<p>I find myself deeply envious of the couselor support described on cc. A scattergram? There is zero chance that one has ever been seen at my son's school!</p>
<p>The counselors are kind and well meaning, but stretched way too thin (3 for 1100 students) and with no info whatsoever on selective college addmisions.
And, frankly-- I think they look at students like my son and think "He will be fine, I need to focus on the 200 kids that might make college if we push them". </p>
<p>Which I resent. Totally understand (might even make the same call in their shoes), but still resent.</p>
<p>I had one meeting with our son's public HS GC, then e-mail contact as needed. I feel that most GCs are over-worked and do need to focus a lot of attention on the kids needing serious help. Our GC was well-informed and helpful and did a GREAT job getting to know my son so he could write a good rec. Beyond that, I felt I had the time and resources to help my son with the research. I wouldn't expect our GC to put in that kind of time on one student. And I agree with those who said this is such an important decision and huge investment that I wouldn't consider leaving the research to someone else.</p>
<p>I would expect a GC to be generally knowledgable about the flagship state U and other local colleges, but not to have the details at his or her fingertips.</p>
I don't see how "too much information" could ever be a bad thing! Your child will benefit because you will be more aware of more options and also will be savvy about the process - meeting deadines, having a happy-to-go-there safety lined up, etc.</p>
<p>We are blessed because our large suburban public high school has a strong guidance department. The GC both my kids have had is well informed and encourages students to consider out of state and/or under the radar schools (there is even a list of under-applied-to schools). There is a college info session for junior parents at which some reps from college admissions depts. speak. In the spring of junior year private college planning sessions are held with the GC, parents and the student. The school has purchased the Naviance package which provides scattergrams and other data. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, IMO, families have the primary responsibility to know their child, their resources, and their alternatives. If the GC is not strong, it is then so much more critical that the parents get informed and involved. There are plenty of resources available (many books and this site among them).</p>
<p>With a PhD I just assume I have research skills beyond that of most GC's, no disrespect intended. And this is probably because I adore research. I once spent an entire day learning the elements in all the Guerlain perfumes so I could choose for me, D and my mom when my family took a trip to Paris and visited the Guerlain store. We are still wearing the same scents five years later.</p>
<p>I love to peruse college website. Since I teach at a college it is sort of like visiting the factory for me. I am sorry I have no more kids to send. Many of the things I learned I learned in extremelly random ways. Everyone made fun of me, particularlly my own kids! All this knowledge came in handy. For example, most schools accept the Arts Supplements 1/1 with the application; Williams wanted theirs by 12/20, ahead of the application. I would never expect a GC to know that. Lucky I did; S now goes to Williams.</p>
<p>Sec'y at school had son who attended a very good public. The GC made boxes (with beautiful handwriting) for her son of reaches, matches, safeties, those that were state, those that BA/MD programs and those that didn't. I was drooling (from the beauty of the document as well as the thought and time put in.) This public has people whose sole job is college counseling. (Ours, of course, doesn't.) Her S still went to the school I recommended that didn't even appear on the GC's list of 30 candidates and later was featured in Newsweek article of New Ivy or somesuch.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian. I always expect to be the "advisor" for any professional I hire. Heck, I had to tell my obstetrician after a sonogram that no, I didn't think my D needed to be delivered early because of an underdeveloped liver; since H and I are small, my guess was that I was carrying a small baby (I know, it's not rocket science). He had final say, but he did let me carry her to 41 (ugh) weeks. She's perfectly healthy and 5'2" and 105 lbs. (I guess she does have a small stomach, LOL.)</p>
<p>I'm sure you all have comparable stories. Don't mean to toot my own horn. To OP, just revel in your knowledge. Knowledge IS power when it comes to college admissions; I have chosen colleges for ten students now because of friends consulting me. One family wanted some Jewish presence for their son (not my concern). When I casually mentioned how creative and interesting Leon Botstein is they were comfortable sending their S to Bard. I did not have the stellar outcome of those whose children were accepted to all the colleges they applied to, but both kids were accepted at #1 choice with enough money.</p>
<p>Sooooooo, I say, don't be annoyed. Enjoy! Good luck!</p>
<p>Some of the most helpful information came from 'Parents of Juniors' and 'Parents of Seniors' coffee workshops. These were sponsored by a group of lovely Mom's at our old school. They would invite 4-5 veteran parent's with kids in college, each gave a short spiel on what they thought most important, and we then had a lengthy discussion session. The guidance counselors fully supported these, as they are busy. Since we moved to a new school, I have started organizing the same kind of brainstorming workshops. It is amazing how much info can be compiled by a group of parents helping kids with the college search.</p>
<p>
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I don't know what guidance counselors do all day long, every day. While I like ours very much, they don't seem to spend much time with each individual. Of course, this could be partly because they each have a case load of about 400 students, along with other duties. Maybe if we want better counseling services, we need to get more staff into the budget.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In many schools, guidance counselors do everything. In others, duties are split. When I say everything, I mean not only college-related stuff, but also doing class scheduling and attending to disciplinary matters (these can consume most of their time and energy, leaving little for college counseling). In some schools, there are GCs specifically detached to help with college applications. In our old school, GCs were expected to follow students from grade 9 to grade 12. Our GC spent a huge amount of time coming up with a schedule to accommodate my S for all three years. My S entry into high school coincided with a decision to divide up duties between academic guidance and other types of counseling. Until then, GCs had had to deal with everything from what to do about truancy, bullying, teen pregnancy and drugs to sending out transcripts, helping students select reaches, matches and safeties, writing recs, as well as discussing different ways of financing a college education. Our GCs had a caseload of 250; I don't know if they say each and every student individually. They certainly saw mine.</p>
<p>We have dear friends whose D is in the same boat you described, sly_vt, and it is killing me inside. She's a senior, likely the val, ELC in California, maxed out her options. She and her family haven't BEGUN to have the conversations they need to have. Now they are coming to me for advice -- after they put off all the things I suggested they do over the past 12-15 months. </p>
<p>They're convinced my kids will get into better schools than theirs because of our geographic location and that we know how to "work the system." No, I just did the research. I keep telling them to get on CC and see for themselves, but it isn't happening. We've offered to take this delightful young person with us on college tours -- there is always something else going on.</p>
<p>DS1's school isn't having its senior parents meeting for applications, transcripts, etc. until late September. ACK! We <em>did</em> have a meeting with the GC in the spring to review college lists and issues, and to get a sense of what she wanted from DS and us that she can include in her recommendation. That said, the GC recommendation is one page. No exceptions. DS would do all the research on specific schools and programs anyway (and I'd research the other nitty-gritty items, make spreadsheets and keep the calendar), so I would not expect a GC to deal with that times XXX students.</p>
<p>GCs at both of my sons's schools run the entire range of services, and college guidance is probably the "easy part" for many of them. That said, I did not appreciate DS2's GC telling me that DS2 was "lucky" to be struggling in Algebra II last year because she had students who were taking Alg I for the third time. This was right after they tossed us out the door from a meeting requesting that the HS continue the informal accommodations DS2 has had for his LDs since elem school.</p>
<p>I would say that the most useful sources of info I've had have been the angel parents of kids a year ahead of mine who have been through the trenches, know the teachers, know how to deal with the bureaucracy, etc. We've known them and their kids though three schools, and it made my life so much easier.</p>
<p>"I am always amazed by the difference in quality of the rec letters written by private school guidance counselors versus public."</p>
<p>Siliconvalleymom (or anyone else), do you have some hints of what would constitute a great Ivy-level Guidance Counselor recommendation letter? Are there certain phrases which must be used?</p>
<p>A great letter of rec uses lots of specifics and examples illustrating traits that the recommender wants to highlight. As in, "I was very impressed by Jane's determination and focus in English class. Not only did she volunteer to highlight and review all the analyses of Thompson's two major works, but she completed this immense task with the analytical depth of a graduate student. At my urging, she published these in the Journal of Obscure Writings, and was awarded the Newcomer Prize. Her passion for learning was such that she chose to attend classes at the University on English Analysis... yaddah yaddah...</p>
<p>Well, I can understand annoyed, at least. My attended two high schools, one just for senior year. One of the reasons he transfered was that the college counsellor they had was pretty freaking clueless. Her idea of choosing a college was 1. Pick a U. California school to apply to. 2. Pick a Cal State system school to apply to, and 3. Pick a community college to apply to. </p>
<p>I am not kidding. When my son said he was interested in schools out of state, private colleges, etc, she told him he was required to apply to the UC/CSU/community set. She also had a "college prep" course all juniors had to take, that involved reading novels about college outloud, because "reading is a valuable skill you need for college." </p>
<p>Sorry to ask (since I don't have a wealth of info but somehow must obtain it since my son is entering jr year)...is there a good website to check out in order to start learning about the whole financial aid part of the process? It's been so long since I did it myself that I have no current knowledge.</p>
<p>Since I am the OP on this very eye opening thread, I just have to report an update. </p>
<p>At my daughter's high school they encourage seniors to apply early to cut down on last minutes transcript and recomendation chaos. So my daughter did 2 out of her 5 apps the first week of school. 3 weeks later, my daughter's counselor told her she had not sent the transcripts to the 2 colleges because my daughter did not pay the fee to send them. My daughter paid the fee 3 weeks ago when she handed them the transcript requests. Sigh. This adds immeasurably to my anxiety about their competence. It's going to be a long fall.</p>
<p>Vderon: the other fun thing is that the university to which the transcript is sent may deny receiving them- USC received three sets on my D, I saw them go out in the mail from the GC office, but they kept denying they got them! So, you have inefficiencies on both sides of the equation</p>