OP - my D has just finished going through this year’s admissions cycle. There are something like 15 AP courses at her HS. When she was a junior she came to me and asked if she could skip AP stat and ap physics as a senior bc she wanted to take art and debate bc “they sounded like more fun.” She is not Val or sal, bc we’ve never emphasized that in our house, thinking that it results in an overly-stressed kid. I don’t think she was hurt by not having these extra APs or not being Val or Sal - she’ll be attending Princeton this fall – she also got into Williams. Also, during a very stressful fall admissions time, I had a happy kid, bc she was doing something she really wanted to do.
Stanford does say that class rank is “very important” in common data set C7:
http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015#admission
Of course this does not necessarily mean that rank-grubbing for #1 versus #2 versus #3 is that big a deal.
This kiddo is in junior HS??? Middle school?? And is worried about being VAL in 12th grade? Does anyone else see a problem here?? Heavens- he needs to chill and take what he likes. That is what will impress the schools.
Stanford’s Common data set ALSO says that only 35% of all applicants submitted rank #'s.
“Percent of total first-time, first-year (freshman) students who submitted high school class rank: 35%”
As I mentioned before, colleges DO recalibrate GPA’s. I’m sure they are doing so in order to be able to “rank” applicants for both internal admissions decisions, as well as for Common Data set reporting requirements.
For instance- this information is broken down by quintile- which is required for all Common Data set submissions.
"Percent who had GPA of 3.75 and higher: 94.51
Percent who had GPA of between 3.50 and 3.74: 4.01
Percent who had GPA between 3.25 and 3.49: 0.91
Percent who had GPA between 3.00 and 3.24: 0.58
Percent who had GPA between 2.50 and 2.99: 0 "
Average high school GPA of all degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students who submitted GPA: 3.95
Is this a form of ranking? yes.
what they dont care about is how a HS ranks a student.
Last year two excellent straight-A/max AP students were not valedictorian (our district defines it as top 1%) because in addition they had taken 4 years of PE (athletes) and did four years of production drama. Although they were not named valedictorian, they did get into more selective schools than the kids that were valedictorian (who had less extracurriculars). The kid who has taken Fine Arts simply for the love of it will have more to talk about on his or her college essays than they kid who didn’t take those classes in order to gain 0.02%.
Taking fine arts, especially if it’s unweighted, will “speak” to adcoms as “love of learning”. If this trait can be emphasized through a line in an essay or in a recommendation, it’ll be a huge plus.
No one in college cares about class rank - it’s a trinket given to teenagers.
A student should have a total of about 6 to 8 AP’s, or equivalent (AICE, IB, Cambridge PreU, Dual Enrollment), preferably including Ap English Language and areas of interest. So, he doesn’t “have to” plan AP Euro. If it fits, good for him. If it doesn’t, no problem. He should make sure he has 5 classes at either the Honors OR AP level each year (so, 4 Honors + 1 AP, or 2 Honors and 3 APs, or any combination); 4 years each of English, Social Science/history, and science; math up to precalculus honors or calculus; foreign language up to level IV or AP; science should include, ideally, each of bio, chem, physics, with potentially 1 AP. Art (Music, art history…) are appreciated. Senior year is the most flexible, since students can take a “fun class” and/or double up in their favorite subject.
“, but there is usually some sweet spot for kids in a school. (For example at our school most kids aiming for schools with single digit acceptance rates (CHYMPS) took 7-9 APs, those applying to selective schools (Tufts, Vassar, Middlebury etc) with something closer to 15-20% acceptance rates probably had 5-8.)”
This idea was debated and debunked at my kids’ private 7-12. The strength of the individual kid’s overall performance, their recommendations and the essays were emphasized as speaking most comprehensively for the student during the college application process.
I’m with @menloparkmom on this one.
I’m confused. He’s a sophomore but you’re also talking about junior high… how in the world do you know what other kid’s GPAs are at other schools? I’m so glad our school doesn’t officially rank. However, they do rank in their way and we can find out if we ask. Let me tell you DDs story. She just finished her college applying. She has 8 AP classes because she enjoys them. She has chorus and orchestra, computer science and Shakespeare. (all unweighted) and horror of horrors… she has a bunch of B grades. I would say her unweighted GPA is in the low 90s. She is ranked somewhere around 16%. Certainly not impressive. However, she also has a GS Gold award where she did hundreds of hours of service. She has helped inner city students on a long term basis. She has amazing recommendations that are not based on her academic performance, but more on her drive and willingness to give. She was accepted in to CMU for SCS. 5% acceptance rate. Her stats aren’t between their 25%-75%. She was told at the accepted student day that most of the kids that applied could do the work, but that the kids sitting there all had something special. I think it is much more important to make yourself stand out. They will see hundreds of Vals. That is not the way to do it.
@waiting2exhale: mathyone’s school did away with honors/accelerated classes. So either students take APs or they take “regular” classes. No middle ground. But in most other cases, you’re correct - taking some AP classes and some honors classes alongside electives in art is not only perfectly fine, but can be better than taking all APs.
Being valedictorian is meaningless.
Many schools have several valedictorians, BTW. 
Does the high school offer classes pass/fail? Then it might not be calculated into their GPA. Our HS district allows that for band and choir classes. Our district offers a lot of honors and AP classes which are weighted and a lot of students in the top of the class take band and or choir pass/fail. They do have to apply for it and the teacher has to approve it. The information about it was buried in the student handbook.
Not going to read all these posts, and I am amazed I am even answering this, but I am hoping somehow you show it to the poor kid’s parenta. Being the Val means diddly squat quite frankly, no one cares who the Val is, the second they leave high school. And the college won’t care, because we all know there are something like 33,000 Vals in the country, not enough room in all the top 20 colleges just for them, and they still need to have soemthing special, and at that level, it doesn’t matter if there is a .02 difference in GPA. Those parents should be ashamed of themselves. Let the kid take what he is interested in. SMH.
“and they still need to have soemthing special, and at that level…”
For my kid, that something special was the arts. We sat and thought about all of the non-academic things he’d done, and what those tended to focus on, and it was definitely his extensive theater background that stood out.
Let them sing, play the strings, dance, or paint their way into presenting that singular ‘something special’ which will come through in their voice when they speak of the things they learned and loved along the way.
IMO, that is the correct answer. In addition, your nephew (and his parents) needs to read [url=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/17560325]this[/url] and view [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVxA0J5g28]this[/url] before making a final decision.
“All colleges recalculate students GPA’s.” Not all, many look at the transcript, see the courses, rigor and grades- ie, the choices and performance, not just a number.
“As I mentioned he is not an accomplished player and his orchestra doesn’t win awards as they are in a very competitive UIL group so this is not going to earn many points with admission committee.” You miss the point here- music/orchestra shows the commitment, the ability to perform to the group’s/the conductor’s expectations and presumed improvement over time. It’s not all about awards. Music is a great EC, in itself. And participating is good.
“As I mentioned, he wants to do BS/MD and they value it and most importantly, he values it.” No, not being val, at least not ime. Instead, the right level of rigor and performance in math/sci classes and some experience in the health field that underscores the claimed interest in medicine (and “helping people.”) It’s not good enough to just say you want to be a doc. Not enough to shadow or do some paid program.
OP, you’re operating on some misunderstanding and it runs a risk he’ll either go the arts direction or the AP/Val path and miss what the top colleges really look for. Menloparkmom quoted a start; the family needs to be looking for what the colleges say they value, what contributes to the mix they like.
Also, don’t forget something CC usually mentions: the GC will rate the kid’s curriculum based on rigor.
I’m curious just how many arts/music/fine arts classes are offered and this kid intends to take. Do they really get in the way of rigor?
And remember, if he’s applying for a BS/MD, the arts classes (and arts ECs) may make him seem rounded, but he’ll also be evaluated on his prep for the intense STEM he says he wants.
Not to throw another wrench in the works, but some colleges do consider class rank, and according to the CDS, some do actually consider it “important”. DS17 has a 3.98 but there are 3 others with 4.0 (as of now), and he won’t be VAL or SAL. He would be if they weighted grades, but they don’t so he won’t. He was disappointed to read that Georgetown (his current top choice) admits 52% of their VALs and 32% of their SALs and 18% of everyone else.
However, having said that, PLEASE let this child pursue fine arts if that’s his passion. DD14 did a few things in HS because it would look good on a college app - but in general followed her passions. We learned better with DS, and he is just following his passions. Overall, I think he will be a stronger candidate that DD because his enthusiasm shows in everything he does. And with a little luck, he will get into the college of his choice and still enjoy his high school years…
My son is among the top students in his class, with a very rigorous course load of all honors and AP, but as his elective he takes what we used to call “shop”. He loves it, and spends what little free time he has on the weekends making things in his home basement lab.
Yes, for 1 min I was tempted to ask if he wanted to squeeze in AP statistics instead, but he already studies 6-7 hours a night, and I realized that would be a huge mistake. He loves it, and he’s good at it, and he still gets A’s in everything else.
It’s who he is and we’ll just have to find him a college that values a smart STEM kid who can make stuff with his hands. (Eager for suggestions there!)
Everything I read, here and elsewhere, says top colleges look for kids who immerse themselves in passions.
Georgetown reports only 28% of freshmen even submitted rank.
I think this is one of the saddest threads I have ever read.
Why doesn’t everyone do an automatic face palm when faced with the idea of choosing classes based on calculating a GPA down to the hundredths or thousandths of a point??? Isn’t that the most absurd thing you have ever heard?
Our district did away with rank a few years ago - the top 20 kids were separated by hundredths of a GPA point. Can you really say #1 and #20 are that much different via their transcripts? It pained administrators to see kids drop out of chorus or music because there was no way to weight those classes as much as AP science or math or English.
So our district just reports deciles. They do name a val and sal at the end of the year, after it’s too late to choose classes based on where one stands.
When did HS become a factory for producing the most qualified (in some eyes) kids for college admissions? What happened to learning and growing and enjoying those 4 years?
@Postmodern depends on what the passions are. A STEM kid (engineering?) who likes to build, great.
This: “And remember, if he’s applying for a BS/MD, the arts classes (and arts ECs) may make him seem rounded, but he’ll also be evaluated on his prep for the intense STEM he says he wants.”