<p>hi, jlauer, you asked about my son's grades. An A (math), the rest B minuses. No honors or AP, but his math is a level above regular. Someone earlier wrote about their S getting good test grades but bad homework grades. That's his problem.</p>
<p>Hi Junebug, I think it was someone else who asked about the grades. But since you posted them, what's up with homework? Is he losing his homework or not doing it?</p>
<p>He says he forgets to turn it in. The first few months of school this year I would randomly check to see what he had for homework and whether he'd done it all. He always had done it, so I do think he is careless about retrieving it and getting it in.</p>
<p>JuneBug,</p>
<p>There is no easy answer. Best I can do is to recommend that he find some activity that he likes. For some, it is sports. For others, it's music. For others, it may be a club, or some artistic interface. I'll bet if he finds a reason to enjoy school, he might become more involved in general. Once involved, he might have more discussions and involvment with teachers and administrators, or other students who are more motivated than he. It might rub off. Don't push in an area that he doesn't like. Our son, though he played about 8 years of baseball outside of school did not want to play baseball at school. He did play frosh football, and that was enough to convince him sporst was not what he wanted. (though he was/is very coordinated and was a very good athlete, sports just didn't "float his boat"). We encouraged him to get involved somewhere, somehow. We told him that colleges look for some type of sustained involvment (in something, anything). He became involved in the Interact Club (associated with Rotary International). He became President - not by running, but by showing up late to the meeting in his junior year. He has flourished ever since. He has grown to become a good strong leader. He also got heavily involved in Service (volunteer hours, dozens of hours each year) at local events. Thanksgiving meals for the poor. Crab feeds for Rotary. Other medical related ailment associations. It was his hook, if you will. He has applied to many top schools (including Stanford). Luckily for him and us, he is very smart, and had very very high test scores. However, even if your boy does not have high test scores, as my son's college counselor at his high school told him, there is no bad college. What you want is a school that is a match for your son. A person can move into very high places from ANY school. They may get there quicker from a very prestigious school. However, I have worked side-by-side with programmers from Stanford and CAL, and they were not as good as those from other schools. Your son can do fine, from any college. Your job: find him somethign that he likes, to help get him interested. He will do fine after that.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>junebug-
my younger s, also a soph, sounds a lot like yours. Has lots of potential, but doesn't seem to have that inner passion for learning-- unless its about poker, billiards, paintball or xbox live. We've run the gamut from placing restrictions on the videogames to rewarding good academic performance. As much as we'd like to, I really don't think that we can instill that drive into them, yet sometimes we think it is our fault that they don't have that intrinsic motivation that we want them to. </p>
<p>My s. does manage to pull decent grades out, usually at the last minute (mostly B's with a few A's, but fortunately, so far, no C's), but it's very stressful on all of us. He isn't very involved in extracurriculars, yet his perception is that he is, because he joined a few clubs (but isn't very active in any of them). The activities he does are mostly social. He feels that whatever he does isn't good enough fo us, so why try. I try to remember to reward the effort, not the outcome. If we reward the effort, then maybe they'll continue to try. </p>
<p>The good news is that something seemed to "click" this semester, and though he still isn't pouring his energy into his work, he seemed to take greater pride in his performance, and on this report card got an equal # of A's and B's, with 2 of the A's in tough classes. That said, he's spent the past 24 hrs practically non-stop on the xbox live. I am going to surgically extricate he and his friend from the basement.</p>
<p>I have come to accept that for whatever reason, he is comfortable with this level of performance. I will continue to push him, but not to the point that he pushes back. If we push them too hard, and they go to challenging colleges, will they rise to the challenge, or will they fall into old patterns when we are not there to supervise? I worry a bit about that. I'd rather he be the top of the middle than the middle of the top. I want him to succeed at his level, not at my level of expectation. In the long run, I suspect that neither of us will be happy with that. I encourage you to continue to try to educate your son as to the benefits of hard work, but unfortunately, what they think is "good enough" probably isn't up to our standards. To them, our standards are to high. To us, theirs are too low. The reality is probably somewhere in between.</p>
<p>My younger s. will hopefully go to a top tier school (I think he is wanting to make the effort for that), but he won't be looking at the schools my older one did. I have to let that be ok. He is a different kid, and I have to love him for who he is. </p>
<p>I extracted him from the basement, and he as agreed to read something... this weeks Newsweek. Well, its a start. Reward, the effort, reward the effort (my mantra).</p>
<p>The one thing I keep reminding myself is that 68% of the population falls in the Average range, and it is these people who hold many important positions in business and industry. There is a good book on "Emotional Intelligence" (by Stein and Book), that speaks to the importance of social skills and people/interpersonal skills in the prediction of success. It talks about the difference between book smarts and street smarts, and reminds us that it typically wasn't the valedictorian of our HS class that was the successful one at the class reunion. So, maybe our boys will blossom at some point and see the importance of academics and interpersonal success. Take a look at the "The EQ Edge" book that I mentioned. I think it'll help you feel better about your son.</p>
<p>Junebug: There is a book, "The Organized Student" that addresses the homework problem. The author, an educator, noticed how disorganized some kids are: they do their homework and then don't turn it in; usually because they don't remember where they put it or they left it at home. When the author's own son reached middle school, he too was "forgetting" to turn in homework -- because he couldn't find it. All this motivated her to develop solutions. Her solutions turned into a new career -- organizing students. After much success, she was motivated to write the book so that she could help millions and not just her clients. The book is very insightful. One of the best points that the author makes is that kids today have to manage a lot more paper than we EVER had to (because computers, printers and xerox machines make it VERY easy for schools and teachers to create mounds of paper.)</p>
<p>jlauer95 - I have that book right here to the left of my computer. It was really written for students younger than high school age BUT if your S or D never learned how to organize, I recommend it as well. Son #2 was diagnosed with ADHD and "executive function" disorder in middle school. He is very bright, has a very high IQ, etc. but cannot organize the information he learns, or strategize systems for projects, papers, daily homework return, etc. He is in all honors classes, some by the skin of his teeth due to the organizational issues, and no teacher or team is willing to help him with the organizational issues so it falls to me. Oh, what fun! I have to admit that I used this book with my son. It has specific systems to set up and the few I did worked out quite well. It does a great job of making Mom realize how much more kids have to deal with than we did, as jlauer95 noted. Plus, my son was really interested in the "official" recommendations. My son was highly impressed when we reorganized his locker. I bought him the shelves, the extra pencils, etc. and he installed everything and gave everything a place, at least while I was standing there. Unfortunately, following through with all of these recommendations is very difficult given all of our schedules and this age. This book also recommends that somewhere along the process you organize his bedroom as well. As a working Mom, I have to admit that I realize that we have not emphasized or necessarily "taught" organization much either. </p>
<p>Junebug. I work at a pediatric evaluation center in a hospital. In my experience, many schools provide an educational evaluation for the purpose of identifying kids they are required by law to provide services for. Typically you would contact the special ed director ofyour town for a CORE evaluation. Some schools only give a few tests as evaluations are very time consuming. If your school uses only a few measure of competency you may want to consider a pediatric neuropsych evaluation. A neuropsychologist will look at your child's IQ (in many areas), current achievement levels, learning style, organizational styles abilities, how he/she strategizes, your child's areas of strength and weakness, your child's perception of the problems, emotional stability, your input, etc. and come up with impressions and recommenations unique for your child. I have found the NP evaluations to be extremely helpful for all of the kids we see in a team format. They will tease out the subtle issues that kids who are getting by, or even getty Bs when they could be getting As seem to have. The data we received for our own son was so helpful to us - he IS the class clown, he does his homeowkr and never turns it in, he tells detailed summaries of what he has learned but writes two sentences for homework......now I understand why. More importantly, I am less likely to get annoyed with him because he doesn't do things the way I want them done as I understand that he can't - or that it is going to be harder for him. The testing can take several hours if not two days and is often not covered by insurance. Some schools employe neuropsychologists but some do not. </p>
<p>I agree with the woman who said it's my way or the highway (sort of). We learned from being diplomatic with son #1 that diplomacy only works if each country has equal developmental abilities and equal investment in the outcome. Most 14 to 16 year old kids are not equal in these very emotional areas - they can't see the forest for the trees. Honestly, my son is more interested in a zit that showed up today than anything are distant as next week's paper, and, whoa, college in 3 years!</p>
<p>Rileydog, thank you for the most important post on this entire thread. I hope the OP heeds your suggesting to have the child neuropsych tested. This has been AMAZINGLY helpful for many of my friend's very bright, but disorganized kids.</p>
<p>I agree with quiltguru- Rileydog's post is very important. Every problem has a solution- some may take much longer to figure out than others. Never give up! You MUST win! If you model the behavior that you will do whatever it takes for you child to be the best they can be, they will learn to do them same, no matter how hard it is, no matter what the odds are. Get information from different experts, try different techniques, try different medicines, try different consequences, try different schools, but never never give up. You also have to be realistic as to what is the best for your child, not what is the best for you. Parenting is a thankless job and you will not see immediate rewards. It will take years before you know if you did the right thing. But if you never give up no matter how much of a pain they are, the rewards will come! Good Luck to all of us!</p>
<p>I cannot agree more with Rileydog, quiltguru and SBmomof3.</p>
<p>A comprehensive neuropsych evaluation is invaluable. That is what I do for a living! When Junebug described the lack of follow-through, the "class clown" behavior, etc, it certainly rang of issues with attention and initiation. However, her question was how to motivate her son, so I took a different approach in my response. </p>
<p>The role of a school psychologist is very different from a private psychologist or neuropsychologist. The school psychologist's role is essentially that of a gatekeeper. They test a student to see if they qualify for services. They do not diagnose, and their recommendations are likely to be focused mainly on school-based interventions. Rileydog has done a wonderful job describing the information you can get from a private evaluation. Of course I would strongly encourage anyone with concerns about their child's academic performance and cognitive functioning to get a comprehensive neuropsych evaluation.</p>
<p>Ironically, my younger s. happened to read my post above (#85), as apparently I'd left it on the computer screen. This led to a very helpful conversation last night about who he is and how he differs from his older brother. It also gave us an opportunity to talk about his psych. evaluation, and a discussion of his motor output difficulties (dysgraphia) and his attentional issues. It was a very helpful conversation. </p>
<p>There have been several previous discussions about the benefits of psych and neuropsych evaluations on CC. I'll see if I can find then in the history . If so, I'll post the links.</p>
<p>Junebug: Riley has good input. The book, "The Organized Student" is good for any age. The author just happened to notice that the probs that kids have often BEGIN in middle school -- when kids begin to have different teachers for different classes and have to change rooms and there is a huge increase in paper and homework to manage. The solutions that she gives works for all ages -- she even mentions that most adults will read her book and learn ways to improve their lives. She also addresses the problem of "resistance" -- when a student resists trying the new techniques. When I used this book with my son, I offered a "reward" for trying each new technique. The trick is to get the child to do each new technique repeatedly so it becomes a personal habit. That is where the "reward" came in. The book also mentions that a parent can appeal to the child by pointing out how much personal and family stress will be reduced once these techniques have been embraced.</p>
<p>Here are links to some of the pst discussions about psych/neuropsych testing:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=16676%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=16676</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=59840%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=59840</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=30734%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=30734</a></p>
<p>my name is Center of reconciliatory intellegence and brain re-imagery</p>