Are My Parents Shafting Me?

Paying for College
41

<p>chedva, it is not merely knowledge about not having to support parents financially. It is my obligation to raise a child educated totally to the max of his potential. To be a parent is not merely to feed and clothe to age 18 (because it is a legal age?) to make a child get a job, it is not about financial independence of the child, it is about helping my son pursue knowledge to the utmost bounds of human thought as Tennyson puts it.</p>

<p>This is a peculiar culture that kicks the kids out at age 18, emphasizes money all the time (kids paid to do chores, kids having to contribute to this and that all in the name of financial knowledge and self-sufficiency) and paradoxically a nation with little knowledge of financial self sufficiency or responsibility.</p>

<p>Hornet, et al, all those wise questions about how long parents have had the income, are they supporting aging parents, etc etc etc etc. Let us not be that concrete, let us give the OP poster some credit. There are no hidden financial sink holes, assume parents can afford......</p>

42

<p>I see a couple of things going on here. One is very different philosophies about what parents obligations are about paying for college. I know this varies from parents who feel they should pay it all if they possibly can to those who feel it is primarily their child's responsibility to various positions in between. Having had my education (both undergrad and grad) paid for by my parents, I would feel quite guilty about not paying for my kids, but I can't say that other parents who feel differently are wrong. </p>

<p>The second thing is just how much income is an AGI of $150,000 is. As other posters have posted, how wealthy you feel on this sort of income can really vary. I can tell you that in our area $100,000 disappears completely even if you are pretty careful about spending, driving cars into the ground, living in a fairly modest house etc. That's not even counting saving for a catastrophe. I know a few wealthy families who lost everything when a parent became seriously disabled.</p>

<p>If you can do it in a nice way, it might be a good education for you to see if your parents can explain where the money goes. It might open your eyes. I don't think they are deliberately cheating you, though they may have less risk tolerance than you think they should have.</p>

<p>Unfortunately I don't think there is an easy answer to your question.</p>

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<p>Is it me, or do rich parents seem more distant from their children?</p>

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<p>
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I can tell you that in our area $100,000 disappears completely even if you are pretty careful about spending, driving cars into the ground, living in a fairly modest house etc.

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<p>This is something that people from other areas of the country, and/or those who earn a lot less, have a real hard time understanding!</p>

45

<p>My parents were quite comfortable but they were the emotional blackmailers another poster talked about.</p>

<p>My mother was bitter and competitive. Even though her immigrant parents sent her and her sister to Syracuse, and she nudged my father into paying for an OOS public for my brother, I was Cinderella and went to an instate public and paid for it myself.</p>

<p>I had to turn down two dream schools -- Yale and Barnard (Columbia all boys at the time) to do it. </p>

<p>Yeah, I'm a bit bitter. </p>

<p>I think it does not feel good to feel that one's parents are withholding what other parents give, but for some kids that's just a fact of life. (I don't think that's necessarily a feeling of entitlement.)</p>

<p>I have always felt like the poor relation among friends with fancy degrees, and I am of the philosophy that I would do anything to make sure my kids didn't feel this way.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I did get a good education, good enough to have me accepted to an Ivy graduate school and Berkeley.</p>

<p>I do think kids are entitled to their parents full love and support and resources provided the parents are not being impoverished. We chose to have them.</p>

<p>This doesn't mean a 50K tab if the parents are not uber-wealthy. For example, UF is an excellent school. (Not all state publics are.)</p>

<p>The parents may want their child to stay instate and be close by. In which case an honest admission would be helpful. In any event, the OP should ask his parents to explain their reasoning.</p>

<p>And parents like Curm who research to get their kids a great merit package are showing their love and caring that way. Other parents (like 07DAD) teach their children a measure of independence that is also a gift. If the parent is loving and teaches the child the strategies of coping with the family's financial situation the child is empowered. If the parents seem to be withholding the child is diminished. And this is true whatever the actual dollar amount the parents contribute.</p>

<p>Money is one vehicle of love, but there are others. It can also be a weapon of family politics. In our society money is our major symbol. </p>

<p>I must say, I do wonder what it would have been like if my parents had lovingly sent me to Yale or Barnard instead of my having to struggle with all sorts of issues at Stony Brook.</p>

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<p>mythmom, so beautifully put, yes, I do believe my son must be given all my resources. I will gladly live in a shelter if that will give him grand opportunities.</p>

47

<p>ramaswami, my personal philosophy is similar to yours; as I said, we are paying for d's college.</p>

<p>But I don't know the OP's situation. Does he have a habit of starting things that he doesn't finish? Is he profligate with money? Do his parents want to make sure he's invested in his education? Maybe that's why they want to give him the money after he's done. </p>

<p>There are a whole lot of things we don't know. And not every parent shares my philosophy about education.</p>

48

<p>Chevda, since the OP wanted an assessment of his parents' approach, I assumed his argument had a level playing field in that a) parent had capacity to pay (no aging parents, no hidden debts , high salary reliable for a period of time, etc) and b) that the OP is not a time bomb waiting to go off in that he is a good investment.</p>

<p>So, I chipped in re the parents. I have always told my son what is mine is his and vice versa, I have encouraged him to thank others but never me (stomach does not thank the mouth), if he has needs he can take whatever we have, because it is his also, and I will never feel guilty about taking his, because it is mine. May appear strange to others but this is a version of applying Stoic philosophy to family.</p>

49

<p>Wow, lots of backlashes at the OP. I, on the other hand, see where the OP is coming from. I believe that your parents can shaft you, even if they give you a considerable sum of money. A lot of parents are replying and saying how kids have such a sense of entitlement and on and on...what they're not recognizing is colleges don't care what parents actually can contribute, they only care about their EFC.</p>

<p>After all, if colleges call it "estimated family contribution," no wonder we students are curious to know if our parents are really doing all they can if their # is considerably short of the FAFSA EFC. The OP is simply asking if we think his parents are planning to contribute a reasonable amount. Is it not hard to see where he's coming from when FAFSA's saying his parents should be able to contribute 40K and they're only offering 12? Logically, one of them (either the FAFSA or his parents) is coming up with an unreasonable amount if they are not matching.</p>

<p>The OP’s question is no doubt in part due to the fact that as FAFSA is such an official calculation. Thus, surely it can't be unreasonable. Therefore, his parents are being unreasonable by not matching their expected contribution. </p>

<p>On that note, I would say to the OP that my parents gross about 130K/year and expect to contribute 12-15K/year for my education for 4 years. Although this is considerably short of their EFC, I believe that that amount is all they can contribute. I have numerous friends with similar incomes in similar problems. Thus, I don't think your or my parents are being unreasonable; I think it’s the EFC that’s bunk.</p>

<p>Also...to the OP...ignore all those people telling you you're spoiled and are feeling such "entitlement." They're mostly just parents who don't understand our thought processes, questions, or how we are being told two different things from our parents and our colleges.</p>

50

<p>To the OP's original question:
Yes, this kind of situation occurs in other people's lives also. Just a week or two ago I was extremely upset when one of my good friends had to decline his and my dream school, Columbia, because his parents won't contribute a cent, and they make nearly 300k!!!</p>

<p>You should take what you can get and do the best you can with it. After all, your life is NOT going to be determined by how prestigious your U is.</p>

51

<p>
[quote]
I assumed his argument had a level playing field in that a) parent had capacity to pay (no aging parents, no hidden debts , high salary reliable for a period of time, etc) and b) that the OP is not a time bomb waiting to go off in that he is a good investment.

[/quote]

Having been on these boards, and around teenagers, for quite some time, I make no such assumption.</p>

<p>Other than that, ramaswami, my philosophy and yours are quite similar. However, many people don't share it.</p>

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<p>
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This is something that people from other areas of the country, and/or those who earn a lot less, have a real hard time understanding!

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<p>When I was younger before our divorce and when we were more prosperous, we lived pretty comfortably on a combined household income of $85,000 per year (up from $58,000 when we first entered this country). After our divorce and consequent financial fallout however, my single mother still has some of the more exorbitant habits, like buying all too much on the home shopping channels, insisting on purchasing 30-dollar takeaway meals when pasta can be purchased for fifty cents a pound, and even after things like butter, spices, vegetables and sauce, it would yield meals for 1/6 of the cost), buying soft drinks and seafood, among other wasteful extravagances. We struggle to make the rent and yet our apartment is littered with countless consumer products. I think there's something wrong when children have to remind their parents to cut down on the expenses (as opposed to the other way round). </p>

<p>After seeing the incredible excesses of my single parent even though we currently have an income of only $43,000 this year (it was zero except for child support last year), I've concluded it's really not that difficult to maximise income, if only people would stop <em>wasting</em>. It's not about "understanding," it's about getting rid of wasteful American habits. It's basic economics: choose the things with the most marginal benefit per marginal cost.</p>

<p>My mind spins at the amount of excesses we've spent on the past seven years -- had we eschewed them, we'd almost be worry-free fiscally, I think.</p>

53

<p>My D has a friend whose parents encouraged her to apply to top schools last year, as well as to our state's two top U's. The friend got into Duke, Vandy, and UVA (relatively small merit scholarship here) ... no need based aid, because her parents make A LOT of money. She also got into UMich (no aid) and Michigan State. She got a really great scholarship to MSU, and her parents decided that because of this scholarship, she had to go to MSU. Unfair? It felt that way ... to her & to her friends, who all knew her parents had great jobs. To be honest, I thought that it was wrong for her parents to encourage her to apply to the expensive schools then tell her she couldn't go (not that I told the kids that). But then I realized that I didn't know anything about their "real" financial situation ... perhaps something had happened between application & acceptance. And perhaps they thought she might get great merit money at the expensive schools. Finally, maybe they just plain believe that the amazing scholarship at MSU makes it by far the best choice for their family. To their D's credit, she quickly decided to make the best of the situation & is probably one of the very top students at MSU ... she got tons of credit for her AP's, she is doing research, she is flying through her classes with great grades ... things are going very well for her. Why? Because she understands that her parents have reasons for their financial decision, whether or not she likes them ... and she decided to make the best of her situation.</p>

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<p>A year ago I wouldn't have thought this, but it makes sense to take the full ride if you're offered it. The money can go towards graduate school (since it has much less generous financial aid).</p>

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<p>Making the best of things is obviously the best policy, and I'm sure you're right kelsmom, that there could be upteen circumstances that we don't know about. But I do think the older generation is put here to help the younger succeed. In terms of biology we are completely redundant now except for that.</p>

<p>And we don't see scars of kids' psyches either.</p>

<p>If the parents can afford the school the kid wants to attend and has encouraged the kid to apply in those cases it is sad when the parents don't come through on their end. JMO.</p>

<p>However, kids who accept their circumstances are the great winners.</p>

<p>An acquaintance of mine encouraged her kid to apply to OOS publics. The kid got into one very nice school. The parent forced her to go to our instate public which just happens to be four miles from our house. And then the mom said to me, "I knew she really didn't want to go because she never filled out her FAFSA." Huh? How can a kid fill out FAFSA?</p>

<p>These problems could be averted if the parents are up front at the beginning of the process and lovingly support the student in creating options that the parent would happily support. However, the parents then have to do enough research to let them know that higher tier schools are never going to give the merit aid that lower tier schools will. Then the kids can be told they can apply if they're willing to forego the school if finances dictate.</p>

<p>We have need-based FA, but of course tuition for two at privates is still difficult. My very darling responsible daughter asked me if she was obligated to accept the best FA package. I said no, not if the lower one was doable, but she did ask. I was proud of her.</p>

<p>However, I did just make her get a blue jacket at Banana Republic rather than the white one she wanted because the blue was discounted spring stock and the white new summer stock. The blue jacket (exactly the same cut) was over 50% reduced. It looks quite cute on her, even though she isn't a "blue person," but her own description. She wore it to go visit friends at Yale and on a grey overcast day it looked better than the white would have IMO.</p>

56

<p>I didn't read through every post here but while I do think its ridiculous to feel "entitled" to your parents money, especially when they are willing to pay that much, I can sympathize with the whole lack of communication situation. My parents pretty much waited until AFTER I had applied to all my schools to tell me how much they could afford to spend, even though they had taken me to several of the major cities to visit the schools I was interested in. I realize I could have taken more responsibility to ask them if what we were getting into was feasible, but I guess I figured "ignorance is bliss." That is NOT the case. I definitely agree that parents and their kids should have the whole financial talk early on in the college researching process. Now I'm in the terrible situation of not being able to afford ANY of the schools I got into (though still waiting on the financial aid/scholarship packet from the last school). I don't know what I'm going to do!</p>

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<p>Perhaps, they are planning to save money for their retirement. They worked hard all their lives and want to be able to have a nice life once they retire. They probably don't want to be a great burden in your life later on. They want to help you, but they also have their own lives. They can't give you everything on a silver platter. It is very likely that no one supported them as much as they are supporting you when they started out in their independent lives. You are an adult now. Fight for your future and stop being so spoiled...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
However, the parents then have to do enough research to let them know that higher tier schools are never going to give the merit aid that lower tier schools will. Then the kids can be told they can apply if they're willing to forego the school if finances dictate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I couldn't agree with this more. While parents can make their own decisions regarding what they can or will pay for college, they should be up front with their kids about it. Then the kids can make their lists accordingly. They can hope for great aid at somewhere expensive, but when it doesn't come in, they know that it's no longer an option.</p>

<p>It's when parents change the rules in the middle of the game (like, after acceptances come in) that is problematic.</p>

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<p>It is what it is what it is. Colleges care about the EFC when dispersing need based aid...and that is that. </p>

<p>The thing I find troubling is that there seem to be families who KNOW their EFC is in excess of what they will pay, know that schools offer no merit aid, encourage their kids to apply to multiple schools where need based financial aid will NOT be forthcoming...and then after the acceptance comes in, they say no to paying. I have trouble with this sequence.</p>

<p>Another poster made an excellent point about consumer spending. I have to wonder how many of these families cut back on vacations, new cars, home purchase or remodeling, or other big ticket spending in the years PRIOR to their child going to college? </p>

<p>The best way to save more money...is to spend less of it.</p>

60

<p>This is an interesting thread-- many insights into the thinking of parents and teens with respect to paying for college.</p>

<p>To the OP-- you can rest assured that you are not being "shafted"! But I think that you really wanted to know if your parents COULD do more or SHOULD do more. Well, I know that there are situations in which the parents finances look good on paper (some who own their own businesses tell me this, anyway) resulting in a high EFC, but the money just isn't there. It sounds as if your parents don't have lots of extra money just sitting in the bank, because they are talking about taking out loans. Many people have an aversion to debt, I know that my Husband and I do. We sacrificed and struggled to pay off our house and have lived debt-free ever since. We would not be happy going into debt that was higher than our mortgage for college expenses. So maybe they can't do any more.</p>

<p>But, if they could come up with more, should they? Hmmm..... there are obviously no real guidelines here. This says a lot about the relationship between the parents and the child. I'm not sure what to say about this except that I have seen some children whose parents spent a fortune sending them to expensive schools when the child gave them nothing but trouble. I've thought them to be foolish parents. However, there are children for whom a parent would definitely sell all their possessions to give them the opportunity to attend a dream school.</p>

<p>It boils down to -- your education is what you make of it. Sometimes being a top student a good state U offers great opportunities. That was my only option when I went to college, though I would have loved a small, private school. I never felt shafted by life, or my parents, and everything turned out great!</p>

<p>I'm wondering, if the money was yours, you had enough in the bank to pay what your parents have offered, and you had to take on the extra work and loans to pay for the more expensive school, which would you choose? I know that my teenagers always want the $50 jeans if I'm paying, but they want the $10 sale jeans if it is their money....</p>