Applied Math/Business simultaneous degree?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>I was originally debating between business, econ, and applied math with a cluster in econ, but have ruled pure econ out because I feel that the undergrad econ major doesn't have nearly as much math as would be needed in the future (and I personally enjoy math). I have not been able to choose between applied math and business (if I can get into Haas), but think I would like to get a simultaneous degree with them. However, I was not sure:</p>

<p>1) if it would be technically possible given the lack of overlap between the courses, and the two year graduation requirement set by haas (I plan to finish the 7 course breath at a cc)
2) if it would be humanly possible without struggling to manage 24/7? (it may look great on paper, but I want time to explore, join clubs, help with research, etc to see if this really is something I want to do)
3) how to balance the coursework out without overloading on the the difficulty level (as courses for both majors are pretty tough when combined with others, should I take a 50/50 of both, or focus on one more that the other at first, and then move from there)</p>

<p>Another thing was that was after talking to other undergrads (correct me if I'm wrong), I feel that the undergraduate business major is somewhat overrated. A lot of people in the pre-haas track seem to be doing it for the Haas name/prestige, and don't take classes to learn and explore the topic so they can apply their knowledge, so much as to memorize facts and spit them out to get A's (i.e. UGBA 10). Now don't get me wrong, I value the Haas name as much as they do, and my ultimate goal is to get into Haas as a grad student (MBA) and go into finance, econ or international business, but say I choose to not be a business major:</p>

<p>1) Will my chances at getting an MBA from Haas (or another equally good school) be negatively affected?
2) Will just an applied math w/ econ major prepare me enough (not just in grad school, but in the future as well)?</p>

<p>I still intend to take business and econ courses no matter what (since I would need them), but I feel as though the "cut-throat, get all A's without absorbing any material" nature that I'm seeing now really makes me rethink whether all of it is, well, worth it. I'm looking more for future opportunities...so I was really just looking for some advice. </p>

<p>Sorry this is so long, but thank you!</p>

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<p>General observations:
You sound like a typical asian freshman female stereotype. (not racist or anything, I was once like that too).</p>

<p>Do some research, talk to people. What does it mean to have an ultimate goal in “finance, econ, or international business”? Econ… economic research? (if so, major in econ… go to econ grad school). …Econ policy?(see part1, you gotta be a famous econ research first) Finance? (haas gives definite edge). International Business?! (usually term thrown around by asians who don’t have a clue what job they want after college)</p>

<p>Part 1:

  1. Any double major is fine. I know people do triple majors in math/haas/stats. I doubt it too hard.
  2. If you want to do business, you’ll have to do extracurriculars. Again, people do it all the time. If you can’t handle it, you can always drop a major.
  3. Plan.</p>

<p>Part 2:

  1. Haas undergrad degree doesn’t help for MBA… hurts if anything
  2. Prepare as in job? Depends on what you want to do. I hope you realize that you need 3-5 years work experience before MBA.</p>

<p>Note on Haas:
How the heck do you plan on getting As in all your classes without absorbing any material? Your statements seem contradictory and overcritical.</p>

<p>Note on your sources:
Is the person who’s giving you advice successful? Are they were you want to be?

  • If so, listen to them and learn what got them there.
  • The worst thing you can do is listen to some sophomore or junior who has less idea than you about how things are…Don’t get advice from people who have yet to land an internship/job, consider asking post-internship recruiting juniors/seniors, grads, mbas, profs, business frats or alum for advice instead…</p>
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<p>let me preface by saying that i am an applied math / biz double major</p>

<p>1) yes, it is very possible. just plan accordingly. i take 2 math + 3 business per semester (16-18 units) and it’s fine. </p>

<p>2) yes, very humanly possible. depends on your caliber on whether you can handle it personally while still satisfying your social life and EC life. make sure you know your limits / abilities before declaring. though i guess you could just drop the major later if u struggle fest.</p>

<p>3) name the classes specifically and you’d get much clearer and more helpful advice.</p>

<hr>

<p>1) i have to disagree with starrynights on this one:
[Class</a> Profile, Full-Time MBA Program - Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley](<a href=“Full-Time MBA Program | Berkeley Haas”>Full-Time MBA Program | Berkeley Haas)
Full-Time MBA Program | 2011 Class Profile | Undergraduate Majors
Business 24%
Economics 22%
Engineering 22%
Social Sciences 14%
Humanities 6%
Natural Sciences 5%
Computer Sciences 4%
Other 3%</p>

<p>2) yes, math+econ is a very attractive combination to many employers in the career fields you mentioned</p>

<p>before you ask yourself whether it’s worth it, remember you are forming a basis for the rest of your life. how you perform in your undergrad may play a big part in dictating your job out of college or what grad programs you will be competitive for when applying. if you don’t think YOU are worth it, then don’t try hard to excel, even if it means lowering yourself to the point of being a grade wh*re. every major opens many many opportunities down the line. math, econ, and biz each could lead to the mba. do what makes you happy, and do what you know you can motivate yourself to excel in. </p>

<p>but don’t belittle haas recruiting lol O:)</p>

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</p>

<p>Business has even less math than economics. While [economics[/url</a>] has math-heavy courses like 101A, C103, 104, 138, 141, and graduate courses, no [url=<a href=“http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Undergraduate+Business+Administration&p_dept_cd=UGBA&p_path=l]business[/url”>http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Undergraduate+Business+Administration&p_dept_cd=UGBA&p_path=l]business[/url</a>] course needs more than a semester of calculus and a semester of statistics.</p>

<p>Simultaneous degrees with business and math could get pretty crowded in terms of scheduling. For business, you will need UGBA 10 and 38 units of upper division business courses (total 41 units); for math, you will need 8 upper division courses, usually about 32 units. That means 71 units over 4 semesters, or about 18 units per semester. While many students can handle that (especially since they are not lab courses), that is still a pretty tight schedule squeeze.</p>

<p>On the other hand, applied math and economics are 8 upper division courses each, 2 of which (economics/math C103, economics 141) can [url=<a href=“http://math.berkeley.edu/undergraduate_major_require_applied.html]overlap[/url”>http://math.berkeley.edu/undergraduate_major_require_applied.html]overlap[/url</a>], for a total of about 14 courses or about 56 units, which would leave space for some free elective courses within the typical 60 to 64 units over 4 semesters.</p>

<p>You can check how graduates in various majors do here:
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm](<a href=“http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Economics&p_dept_cd=ECON]economics[/url”>http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Economics&p_dept_cd=ECON)</a></p>

<p>MBA programs do not require any specific undergraduate major or course work, but they typically do want to see good work experience. However, if you intend to go to economics graduate school or a [Master</a> of Financial Engineering](<a href=“Master of Financial Engineering Program | Berkeley Haas”>http://mfe.berkeley.edu/) program (quantitative finance), you want to have a strong math background.</p>

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<p>StarryNights: Ok, so you got me there. I am an Asian female who does not know for sure what I want to in the future (but then again, being a freshman, I don’t think that is bad thing…yet), but I AM trying to research as much as possible - hence posting this thread. My real problem this semester is that I am a commuter who is HORRIBLE at socializing and has to leave before sundown (I am not going on bart in the dark), meaning I haven’t met as many people as I would have liked, but ask for advice at every possible opportunity. What I meant by listing those was just stating the topics that seem interesting to me right now (which could, very realistically, change in the next few months), and I said “international” business because I really like to travel, and may settle down outside America. Seeing how different markets are related and how the cultural backgrounds of various countries affect their economic choices is also something I am interested in (but I’m not completely sure what realm that would fall under). </p>

<p>I meant a job that would prepare me for getting into school for an MBA, or a masters in a field related to what interests me at this point. On the contrary, it is very possible to get an A in a subject without retaining anything for future use - especially if tests are based on straight facts (this is happening to me right now in 2 breath courses that I can’t drop and aren’t as interesting as I thought they would be). I did not mean to imply that ALL courses could be passed like this. </p>

<p>Thank you for the advice! I will make sure to find reliable sources. </p>

<p>Crowslayer91: It’s great to finally see someone else doing this! I’ll still push towards doing this then. For next semester, I wanted to take Math 53, Econ 1 (econ 2 is not offered) and stat 21 (I took AP stats in high school, so will this be like a review class? it seems similar to stat 20), but don’t know what else to take for the applied math major. My gsi said math 74 is good to get used to upper div math, but I saw it isn’t being offered next semester, and that math 54 and 53 at the same time may just be suicide. Should I just take UGBA 10 and finish up my Haas prereqs? I’m an FPF freshman, so my phase I telebears is really bad…are these courses especially hard to get? What would back ups be? I feel like I’m more or less all prepared for my lower-div (math 54 and 55 for next year, and perhaps only UGBA 10 if I don’t do it next semester)…I may even take the last 3 of my 7 breadth next year, but it’s the upper-div that are frightening me. Is it advisable to take them as a sophomore? If not, what else could I take next year if I only need 3 more prereqs? (I may end up taking Japanese or Mandarin too, but then what?) </p>

<p>That was exactly why I wanted to do a simultaneous major. I wanted to form a broad basis for the future because I am still hesitant about what I want to do in the future. </p>

<p>I’m sorry, I’m not quite sure what you meant by the last part here " if you don’t think YOU are worth it, then don’t try hard to excel, even if it means lowering yourself to the point of being a grade wh*re." </p>

<p>I definitely think I am worth it, and will work hard to excel, but do you mean I should just be a grade wh*re? It’s not like I’m aiming to not get A’s (I’m still dealing with the shock of not being the top of the class on all my midterms haha, yes I do realize that is pathetic and egocentric, but this attitude will probably change after a few more weeks at cal), but I also want to avoid just aiming for the A so I can learn/explore more, because I really regret being lazy/getting stuck in that rut in HS. If being just an applied math major will be better for that (and still get me to where I want to go), I think I would go for that instead. I did not mean I was wondering whether college is worth it, but whether undergrad Haas would be in comparison to applied math.</p>

<p>Sorry if I seemed like i was belittling Haas recruiting! I honestly have an IMMENSE amount of respect for Haas, and all the upper classmen in Haas that I have talked to seem so well versed and knowledgeable, but it’s the hordes of freshmen I see just going for the Haas name that is turning me off. Do those people also change after they get in? Or have I just been meeting the wrong people? </p>

<p>ucbalumnus: That is exactly why while I would consider dropping the business major, I wouldn’t be so quick to do so with the applied math. For a majority of the fields that interest me, I thought that applied math would be nice and broad, so I could have more time to find out what I REALLY want to do and then dive in. If I end up just being a business major (PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong - my understanding of life after graduation is quite fuzzy at the moment), I feel like I would be more limited in my choice for masters and jobs. For instance, trying to get a masters in econ after being an undergraduate business major doesn’t seem like it would work out too well. </p>

<p>Those were the numbers I was coming across as well (around 5 required courses a semester), which is why I was worried about whether it would be possible. On the other hand, would a double degree of applied math w/ an econ cluster and an econ major be equally as good for jobs and masters? Could I go straight into upper div stats courses as 20/21/25 are explicitly needed only for Haas? (I can only find schedules of the courses, not descriptions/requirements?) I feel confident with my AP stats background, and would go through the stat 21 lectures on youtube to make sure I’m ready. I just don’t want to be bored in anymore classes like I have been this semester. </p>

<p>Thanks again to everyone who replied!</p>

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<p>take 53, stat 21 (review for you) or ugba 10, and econ 1 (simple stuff, especially if you have prior econ exp) and you should get this out of the way ASAP as it is a prereq for the econ 100/101 and ugba 101 series and you want the flexibility to take these classes at your leisure + a breadth IMO. (4 classes [14-16 units])</p>

<p>take ugba 10 either this semester, next semester, or next fall semester. don’t take it next spring because admissions at haas really wants to know what you’d get in ugba 10 and will be happy if you do very well in it.</p>

<p>also, don’t mix up your goals. if you want to be a business major you need to remember the goals: build a good network, get good (summer) interning experience, and get the highest gpa possible. if you can do all this you’ll be rolling in glory when you step foot off of campus after graduation. yes, it is cute as a freshman to be in love with school and the material and want to LEARN LEARN LEARN everything whole-heartedly. yes. very cute. but if you tell that to a recruiter they will say “if you love learning so much, then why don’t you just go to grad school?” they need people who are capital-E-fficient. but yes, its not a crime to want to learn, so more power to you, just keep your grades up.</p>

<p>last note: math 74? japanese/mandarin? no. no no no no. I said a simult. degree was doable, but not if you waste all your time taking courses that have no bearing on your degree. only take the courses outlined and do not stray. the overall goal is to graduate ON TIME. if you are ready for upper divs, then take them. see the thread discussing taking math 55 vs math 110 first. there is no rush and you seem to have good pacing, but stay on top of your sched and dont take filler courses that arent breadths. (and definitely not extra courses that would lower your gpa)</p>

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<p>Would it be too difficult to take 53, stat 21, UGBA 10 and econ 1 all at the same time? (if by some miracle get all of them despite still being considered an entering freshman for telebears…I’ll plan on 53 and econ 1 for phase I) Is there any breadth course that you would recommend that is not too difficult? I still need international studies, phil/val, soc/beh, and american cultures to finish all the L&S basic reqs. I also have a question that I was going to ask the advisors at Haas, but I guess I’ll ask here so I can think about it while planning everything out. I took Introduction to Business at a cc my senior year (which assist said was equal to UGBA 10). I know it doesn’t count for the UGBA 10 req because I am a cal freshman, but is it good for anything? </p>

<p>Thanks, I’ll be sure to keep that in mind. What would be the best way to go about finding good internships - joining a business club, or talking to professors and grad/phd students? I am going to be helping a phD student at haas with her research unofficially for this semester (a few basic things like supervising experiments, etc every couple weeks), which she said will give me an edge when actually trying to get in through URAP next semester since her lab is pretty competitive. Is this the type of stuff they look for when they admit kids? I also wanted to try getting a spot as an account executive for the daily cal, but is this just a waste of time? yes! I will keep my grades up!..but say I do switch and go to grad school because I find “a passion” for something or another…would all these courses still be good?</p>

<p>oh man, ok…I’ll really have to buckle down then. I was freaking out about the whole proof aspect of upper div math, which was why 74 seemed like it may be useful so I don’t completely sink. What I got from the thread was that upper div math isn’t really that difficult compared to lower div since they are more interesting?</p>

<p>…and just a random question I guess, but are there a good number of people out there who do applied math/business? Over half the people I have met so far are pre-haas, engineering, or integrative bio…</p>

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<p>

that’s what they call putting all your eggs in one basket. it’s not a recommended practice. you should take a breadth there as your “easy A course” so you can focus seriously on your prereqs. as i suggested above take

  1. 53
  2. stat 21 (you said you were good at stats?) OR ugba 10
  3. econ 1
  4. breadth</p>

<p>or maybe

  1. 53
    2.stat 21
  2. econ 1 OR ugba 10
  3. breadth</p>

<p>that 2nd one may be easier for you. </p>

<p>

recently haas changed its admissions application so that you don’t have to finish all your breadths by the end of your sophomore year. if you want to finish them all ASAP thats up to you, but as time goes on, you end up taking classes that are all for your major and cannot be taken p/np like breadths. taking 16 to 18+ units of letter graded classes can be rather stressful. just something to consider. but for IS i took econ c175 and it was easy peasy (may be useful if you’re looking into an econ degree instead of a biz degree as it does count as an econ elective). i took philos 12A which was laughably easy (cue caiacs) though for some reason some people have been complaining on CC about it lately (???) maybe their profs were harder. (even still, the material is literally for babies) check around though. idk about easy soc or AC courses. just do a forum search for “easy breadth” on CC and there will be multiple hits to research.

best to ask haas office, it doesn’t matter what we think or say, whatever they see it as is what counts.</p>

<p>

what kind of internship? many people milk the networks of alumni, callisto, family/friends, career fairs, calling firms (cold networking), business or social frat hook ups, club connections, and other venues. it really depends what kind of internship you’re looking to have. as a typical freshman, your options arent very open yet, but still there are some things you can do. the more you do, and the more clear-goal-defined and focused your resume becomes, the better (in most cases). And i have no interest or knowledge in URAPs, sorry can’t help there. I feel a lot of econ majors do it and not so many business majors. If your semester isn’t too crowded, go for it if you enjoy it / see it advancing your competitive advantage.
& it’s not a waste of time if you can spin it as a relevant experience to whatever position you apply to in the future. also, it’s better than nothing, right?

grad school idk. look it up on their website what classes they prefer you to have under your belt. i’m sure it’ll be fine as long as you write interesting essays and have a decent gpa.
if you’re talking about mba, you won’t be getting into a decent mba program out of undergrad. so don’t bank on it. (also, quite literally, i doubt you have the bank for it yet)

I haven’t met another applied math/biz major yet. though my friend said she knew one aside from me. so yeah. it’s a lonely existence. and now I guess you. welcome. though i do meet a lot of stats/biz majors (you can use almost ANY class to satisfy the stats electives [e.g. overlap 2 ugba UpperDivs as “stats” classes, sit back, and relax] + the fact the stats major only needs a couple requirements compared to math. meh… call me bitter jelly, but whatever. </p>

<p>

welcome to Cal. </p>

<p>Most popular majors (as of Fall 2009):
Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, 1500 students;
Political Science, 916 students;
Molecular and Cell Biology, 1020 students;
Environmental Science, Policy and Management, 886 students;
Economics 828 students.
[Facts</a> at a glance - UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://berkeley.edu/about/fact.shtml]Facts”>By the numbers - University of California, Berkeley)</p>

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<p>math 53, stat 21, UGBA 10 and econ 1 is a pretty light schedule in my opinion. You’ll be fine.</p>

<p>As for haas reqs:
[Prerequisites</a>, Undergraduate Program - Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley](<a href=“Application Process - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas”>Application Process - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas)</p>

<p>“Undergraduate Business Administration 10–Principles of Business. All UC Berkeley applicants must complete this course at UC Berkeley.”
So your business class can only be a breadth requirement.</p>

<p>In terms of URAP, not many business students do it because it’s not useful for industry. If you want to go to grad school however, research is almost a pre-req.</p>

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<p>urkk…conflicting opinions haha I’ll ponder that</p>

<p>I’m leaning towards schedule 2, with UGBA 10 instead of econ simply because I feel the curve would be easier in the spring than fall (though I guess no one will be able to tell for sure?), but will getting rid of the econ 1 req be better? I’ll check out other breadths too, worst case, I’ll post a new thread, but econ c175 seems to be a promising back up(like 80% A’s?) - didn’t realize spacing them out now would make it easier in the future too (derp moment)…but if I don’t finish them up, and take other random breadths, won’t that get in the way of making all the reqs in time? If I choose to push them off until later, do I take upper div courses earlier instead? I heard P/NP should be avoided if possible, is that true? </p>

<p>I’m not too sure about what type of internship I’m looking for exactly, so I’ll get started on researching that asap. While paid and/or international in a private organization would be totally awesome, I do have a brain somewhere between my ears and am not that delusional, so basically anything I can squeeze into as a freshman would make me happy. Dude, exactly what I was thinking!..but a lot of those didn’t seem to be so useful for college apps so I wasn’t too sure. Is study abroad over the summer ruled out completely? (I gather during the school year would be, but have you had to take courses over the summer to get all the reqs?) Hmmm…two strikes against URAP…I’ll rethink committing to that, but I don’t really have much else I can do this semester because of the whole commuting thing. A lot of the clubs/events meet at night…meh…I guess since it’s like a pre req for grad school though, I’ll keep that option open - it seemed pretty interesting, and I will get to know some profs at Haas, which should be a good thing. Much rather try it out now that when I have to take 18 credits of upper div courses. definitely looking forward to that ._. </p>

<p>for sure not MBA (I’m thinking late 20s for that)…and yes…paying off my last 2 years as an undergrad is probably going to cost me a kidney or something :/</p>

<p>ha…well three’s better than none? I’ll be keeping an eye out for more…but finding applied math majors in general is surprisingly hard enough. mind if I ask what cluster you chose? did you make your own? </p>

<p>Thanks again guys!</p>

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<p>My adviser was super chill and let me have a pretty straight forward cluster (There are some mean clusters out there that would’ve definitely been pretty bad GPA killers for me, lol.)</p>

<p>I’ll be taking:
-Stats 150 (Stochastic Processes)
-Math 126 (Intro to PDEs)
-UGBA 137 (Financial Derivatives)</p>

<p>When people ask what I “apply” in, I get to say "[Mathematical Finance](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_finance"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_finance&lt;/a&gt;)" B)</p>

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<p>Why the fear of BART in particular? If it is crime, the risk is probably more on the way to BART (depending on the route taken), or through BART parking lots.</p>

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<p>[General</a> Catalog - Courses & Curricula by Department](<a href=“http://sis.berkeley.edu/gc/curricula.html]General”>http://sis.berkeley.edu/gc/curricula.html)</p>

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<p>You can take Statistics 134 without taking 20 or 21. This is allowed for the statistics and economics majors, but not the business major.</p>

<p>For preparation for the math or applied math major, you can take Math 53, 54, and/or 55. Math 55 is apparently used to introduce proof techniques to prospective math or applied math majors (it looks like they discontinued Math 74). Also, you should get a taste of that if you take Math H53 and/or H54 (honors versions of Math 53 and 54).</p>

<p>Note that Math 53 (or H53) is a prerequisite for Economics 101A, the most mathematical of the intermediate microeconomics courses (less mathematical versions are Economics 100A, Undergraduate Business Administration 101A, Environmental Economics and Policy 100, International and Area Studies 106; the business major accepts only the business, economics, and IAS versions, and the economics major accepts only the economics versions).</p>

<p>As far as popular majors go, Molecular and Cell Biology has the greatest number of graduates. The engineering majors are large in terms of current students because most of them come in as pre-declared freshmen, while L&S freshmen come in undeclared and usually do not declare until about halfway through.</p>

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<p>@crowslayer91 oh, nice! sounds fancy haha … so it could be just about anything then :D</p>

<p>@ucbalumnus nah, it’s just a few…interesting…people I’ve come across after sundown (or even during rush hour for that matter, but I feel better when there are more people) both walking to the station (including waiting for the bus) and in the train itself. On the few days I was late, I was fine until Macarthur, but then practically everyone left. I have to transfer as well, and waiting for the train got me pretty jumpy. I guess I might just be a baby, but I would rather not have to do that again - so I try to get on the dublin/Pleasanton line a little after evening rush hour. </p>

<p>I was hoping I could skip it if it was review, but since I’m going for a business major I’m stuck then. That makes sense! I was looking around last week, and found all the old lectures for 74, but couldn’t find out if it would be offered any time soon since it wasn’t this year. 55 is a requirement though, so that’ll work. If I do a nice easy breadth I might try H53…it’s only 25 people (and my gsi said it would be more math majors as opposed to engineers and stuff), which seems nice, but I’ll poke around more to see if it won’t be too difficult. </p>

<p>WOW! I feel stupid now. All these people kept saying an acronym that I couldn’t figure out, so when I asked again they would just say bio! It was MCB! </p>

<p>So I’ll see how this all works out then! Thanks! I learned more in 2 days than a week of talking to the few people I know and the counselors haha</p>