@dfbdfb Not for job but for colleges. As I mentioned, he wants to do BS/MD and they value it and most importantly, he values it.
@Zinhead He is not interested in art courses and doesn’t have time to take Viola outside of school as he he works after school and on weekends. He is trying to save money for college.
How would a val status factor in at all to college admissions? That status isn’t determined until after apps go out.
@mathyone I recommended looking at the long term picture as adults usually regret the things that they loved but left for more lucrative options. No one regrets not taking enough AP courses or not fighting for rank one.
there is also the chance that being Val might not matter to the school/s he wants to attend, but they might consider that playing the viola might make him a more well-rounded student and a better fit for their school.
Class rank at the end of 11th grade could be a factor in some colleges’ admissions.
Of course, whether rank-grubbing for #1 is worthwhile is an entirely different story. #18 summarized it best.
While you mention that he has never scored less than 95 in his 10 years of school, he also hasn’t taken many APs either. I watched a very intelligent student who had straight A’s until her junior year ( who had taken several APs in the past) tank her GPA by overextending herself with APs trying to pad her resume. It is a possibility , and I guess you need to determine if it’s worth the risk.
I wrote a lot about this on another thread so wont repeat it here (see http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19658081/#Comment_19658081). I think placing grade grubbing over education is a bad idea. It also won’t garner him a better chance at a top college. it is quite the opposite. But that’s not why I think it is such a bad idea.
@WorryHurry411 did you see the thread about the valedictorian who didn’t get accepted into any of the elite colleges? Isn’t that an indicator that it’s not that important? I know it’s just one case, but I get the impression it’s not that uncommon.
Please be aware that some out-of-school youth orchestras are only open to students who participate in the in-school music program. Honors ensembles (all-state, all-county, all-whatever) may also have this requirement. Talented musicians often find honors ensembles to be a very enjoyable experience because they get to be part of a group where everyone can play on their level. It would be a shame to give up that experience if the student wants it.
Are you certain about that? I can’t find anything online to that effect.
I also commented on the thread lostaccount mentioned, here http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19657950/#Comment_19657950
There are many threads on this site by bitter kids who missed being val because after years of gaming the system, someone else gamed it better. And many other bitter vals who didn’t get into the colleges they “earned”. As @Hanna, pointed out, unless there is a large scholarship riding on this tiny title, it’s just not worth worrying about. To be honest, after reading enough posts by aspiring vals on this site, I’ve lost any respect I might have had for the title.
In some school systems, there’s a have-your-cake-and-eat-it option, which is to take some required unweighted courses (such as Health or Technical Education) in summer school. This opens up enough space in the student’s regular school-year schedule for both plenty of APs and fine arts courses. However, (1) you have to think of doing this quite early in high school, and (2) taking those fine arts courses will still dilute your GPA and class rank – not by much, but probably by enough to make it impossible to be valedictorian or salutatorian.
My point is what kind of honor is it to have done something like that to get ahead of the other kid? Is that something to plan your life around and feel good about? I am so glad we don’t have this nonsense in our school district.
Actually, if you read some of the bitter posts by vals (and sals - and kids in the top 10) each spring, they do regret taking the AP course or fighting for the class rank when they are denied admission to their dream school. They rant about giving up friendship, activities they enjoy because they thought they would be rewarded with admission to their dream school(s) or program. I’d rather my child do what she/he truly enjoys and have a memorable childhood/adolescence than grind through high school thinking there’s a guaranteed reward at the end (there isn’t).
I say, let the child do what they truly enjoy. If you live in a state with the val is NOT granted full tuition scholarship, the difference between val and #10 is just the ego stroke.
I find it’s very sad what a child does in now evaluated through a competitive lens. Just because the kid is “not an accomplished player” and/or his orchestra is quite ordinary does not mean orchestra is a meaningless activity to the child. Most likely, he enjoys the other orchestra students, they have fun together and he gets to play his viola. That’s what counts, not the orchestra’s status in competitions or whether or not membership will “earn many points with admission committee”.
Glad our local public schools in Connecticut abolished valedictorian and salutatorians back in the 70s. The now elect senior speakers.
You lost me with the comment on the .002 grade difference, which is really unhealthy.
Like others, I would vote for doing the art and music he likes. This does not preclude taking AP classes if he is interested in the subject.
Basically, don’t do things just for college admissions. A balanced life is good. Ironically, sometimes it’s the kid who follows his own drummer who gets in to the dream school (read Cal Newport’s book). In any case, a student following his interests will end up at a good fit for him or her.
I do understand the financial aspect of this, but grubbing for grades to the thousandth place is really troubling. In fact, I think the school culture needs to change. And universities should stop linking rank and aid!
My district got rid of Val/Sal, ranking at all and don’t weight honors classes or AP’s - yet somehow the kids who should get into the top colleges get into the top colleges. That is because college admissions can tell by the courses they take, their EC’s and other criteria if they are a good candidate for admission.
“In our area, the highly ranked kids are the ones getting into Stanford, Ivies, etc. They don’t get a high rank by taking only a few AP’s, because the fewer AP’s taken, the lower the GPA and rank”
you are mixing up causation and correlation.
The best students will have a better chance of acceptance at top colleges, but they are not stronger applicants BECAUSE of an artificial ranking system that a HS chooses to use. They are just better students!!
. There is no penalty for students who come from HS’s that DONT rank. And no extra “brownie points” are given to students who apply from HS’s that DO rank. Understand??
Stanford and most Ivys DONT care about Rank, because as I mentioned earlier, 50% of ALL applicants who apply to those type of private colleges ARE NOT RANKED. What Stanford , Ivys, etc, DO care about are rigor of the classes taken , the students recalibrated GPA, [ admins do know what classes are hard and easy] and the overall vitality of the student.
An area HS graduates around 15 valedictorians every year. Me thinks it doesn’t mean so much anymore. Let the kid be true to himself, not the college admission’s game (at least to this degree).
"That is because college admissions can tell by the courses they take, their EC’s and other criteria if they are a good candidate for admission. "
Exactly!!