Are My Parents Shafting Me?

<p>Actually some very wealthy people take loans too because the interest is not as great as the return on their money. Of course the stock market is terrible right now, so this may not be as true, but I have family members who sent children to full pay elite privates and took loans for the bulk of it. They have three residences and were willing to pony up but didn't want to spend the cash out of hand.</p>

<p>So, I don't know if loans are a good indicator of financial standing.</p>

<p>In fact the wealthiest people are the least "debt" averse because they know they'll have the means to service the debt.</p>

<p>I recently checked on the posts made by the OP since we have not heard anything else from him/her. He/she has moved on and is investigating U of F. It sounds like he/she is coming to terms with his/her situation and going forward.</p>

<p>We have to keep in mind that Op is a teen and he/she reacted in a gut way (as teens will given their less sophisticated emotional regulation devices) to the parental offerings. We can continue to have fun looking at all of the possible angles of this thread (which is fun) but I thought this update on the OP might be interesting.</p>

<p>Was he ungrateful after all?</p>

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Huh? How can a kid fill out FAFSA?

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<p>Err... I had to fill mine out myself, because my mother had no time to it with me.</p>

<p>Which resulted in a late FAFSA application, which I hope won't cost me.</p>

<p>galoisien, many parents prefer not to disclose their complete financial picture to their kids. Even if they don't have a problem doing so, their kids can't fill out a FAFSA without the parents' info (taxes, W2's, investment info, etc.). </p>

<p>The ACT is a required part of our state high school merit exam. I helped juniors "bubble" the pre-test stuff. The question that absolutely floored kids was the one that asked family income ... most had no idea at all what their parents make. I could relate ... my kids don't know, either. </p>

<p>We discuss what we can afford to pay for school with our kids. Our kids would not know whether or not we are "shafting" them, though, because we don't show them our financial particulars. I am not saying that it "should" be that way ... just that that is how we prefer to handle it.</p>

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This is something that people from other areas of the country, and/or those who earn a lot less, have a real hard time understanding!

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<p>I keep reading this over to see if I missed something. But I think not. Apparently, poor people don't get how difficult it is to have more money. </p>

<p>If they could, for just one day, walk in the shoes of the affluent, maybe then they'd be a little bit less insensitive.</p>

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The OP’s question is no doubt in part due to the fact that as FAFSA is such an official calculation. Thus, surely it can't be unreasonable. Therefore, his parents are being unreasonable by not matching their expected contribution.

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<p>Well, let's throw out some typical numbers for a $150k income:</p>

<p>*Tax burden (state, federal, property) of about 33%. We're now down to $100k.</p>

<p>*Mortgage could be in a wide range. Let's set it at $20k for the year. Remaining in the pot: $80k</p>

<p>*Retirement savings, $10k. Pot = $70k</p>

<p>*Food ($5k), insurance (medical, property, car: $10k), transportation ($5k). Pot = $50k</p>

<p>*Let's assume no emergencies, no serious medical bills, no dentist above what's in the insurance package. Let's assume nothing goes wrong with anything in the house--no leaky roof, no need to replace a furnace or a broken water main. Nothing goes wrong with anything in the kitchen. The car soldiers on. Because paying for any of these things is going to take another $1k per incident out of the pot. </p>

<p>*Fun stuff which you may take for granted. Cell phones, internet, cable, holiday and birthday presents, going out to dinner or the movies, vacations. Music lessons, sports equipment, allowance, summer programs, senior year activities. Let's be tough as nails and toss all of that. </p>

<p>Typical FAFSA seems to be in the range of 25-33% of income. That's going to be $33-50k. </p>

<p>Oh yes, the FAFSA is clearly entirely reasonable. :)</p>

<p>Yes, I know that some of these numbers might arguably be too high or too low, depending on where a family lives. And yes, I know that the parents should have been saving. It's still an eye-opener for most high schoolers to see where the money goes.</p>

<p>While reasonable, people normally do not give up their "fun stuff". Also, be aware that students also need to buy school supplies, such as textbooks and notebook PCs. They also need money to socialize. There's no good if the student simply studies and unable to participate in social activities.</p>

<p>"But, if they could come up with more, should they? Hmmm..... there are obviously no real guidelines here."</p>

<p>Yes, but here's where we can discuss and debate some principles. It's unfair to make any assumptions about any particular case, because we don't know all the facts. But personally, I have no trouble exercising my judgment and declaring some ideas wrong-headed. I'll throw out a few principles below; assume for the sake of these principles that the student is a good, hard-working student who can be expected to apply himself in college:
1. If your parents paid for your college education, it is cheap for you to refuse to do the same for your child if you are able to pay.
2. Your child's education is more important than a fancy house. Therefore it is hypocritical to carry a mortgage on a fancy house but decline to assume any debt for your child's education.
3. Your child will always be your child. You should help him, including financially, as long as you are reasonably able to do so.
4. Forcing your child to accept a lot of personal debt and to spend all his free time in college working to earn money will not build his character all that much, if it isn't already built.
Obviously, you don't have to agree with these ideas. But I do resist the concept that you can't criticize other people's philosophy.</p>

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You should help him, including financially, as long as you are reasonably able to do so.

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<p>I disagree with this. It is not necessarily in the child's best interest to be helped financially, especially indefinitely, even if the parents can easily afford it.</p>

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2. Your child's education is more important than a fancy house. Therefore it is hypocritical to carry a mortgage on a fancy house but decline to assume any debt for your child's education.

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<p>Some people purchase "fancy" houses (well, houses in fancy areas, at least) in order to buy into a good public school system. Just to make things a little more tangled! Not to mention that the median cost of a house (nonfancy) in my area would buy me a fancy house in some parts of the country.</p>

<p>Maybe replace "a fancy house" with "paying for every one of your desires." I get the intent.</p>

<p>That also assumes that the parents have the attitude that they will pay for their child's education. Clearly there are parents who disagree with this on principle, not on financial grounds, and it matters not whether their parents paid for their education or not. In fact, there are people who, though grateful, in retrospect have concluded their parents did the wrong thing in paying for their education.</p>

<p>12k would pay for my school easily. Heck, if my parents were paying $50 a year, I'd be happy. A lot of parents don't pay one cent.</p>

<p>As it stands, my parents make about $190k per year (my dad works for IBM and my mom is in investment real estate) and are going to pay for my whole schooling...they may be taking out a couple loans, but they've assured me they can handle it (I felt bad at first because I don't want them to have debt forever because of my college). They also told me that I get the same deal as my sister: if I fail a class and have to retake it, I get to pay to retake it.</p>

<p>Ramaswami's posts summarize pretty well how I feel about my son, who is an only child. I do consider it a privilege, and one that makes me happy, to do whatever I can to allow him to have the best education possible and go to the school where he'll be happiest -- which, in his case and given who he is, means the U. of Chicago with its $53K in estimated total costs for the coming year. And I will do everything in my power to see that he is <em>not</em> saddled with huge debt for years to come. I'd rather take out loans myself, and be saddled with debt forever, than permit that to happen.</p>

<p>After all, from my point of view, he's already repaid me a hundredfold for everything I've ever done, or ever can do for him, by being and becoming the loving, wonderful person he is. Of course he's grateful, but no more than I am to him.</p>

<p>I am simply not ever going to be like my father, who is very affluent, but responded to my figuratively begging him recently to help out with my son's education just like all the other affluent Jewish grandparents do (not that I said that!) -- it was the first time I've asked him for a penny in 33 years, since he refused to help me out with $100/month so I could afford to live in a small apartment rather than a boarding house my first year of law school -- by sending an additional $500 above the nominal amount he sent last year. (And, yes, my son did thank him.) </p>

<p>True, my father did pay all of my college expenses at Yale. In those days, however, tuition was, I believe, about $5,000 per year. My father was already making six figures at the time. It was not a burden then. (Besides, my mother was still alive then, and her philosophy was more like mine.) And I know that helping out his only grandchild more would not be a burden now.
In his place, I would do everything I could to help. But it's his decision, and his right to make it, and there's nothing I can do about it.</p>

<p>Which leaves it up to me and my ex.</p>

<p>However, even though my ex and I, together, make what most people would consider a lot of money (> $150,000 per year), and my son is aware of that (although he has no idea what the exact total is), I don't think he had any real idea, until I explained it to him (for instance, by showing him how empty my checking account is at the end of every month!) just how far that doesn't go in the New York City area, especially when, because of divorce, there are two households to support rather than one. </p>

<p>And I also explained that I have no intention of using my retirement monies (unfortunately meager as they are) to pay for his education, particularly since I have some longstanding medical issues that will continue for the rest of my life. </p>

<p>Therefore, I do expect him to take out his $3,500 Stafford Loan this year, and whatever he can in subsequent years, and to work during the summers, and to make whatever he can by working 10-15 hours a week during the school year (although I won't ask him to do that his first term, and maybe even the whole first year). </p>

<p>So he's going to have to contribute something to his own education. I think that's only right, and an important thing for him to learn to do. Because if he goes to graduate school, I'm not sure how much help my ex and I will be able to be.</p>

<p>Still, I view his college tuition as largely his parents' responsibility, as long as we can reasonably afford it. YMMV, and obviously sometimes does.</p>

<p>(And, btw, for divorced parents, there often <em>is</em> a legal obligation, written into the divorce agreement, for the parents to share the cost of college tuition. So dropping their contribution down to zero because they think their kid has a "bad attitude" is simply not an option!)</p>

<p>Donna</p>

<p>Excuse me, but some of you posters seem awfully entitled. I guess that's because many of you are in the top 5% of wage earners in this country. Try making $50,000 a year, have no pension, no assets, and be willing to do anything and everything you can to pay for your child's college education. I don't blame some of your kids for feeling like they're getting shafted. Looks like I'm in for a bashing on this.</p>

<p>It is my strong opinion that if parents have the means, they have the responsibility to send their kid to college they <em>earned</em> admissions at. Now some parents don't have the means and thats' a different story. But many parents choose between Bentley for me or dream education for my offspring and I find that wrong. Asking your parents to pay for education is in no way entitlement syndrome. You should be infinitely grateful for what they pay, and there is a big difference between snobbishly "entitled" and being grateful for frankly what you should get. I will reiterate that this applies to parents with means and add that students do their part with work study and loans. </p>

<p>The OP's parents proposition is strange, as most parents who choose to pay for college pay the EFC and then afterwards, the student loans (stafford, perkins) are on your butt. You should ask your parents to redistribute the funds to fit this scenario and things will seem a lot more affordable, because I know your EFC will be greater than 12k. </p>

<p>But I don't know what the OP's financial situation is beyond their income. Perhaps they are in a lot of debt. Perhaps they have enormous medical bills. So i can't declare in absolute terms what can or should be done.</p>

<p>and danhmom, that's not really anyone's point. if his parents were earning 50,000, he'd be on a full need based ride.</p>

<p>Dahnmom, I understand how you feel. When I worked in financial aid, I was struck by the fact that those who earned the least seemed most willing to sacrifice to give their kids an education. This is not a sweeping generalization, but it is something that I did notice ... and at the time, I was young & childless with no student loans ... so I wasn't looking for a disparity. I just happened to notice it. That's all I'm saying.</p>

<p>ClaySoul, your last point is not correct. We earned less than $50,000 the year before my daughter went to college, and she did not receive full need-based aid from any school she applied to. Granted, she was not accepted at any ivy-league schools where this would have been the case. She was gapped at every school, received some merit aid, and we are still struggling to come up with the difference.</p>

<p>sorry, i was referring to the vast number of schools that guaruntee to meet need (not just ivies)</p>