<p>Be certain you have absolute safeties you like and can afford. “substantial disadvantage relative to the engineering applicant pool.” refers to the fact that many kids wanting engineering at an Ivy or other highly competitive engineering program have already been taking steps to advance their prep in math. Take a hard look at how each school phrases any requirements. We wish you the best, but “Eyes wide open.” Data quoted Cornell, how they answer, for engineering. That’s relevant to this thread- a good example.</p>
<p>@PMoney1, at our school, kids who aren’t on track to take calculus in high school would double up on math classes if they were aiming for a highly selective college or STEM program. Others take summer school or find other ways to cover the material. You may find colleges that are sympathetic to your middle school placement, but you should be aware that there are many ways to get around a middle school placement, many other students will have accomplished this, and it’s possible that some programs may feel that you didn’t try hard enough.</p>
<p>@mathyone I completely agree. I didn’t try hard enough. I wish I knew now what I knew then. Oh, well lesson learned.</p>
<p>Lol I meant I wish I knew then what I know now.</p>
<p>I’m very tired</p>
<p>@mathyone Hopefully the fact that I tried to accelerate my math track and the fact that it was too late to double up in math once I knew what I wanted to do is enough for colleges to let it slide.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The college courses and grades will likely be seen as the most relevant part of his academic record.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While some of the most elitist schools with respect to admissions require or almost-require calculus in high school, many top quality schools for engineering do not – they structure their curricula with the expectation that you are ready for calculus at the minimum, not that you have had calculus.</p>
<p>“if you tried to enroll in a Calculus class at your community college and it was full I don’t think they can hold that against you.”</p>
<p>Sure they can – they can say that it filled up because you signed up too late. People who signed up earlier got in. That doesn’t mean they WILL hold it against you, but they CAN. I agree with the advice not to fret about what’s already set in stone, and just make sure you have plenty of safeties. When it comes to engineering, any accredited program will be rigorous and prepare you for professional challenges.</p>
<p>@Hanna yes if you had checked my later posts I corrected myself and said that they might hold it against me, but I hope that they will not.</p>
<p>pmoney, it’s not that they will exactly 'hold it against you" it’s that the engineering program is trying to select a class of individuals who are most likely to be successful in the engineering program…and calculus can be hard for a lot of students…and difficulty with calculus flows over into so many of the other classes in the program…and can have really bad results. The schools will look at your transcript, and they will look at your test scores, in assessing how likely you are to do well. Do you have a high score in SAT or ACT math sections?</p>
<p>A good number of students who did take calculus in high school, and even did well in it, often elect not to take the AP credits and choose to take the university calculus course once they arrive on campus. They want to ensure that they will have a solid foundation for all of the classes to come. These students will be in class with you, and you will be competing against them. </p>
<p>Right now you should try hard to find a calculus class. Are you on the wait list at the community college? Are there any other community colleges nearby that you could try? Could you take pre-calc on line this summer, and then have the high school place you in to calculus this fall. It’s not too late, especially if the class is self-paced and you are determined. Or can you find an online calculus class, and a good tutor to work with you?</p>
<p>The CC class being full can easily be held against you - if you had registered earlier you would have gotten in. You still have another year until college. There are still many options. </p>
<p>For example, you can self study for the AP exam or you can take CC Calculus in the fall.</p>
<p>Not only will you be at a severe disadvantage during admissions, but should you get in you will be at a sever disadvantage during course selection. You can’t take Calc 2, you can’t take Physics I, etc.</p>
<p>Contrary to the last few posts, it is not essential to take calculus in high school for a prospective engineering major, unless one is aiming for some of the most elitist-admission schools (MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, WUStL, some Ivy League schools). Most of the “top engineering schools” show course plans starting with calculus 1. Presumably, they realize that a 6th-8th grade math placement decision should not shut students out of studying engineering (or other math-intensive subjects).</p>
<p>However, students without calculus in high school must have a strong knowledge of algebra, geometry, and trigonometry to succeed in calculus in college. Perhaps the advantage that math-accelerated students have is that, by taking calculus while in high school, they can see what calculus involves, and can re-evaluate their prospective major and college list if high school calculus is not something that they like or is a struggle for them.</p>
<p>My older son had AB and BC Calculus in high school before going to college in engineering. My younger son did not take calculus in high school despite being on track to do so . He just didn’t want to. But he got all A’s in calculus and differential equations once he got to college. So, although probably a good idea, I agree with ucbalumnus that it is probably not essential( but the Ivy League schools, MIT, etc. probably would expect it.) . </p>
<p>You know, for engineering, there are kids who have the mindset, the team project experience (eg, robotics, sometimes even math/sci team competition,) who may have some outside engineering-related experiences, who’ve sailed through AP sciences- and if they didn’t get to AP calc, you still have a strong sense they will tackle college calculus and the rest of engineering as they did the other challenges, not be surprised. Sometimes, even if they didn’t get all or some of that during hs, something comes through in the app that says they have proven they know how to put their head down, dig in and meet standards, are good problem solvers and resilient. “He’ll know what to do.”</p>
<p>Then you get kids who don’t present this picture. A lot of times, we look at the admit as the hurdle, a raw chance-me for an admit- but they still have to be able to manage the college experience. Adcoms know that. The concern is that the poster here who wants engineering, but will end with pre-calc, has some competitive schools on his list, with stats and a curriculum (and limited ECs shown,) that will make at least several of these, if not most, reaches. He needs safeties he can afford. He needs to find the kind of program Ucb talks about, where time is on his side.</p>
<p>
True, but to be fair the title of the thread is “Any kids getting into Ivies…”</p>
<p>My daughter will be a freshman at Yale in September. She is not a STEM student, she is a Classics, Literature, English, History type. She graduated from one of the top independent schools in Washington, DC which feeds a lot of kids into the Ivies. When she was doing her senior year schedule, her counselors told her that she did not need to take Physics or Calculus for what she knew she wanted to do in college. She ended up taking AP Stats and Physiology. It truly depends on the child, what they want to major in, the rigor of their classes, etc. It also depends on the school. I see a lot of kids that get into the Ivies with 4.0 and better GPAs. But her schools profile states that in the schools 45 year history, only about 15 kids have ever graduated with a 4.0. They also do not have a lot of AP class offerings, they believe their regular classes are rigorous enough. So, when you are trying to compare between schools and individual kids, it is really hard.</p>
<p>Now if they are avoiding it for some reason that the ad com can’t fathom, then it may count against them because it may be interpreted as not taking the most rigorous courseload available. Just my thoughts.</p>