Anyone else find this all unreasonable?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Want to begin by saying that I would describe my daughter as a fairly mature 19-year old, focused pre-med student, who is considerate of others, maybe to a fault.</p>

<p>Here's the story...Freshman year daughter attends state u., where her dorm room is cooridor-style, shared with one other girl. They get along really well at first, until roommate starts drinking Thurs-Sun on a regular basis. Roommate comes in late at night, drunk, noisy, turning on lights and music, and occasionally bringing someone along with her. Daughter tries to tolerate it best she can, as she really likes her and wants to get along. Roommate then pledges sorority, and the drinking problem increases. Daughter then discusses her drinking and behavior with her, and it gets a little better till year end, but not much. </p>

<p>Sophmore year, daughter transfers to Ivy university, her first choice from which she was deferred as a freshman. She is placed in a suite, with three other girls. Two bedrooms, small common room in between, very thin walls. Her roommate spends most of her free time in their bedroom, skyping (sp?) family and boyfriend, loudly, and in her native language, no less (pakistani?). Daughter tries to speak with her about it, but it doesn't go well, so daughter spends majority of her waking hours elsewhere, and basically returns to the room only to sleep.</p>

<p>October of the sophmore year, daughter and two of the other roommates are away for the weekend (not together, but all away at different places). Apparently, the one remaining roommate in the suite has a party Saturday night. Daughter returns Sunday about 4 p.m. to an empty suite. Goes into her bedroom to find her blankets, sheets, and mattress pad soaked with urine, right down to the mattress. She is furious and, of course, we get the phone call. We tell her to phone the roommate who had not been away and talk to her about it. Roommates admits the party, claims she doesn't know who is responsible, and apologizes. Doesn't offer to clean the mess or buy new bedding though, which infuriates daughter further. We tell daughter to go buy new bedding, and we will pay for it ($150.). She says she wants to move out, between the skyping in foreign language 24/7 and the partying/urine she has had it. We tell her to take a week, lots of deep breaths, and see if anything else is available on campus.</p>

<p>She finds out the only single (I told her I thought a single was a good idea at this point, she agreed) is about a 20-minute walk off campus. And, because it is a single, there is a surcharge of $1000. I called housing to try and get it waived under the circumstances, but no luck. She wants to move, and so we go up in early Nov and move her to her single. I spend the rest of her sophmore year worrying about her walking back and forth to campus late at night, after studying late or working at her campus job. She survives, most times finds a bus schedule that works, but it wasn't easy worrying about her getting back and forth all the time. Total cost about $1200 and lots of worry/unnecessary stress...</p>

<p>This year, as a junior, she is extremely exicited about moving into her first apartment with three other girls. Two are good friends, one she had not met. Hubby and I move her in about 10 days ago. Two of the three roommates had already moved in when we arrived--the one she hadn't met, and one good friend. After driving the 3.5 hours to get there and moving her in, Hubby and I are tired. There are no hotel rooms available in the area, closest is $150/night, and 40 miles away. We discuss staying in the apartment, daughter offers to sleep on the couch, and give dad and I her single bed. We discuss that we shouldn't impose on roommates like that...apartment is small, etc., so we are all in agreement, and we drive the 40 miles to hotel, help daughter with a few things the following morning and head home.</p>

<p>Two days later last roommate (best friend) arrives with her mother to move in. Guess what? Mom stays a week! A WEEK, arriving on Sunday, classes start Wednesday, and she stays until the following Saturday. She rearranges furniture while the girls are out, and makes herself at home. Daughter is upset because 1) apartment is tiny, and now there's 5 of them; 2) daughter got one-hour notice, by text, that mom was arriving and staying a week; 3) mom rearranged the apartment while they were at class; and probably most importantly 4) daughter was looking forward to shopping and decorating, etc. with friends once all had arrived. I can't tell you how many times over the summer I offered to buy something for the apartment, etc., and daughter's response was, "Thanks, but no, mom, we're going to do it together when we all get there."</p>

<p>So, the week goes by with mom, classes start and yesterday mom heads home finally. Daughter breathes sigh of relief. I get up this morning to the following text: "Now her boyfriend is coming for a week."</p>

<p>Oh my God, what is wrong with people? Is it me?</p>

2

<p>Some people are just inconsiderate. She needs to have the talk with this best friend. Let her own the issue. You can be a shoulder or sounding board but it’s hers to fix (if possible).</p>

3

<p>My response was, “well, you really need to have the conversation regarding what is acceptable and what is not.” I guess I feel her pain because I dislike, even at my age, to have conversations about what should be common courtesy. Unless I am wrong about what really should be common courtesy? I don’t even know anymore.</p>

4

<p>I really don’t think you are unreasonable, but I agree with Erin’s Dad that it has to be her problem to fix. A meeting of the 4 seems necessary. If there are other things they need to work out, this could just be one of the topics. Good Luck.</p>

5

<p>This is a very good lesson for your daughter to learn. She needs to learn to stand up for her rights. Before she goes into any contract with people, she should raise any issue that’s important to her. At the same time, not every issue is a big deal, and when she is dealing with people (roommate) she needs to pick her battles.</p>

<p>It is unreasonable that her roommate’s mom stayed for a week, even one night is too long. Many schools have rules about how long a guest could stay for a very good reason (I know your daughter is living off campust now). With boyfriends, it’s a different matter. In college people frequently have their BF stay over. One’s of D1’s roommate did last year, but he stayed in the roommate’s room and it didn’t bother D1.</p>

<p>Let your D figure out how big of an issue is to have the BF there, have her set up some ground rules with her roommate(s).</p>

6

<p>She is a junior in college - most likely over 21 and absolutely needs to handle these things herself. I don’t get the mom staying for a week, but with how involved parents are, it doesnt really surprise me, but to stay completely quiet about it except for you? That’s wrong of your daughter. They need to have a meeting to discuss all of these things: cleaning, overnight guests (let alone a week of them), food, general living courtesy. </p>

<p>But I have to ask… would it have been better if old room mate had skyped in English? Seems to me the language used shouldn’t matter at all.</p>

7

<p>Two things strike me.</p>

<p>Firstly, your poor D has had very bad luck in room mates. Most people do not have to put up with this level of annoyance from so many different apparently clueless people.</p>

<p>Secondly, I think that your D must not be doing a good job of discussing mutual expectations, making HER expectations clear, and/or asserting herself. For example, re the rearranging mom–who probably thought she was doing them a favor, although staying a week in those circumstances boggles my mind–if your D was counting on fixing up the apartment as a group, was this her private desire or a vague idea expressed months ago, or did they all, as a group, discuss and decide upon it? If the latter, did anyone speak to the friend and say, “I’m sure your mom thinks she’s helping us, but we were all looking forward to doing this as a group, remember?” At which point it would be the friend’s job to speak to her mom. In any case, it seems to me that it is time for your D and her apartment mates to sit down and have a formal discussion of mutual expectations. That is the only way to avoid misunderstanding in the future. Long term guests in a small apartment is one of the things they should discuss.</p>

<p>Regarding the urinating on the bedding: since the responsible party was not forthcoming, your D should have ASKED that the girl who was responsible for the party immediately wash all of the bedding and clean the mattress–I hope it was the waterproof variety!–with something that would eradicate odor and germs.</p>

<p>With the skyping roomie, your D should have been firm in working out a schedule of when the roomie would skype. She needed to explain to the roomie that she was an equal partner in the room and also had needs for privacy and quiet. Your D would I’m sure have been very understanding to a fault that different time zones and homesickness should be taken into consideration. If the roomie refused to cooperate, she should have taken it up with the RA or the head of house or the housing office or whomever was next up the line. (If your D was a different type of person, she could have retaliated by recruiting a couple of friend to come to the room and hold a noisy card game while recalcitrant roomiw was skyping. :smiley: Perhaps then the skyper would have gotten the message, instead of learning that she could just walk all over your D.)</p>

<p>I urge you to urge her to act now before this gets completely out of hand. She needs to remember that others are not psychic, and while it might seem obvious to HER that something is an imposition, the very same thing might not bother someone else at all. They need to talk about it.</p>

8

<p>Another one in the camp of your daughter needs to work this out for her self. From your post it sounds like she does not like to make waves or confront people so she vents it out all on you. It is good that you are there for her to get her vent off, but it does nothing in helping her learn how to stand up and advoate for herself. </p>

<p>I think some of these issues needed to be resolved before your daughter first agreed to move in with roommates. She should have asked about boyfriends, sleeping over, partying, etc. It sounds like they should have a house meeting and set up a few house keeping rules.</p>

9

<p>I realize these are all learning experiences for her, and hope that what she will gain from all this roommate misery is the ability to speak up for herself maturely and constructively. She is actually 19, so she is young for a junior in college. She tends to hold her feelings in, and I am trying to help her see that it is okay to express them and that she is not being unreasonable.</p>

<p>Modadunn, I mentioned the skyping in a foreign language I guess because she would switch back and forth between languages as she was speaking, spoke very loudly, and there was no place to get away from it in the suite. It was just very annoying, but daughter was fine staying there, just spent most of her time out. That was until she returned that Sunday afternoon. That was just disgusting.</p>

<p>I would not be tolerating any of these behaviors myself at my age, let alone at 19. But, I guess that was the reason for my post. Sometimes I feel like the crazy one because I don’t get why people think this is all okay…</p>

<p>Not huge deals or the end of the world, don’t misunderstand. But, unacceptable, nonetheless.</p>

10

<p>You are all so right, and I couldn’t agree more. I am trying my best to get her to have a sit-down discussion…when I received the text this morning about the boyfriend arriving for a week, my text back was “Did you have that conversation yet about what you all need to agree is acceptable–cleaning, overnight guests, groceries, etc. If not, I would suggest you make time to do that TODAY.” Then, trying to make her smile, I sent another which said, “You could tell her that Dad and I plan on taking our two-week vacation to your apartment next week.” See how that goes over. lol</p>

11

<p>Good luck to you! I had an apartment-mate in college who claimed before moving in that she didn’t smoke (much) and that her BF was too busy to visit “hardly ever;” of course afterwards we found she smoked constantly and that he had lost his job and spent virtually all of his time in our apartment, watching TV and playing his electric guitar. So I know things can go awry.</p>

<p>However, I did want to comment on the idea of “common courtesy.” The problem with this concept is that it implies an unspoken commonality in what is right and wrong, and that obviously isn’t true. Could someone believe it is the norm in college to party Thu-Sun and have guys sleep in? Or that “off-duty” time is time to chat with family? Or that parties are messy and that’s just how it goes? Or that crashing with family and friends for however long is to be expected? Relying on “common courtesy” is sadly a mistake, and probably has been for a long time. It relies on assumptions that clearly aren’t coming true for your D. I don’t agree with any of those behaviors but talking about things upfront is really crucial because you can’t - and it isn’t fair to - expect other people to agree automatically with what you think is important, or, worse, make them guess.</p>

<p>I agree that taking a stand for yourself is important. My D recently moved into a house with people for her last year of college. In deciding whom to live with and where to live, she sadly had to do some damage to some friendships when she realized that the people she’d always talked about living with have very different lifestyles than she does, and that she would have been railroaded (democratically) into moving into a house that was in poor condition and way too far from campus for her taste, even though in their minds it was a better choice because it was cheaper. Also she knew from the previous year that they do like to party and live with a much looser structure than she does - again, in their minds a nice way to live, but doesn’t work for her. </p>

<p>So she then spent weeks finding quiet, studious people like her to live with, even though she wasn’t as friendly with them, because she knew what she needed. There was a rough period when my D informed her other friends that she wasn’t living with them after all. And she realized that having the lifestyle she needed was more important than whether they were mad at her. They’re coming back together now - and they’re probably as glad they’re not living with her and she is about not living with them.</p>

<p>This isn’t the last time your D will have to negotiate with people about how to live (or work, etc.). She might as well get some more practice in how to stand up for what she wants, and also learn how to let other people do what they want without giving up everything that matters to her or feeling resentful.</p>

<p>I survived my year with the smoker and the electric-guitar-playing BF. I also learned from my roommates the ways in which I was thoughtless and rigid sometimes, as we all are.</p>

12

<p>The only time we really need to deal with roommates is in college, and that is not easy. We all come from different family background, and our expectations are different because of our background. It is especially the case at an Ivy type of school where there are more international students. The only thing we could do sometimes is to just give our kids support and sympathic ear.</p>

<p>Next year D1 will need to find an apartment in a big city. She is thinking hard about whether to have a roommate, if so, who? She really doesn’t want to have to deal with roommate problem when she is working.</p>

13

<p>I agree with the above opinions that she needs to address these herself. If you think objectively about it, it can really be a unique opportunity to develop and practice appropriate assertiveness with others. Here is the progression that I’d recommend, though at this point the OP’s daughter is probably well down this list:</p>

<p>1 - One-on-one talk - “Let’s both understand what we need from one another; when you do X it affects me in Y ways. I’d like for you to do Z instead. What can I do to better respect your needs and rights?”</p>

<p>2 - “We had this agreement and now I feel that you didn’t understand. I hope it’s a misunderstanding and not an indication that you just don’t care about respecting my rights.”</p>

<p>3 - “This has gone far enough. We either need to create a written and signed agreement, or we need to see the Hall Director and ask that s/he serve as a mediator.”</p>

<p>4 - “This is my property that you used and damaged without my permission. I’ll expect you to pay me $X for it by Thursday.” (When Friday comes without payment) “I need for you to pay me for the damaged property right now, or I’ll have to bring vandalism charges against you before the university judicial board.”</p>

<p>5 - Make an appointment with the Dean of Students and / or file judicial charges.</p>

14

<p>The greatest luxury for a young adult starting out is affording your OWN apartment.</p>

15

<p>Agreed. Some of it looks like it’s all bad luck, some of it is your D not having learned how to stand for her rights and make her expectations clear with her roommates.</p>

<p>Been there done that. Roommate’s BF stayed for 2-3 weeks b/c they’re from Austria. Luckily, we liked him a lot. But it became clear to him (as a very tall guy) that there just isn’t <em>that</em> much room in our tiny apartment. Not to mention that other roommate was getting involved in a steady relationship so… the last visit was consistently 5 of us in the apartment! I think I either stayed in my room or studied in a coffee shop. It’s hard to argue about boyfriends, especially if they’re coming from overseas, but one just has to hope that he’s at least considerate.</p>

<p>Mothers? I say no more than 2-3 nights. As nice our mothers are to us, nobody all around really wants their mother to stay for long- it’s a psychological thing I think, because we’re just becoming independent. And when mothers come, it can be easy to look dependent… Fortunately my mother and roommates’ mothers have been kind enough to stay in our rooms that it’s almost a little bizarre to see them come out in their pajamas! :)</p>

<p>When the space is small like that, communication IS the key. Your D and her roommates should always try to be open with each other because emotions can be felt more easily in small spaces. Have a whiteboard on the fridge for notes- it worked like a charm for us. Always keep everyone in the loop- if you tell one person something, make sure everyone knows about it. No secrets. They need to have a meeting to cover all the basic issues. And just to point out- because the apartment’s small, they’ll need to clean consistently.</p>

16

<p>I really think it is inappropriate for parents to stay with their kids when they are in college, unless a kid has his/her own apartment. If nothing else, other roommate(s) would talk about it with other people, and it’s never in a favorable way. Think twice before you put your kid in that position.</p>

17

<p>Actually college isn’t the only time that we have to learn to live with roommates. I made many mistakes when I was first married (at the age or 38) because I didn’t want to upset my new husband. After 20+ years, and some therapy, I have learned that speaking up at the beginning could have avoided many problems down the line. If your D can learn how to effectively deal with these situations now, it might be the most important thing that she learns in college.</p>

18

<p>My daughter who loves her BFFs like sisters, said that she would not and has never lived with any of them in college. </p>

<p>She said she liked ther friends too much to live with them; like Emmy’s daughter, she had to turn some people down because she thought that maintaining the relationship was more important than living together. Whether or not your daughter wants to admit it, she knows her friends. Her remaining silent about the things she does not like about the house is giving buy-in to what is going on. </p>

<p>The at end of the day, she is paying money (or at least yoru money) for rent and the apartment is her home. That in an of itself gives her the right to speak up as to how she wants or needs to live in her home. Home should be the one place where you can get solace and escape the pressures of the outside world. It should not additional stress!</p>

19

<p>OP – D and her other housemates need to tell Hotel Hannah that the bf will have to pay part of the rent if he stays there. They rented 1/4th of an apartment, and now they only have 1/5th of an apartment. BF is using space, water, electricity, parking, etc. and the others should not have to pay his share. I once had to do this in college, when in an off-campus house of 5 people with 1 bathroom and one guy had his GF practically living there. They didn’t think it was unreasonable for her to have to pay part of the cost, once we explained that 6 people was more than 5 people.</p>

20

<p>Thank you so much for all your thoughtful responses.</p>

<p>I have spoken with her in the past about “expectations,” and how often others don’t see things the same way, and that they are not mind readers. That what is important to you may not be important to someone else. That what is an issue to her isn’t necessarily to another. I have encouraged her to have the conversation before it all gets out of control. As you can probably guess, she is not a person who expresses her feelings well, and holds much in. Then she suffers from undue stress, etc., because she doesn’t deal with things up front. Hard lessons sometimes to learn; I had to get to about 35 probably before I learned them myself. For me, it has been one of the good things about getting older. I am hoping it doesn’t take her that long!</p>

<p>She really didn’t tell me much about what, if any conversation, they have had as a group prior to their moving in together. I know they decided almost a year ago that this would be their living arrangement for this year, so they had plenty of time. I only know I have suggested a talk about five times now, so I am hoping she will listen and take my advice.</p>