And his juices may never start flowing. I know a number of kids who were pretty much "placed" in a college by a parent who orchestrated the whole thing. My oldest was not interested until after all of the college deadlines which did not help things. And join the club of frustrated parents when your son crosses a great fit school off his list because he did not like the tour guide or some other reason that has nothing to do with the school. We all hold our breaths when we look at colleges for our third son, and you never know what off the wall thing that can turn a kid off from a school.</p>
<p>You have some great advice. Some kids will respond to the college trip with a friend route, others will take to the book quietly left in their room.</p>
<p>Try googling outdoor programs and college - if camping is his passion and he enjoys kids, there are several careers that can take off from those interests. There is a college in WV that trains people to lead wilderness trips - the courses include some business (in case you start your own small outfitting business), first aid and wilderness medicine and forestry/botany type courses. When you find some programs that you feel are legit (I would be wary of that) and think would interest him. send him the link with a short note - look at the program in X.</p>
<p>I agree that you have been given some great advice here. Beware, however, that your son's perspective may be very different from your own. Here are some real reasons why my daughter ditched some schools: Website (she hated the website on a few links she was given by others and me...refused to even consider visiting the schools). Buildings and landscaping (sounds ridiculous, but she refused to get out of the car at one school and almost didn't at the other. She didn't like the pink petunias and red brick buildings...and p.s. she then hated the tour guide and the info person). Tour guides (these folks make some kind of impression on most students...DD scratched schools based on lousy tour guides). Info sessions (again..bad info session person translated into "bad school choice". DD personally hated the recent grads who presented info sessions. She said they didn't know enough about the world at large to be presenting at a college info session). Dorms (yes...DD considered this. Her brother, however, did not). Food (bad food, limited choices...we made it our business to eat everywhere we visited). Clothing of the enrolled students (yes...DD noticed, DS did not). Transportation (both DD and DS wanted a school with decent public transportation...and no need for a car). NO REASON (yes...we walked away from some schools with our kids saying "I don't like it." When asked "why?", they had no answer except "I just don't like it."</p>
<p>My niece's husband teaches outdoor education, meaning that he works in an outdoor education center and teaches groups of incoming middle-school students (they come on Monday and leave on Friday, mostly) basic camping and outdoor skills. Your description of your son made me wonder if a program like that might interest him. </p>
<p>If your son isn't ready to think about college, I'd find a few good colleges that have a flexible attitude toward major declaration, a freshman year with a diversity of required courses, and take him to see those few colleges.</p>
<p>Maybe this list will at least get your son's attention--rankings by Outside magazine for best colleges ( "We rank the Top 40 schools where you can hit the books AND the backcountry"):
<a href="http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_college_towns_1.html%5B/url%5D">http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_college_towns_1.html</a>
It actually includes an interesting range of schools. I know the first college that got my S (now a senior with an acceptance to his ED school!) intrigued was Deep Springs. The idea of living on a ranch in the middle of nowhere with a small group of guys was very appealing to him when we first started talking about college, although he did not end up applying. Once you get their attention, sometimes they can start focusing on the basics--to an extent.</p>
<p>My son got real involved in the college picking process after an overnight visit at the regional state U. about 10 miles from our home. When I picked him up he said, "Dad, that will be Plan Z."</p>
<p>How about having boys start kindergarten at age 7, girls at age 5? This would save parents a lot of stress.</p>
<p>Oh that is a great idea--let him tour the school right down the street! That should put the fear of God into him.</p>
<p>Really though, twinmom, the problem may simply be birth order. He's never going to remotely resemble either of his sisters. Your main problem may be that you are too far ahead of yourself. His anticipation skills will be nil next to theirs. He's probably wondering what the panic is all about.</p>
<p>If you would like him to tour four schools, choose twenty schools that you think might represent the range of likelies. Let him read--or read out loud--the student descriptions of the student body (in 'PR 350 Best Colleges). He will easliy reject 16 schools based on those descriptions alone. I know. Ihave done this with my two, two of their male friends and two of the male cousins. Boys are good at knowing what they DON'T like.</p>
<p>Then arrange a tour of the four. If at all possible, skip the official tour and the info sessions (or go without him--the parents dominate those things anyway) and let him meet up on his own with a student you know at that campus--buy them lunch. Also, see if the school will allow him to sit in a class. Pick a class that is right in his interest range. My younger son went to hear a lecture on 'War and Society'. </p>
<p>Prior to that 9 am class, we had to get him up at 6 am to drive up to the school. The moaning was incessant. We arrived on campus at 8 am where he promptly fell sound asleep--and I mean SOUND asleep--on the quad lawn. We handed him a tea, neatly avoided the dagger eyes and shoved him into the building at 8:55 am--fairly certain that he would fall asleep in the class and spoil any chance of admission. I gave my DH the big "Waste of time!" roll of the eyes.</p>
<p>He walked out 90 minutes later and said he had to go the bookstore right away to buy the two texts. Mind you, after he got the books he went right back to moaning about how he didn't need to tour the rest of the campus. He did meet up with a friend of his brother's for lunch where he heard about the food and the social life; ie parties. He read both books in no time flat, however. </p>
<p>This is the life of touring colleges with some junior boys. Some are more focused but most aren't. My oldest started out touring engineering schools--soemthing of a worry for H and I who weren't convinced he had an inner engineer. In New York, we had dinner with a friend who recommended he meet with the Dean of a famous International Relations School. He met him the following week and he came out of that 45 minute meeting like a new man. He's been happily absorbed in history, politics and Mandarin ever since.</p>
<p>My other tip is to limit the number of apps. We chose one super reach, three matches and one true safety. Two of the matches were UK schools and were done with one app.</p>
<p>Take heart twinmom. Rising testosterone raises their ability to focus. Your son should appear more and more capable over the next few years. That last piece of cognitive ability is also a real boost to boys. The best bit of news is that adcoms know boys very well. Most adcom are quite adept at seeing the potential in your seemingly casual boy.</p>
<p>My bet is that your boy will surprise you--not next year maybe--but down the track.</p>
<p>OK, Iwill throw in my 2 cents worth for the west coast. S, now a junior, is at Humboldt State, miles from anywhere and having a great time. He is a geography major and in the process of putting together a project for his senior research thesis, the actual field work to be carried out this summer in Tibet. Your son might look into HSU (our S got instate tuition after 1 year, but is also quite affordable for OOS) and also into a program offered through HSU called The Sierra Institute. S "found" HSU through the Outside magazine article. check it out.</p>
<p>I think you're in the same boat as the mothers of 95% of the boys.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Amen Weenie. My son is also a junior, and, while he has some vague ideas of college, they mainly seem, at this point, to involve playing saxophone in an indie rock band, growing a beard, and sitting around pontificating about his views on life with adoring college girls at his feet. He's a long way from having a firm list of any kind.</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>As for potential majors, he currently leans towards philosophy. But last week he was interested in "something to do with artificial intelligence" and a few months ago his dream was to be a classics major. I learned from my daughter that majors are subject to flux until the day before the deadline to declare one occurs. We spent most of HER college search asking about art and history departments and now it seems she may never take a history course at her college, and is likely to major in psychology, a department we never asked about. :)</p>
<p>So, my advice right now is to just keep the lines of communication open. Talk about what he's liked about high school, what he hasn't liked about high school rather than what he wants in college. Schedule a few college visits - a large school, a small school, a medium sized school and let him explore and try things on for size. Some kids just can't visualize themselves in college - or a career - when high school still seems like the center of their world.</p>
<p>It WILL all work out.</p>
<p>Momoftwins:</p>
<p>Your son sounds a good bit like myself at his age. Camp was the only place I was truly comfortable for most of my childhood. </p>
<p>I'd really like it if he gave the University of Pittsburgh a chance. It may not sound like the most outdoorsy of schools, but you'd be wrong. The Outdoors Club is one of the largest clubs on campus and your son would be able to lead trips with others with his interests. I believe this is a quite unique attribute for an urban university. You get all of the benefits of the city (in ways of internships and cultural activities) and the benefits of being close to nature (as Pittsburgh is in the heart of the Appalachians). </p>
<p>As for a major, let him explore. I'm now a geologist. I think many outdoorsy people go towards geology as you can spend as much as you want to out in nature mapping to your heart's content. You may want to let him know that there are options in the Earth Sciences for employment that would allow him to keep up with his outdoors activities. I find it also helps me appreciate nature more by learning why and how the Earth became what it is today.</p>
<p>If you'd like any specific advice, please don't hesitate to PM me.</p>
<p>Texas A&M has some majors that might appeal to your son such as Rangeland Ecology, Forestry, and Recreation, Parks, & Tourism. Here's a link: <a href="http://www.tamu.edu/home/academics/departments.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.tamu.edu/home/academics/departments.html</a> .</p>