<p>ClaySoul, the "vast number of schools" do not guarantee to meet 100% of need. Only the most selective do.</p>
<p>I don't know what your people's deal is. I completely respect this kid's view. I see it many times in my town: families with comfortable means of living purchasing new cars and going on expensive vacations only to tell their children that they can only pay x fraction of the cost of college, and then those kids have to take out huge loans / choose schools that they are not happy at for financial reasons. It's ridiculous and unneccesary in my opinion. This kid's family is comfortably middle class (it seems) and I think that he adressing a valid concern about his parent's contribution.</p>
<p>he's UPPER middle class, and unless there are other circumstances, then yeah, durn straight</p>
<p>okay, if not 100%, then 90%. 85%. My first school didn't guaruntee to meet need but almost all of mine was met. Not a super selective school. So I would say vast, yeah.</p>
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I completely respect this kid's view. I see it many times in my town: families with comfortable means of living purchasing new cars and going on expensive vacations only to tell their children that they can only pay x fraction of the cost of college,
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<p>I see it happen too. And as I said, I'm one of the "full pay" type parents. But there's one point you're missing: It's their money.</p>
<p>How much are you willing to sacrifice for your expensive, dream school? Will you give up your iPod, your computer, your car? Are you willing to work 10-15 hours/week during school? Give up spring break trips, clothes, extra food (living solely on the meal plan - no pizza, no Chinese, no dinners out with friends)? No Greek life?</p>
<p>Personally, I don't know many kids who would do that. So while I don't agree with those parents, I can see where they're coming from.</p>
<p>I do think that in our generation, college is an entitlement as much as high school was in the past, with the job market now and more and more people going on to higher education. Most people... at least the people on this forum... can't decide not to go to college and still get a fulfilling, well-paying job. </p>
<p>Besides, I think in 90% of cases... if a family earns $150k and can only "afford" to pay $12k a year, something is going wrong with the finances. You'd be amazed at the 'necessary' expenses that you can cut...</p>
<p>Of course we should feel grateful that our parents are feeding and clothing us, but I think for most of us the idea of parents NOT feeding and clothing us is incomprehensible. That, at least, is an entitlement. And it's hard not to feel that way about an education when so many of us were raised with academics as such a huge priority.</p>
<p>I totally agree though, that the more people earn the less they seem to be willing to sacrifice. Parents, especially affluent parents, can feel entitled to what lifestyle they should have, and of course it IS technically their money. But I agree with Danhmom that entitlement goes both ways.</p>
<p>Electronics have relatively high marginal benefit for low marginal cost (generally speaking).</p>
<p>I mean, one hundred-dollar mp3 player can be useful for so many things -- and you can use it just about anywhere -- music is an essential portion of the human experience. Same goes for a laptop (such is the power of flexible programming). I get less sympathetic with additional toys like handheld Playstations and so forth -- due to their less flexible natures.</p>
<p>A 5000 dollar vacation that lasts one week?</p>
<p>Ah, durable goods, my friends, durable goods.</p>
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How much are you willing to sacrifice for your expensive, dream school? Will you give up your iPod, your computer, your car? Are you willing to work 10-15 hours/week during school? Give up spring break trips, clothes, extra food (living solely on the meal plan - no pizza, no Chinese, no dinners out with friends)? No Greek life?</p>
<p>Personally, I don't know many kids who would do that. So while I don't agree with those parents, I can see where they're coming from.
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<p>I didn't get into my dream school (Yale), but if I had I would have sold my iPod, my car, worked at least 15 hours a week during the school year, never travel, live in t-shirts and jeans and live on ramen if it was the only way.</p>
<p>The computer is a necessity.</p>
<p>Not that I have ever taken a vacation that costs even close to $5000 ... but let me give the "spending money on a vacation" thing a shot: If the parents are taking their family on a trip & the family is enjoying their time together, I think the money is actually very well spent! Memories last a lifetime, and the bonds a family forges together are more important than money.</p>
<p>lets' see, my ipod will cover...4 school books? That bentley will cost...years tuition? not really comparable</p>
<p>i know few students who DON'T work 10-15 hours a week. </p>
<p>it is <em>their money</em> but we are <em>their children</em> and fwiw, we're still dependents on the tax form. </p>
<p>I would personally be delighted to send my child to their dream school because I understand how important it can be to said child.</p>
<p>garland: "I keep reading this over to see if I missed something. But I think not. Apparently, poor people don't get how difficult it is to have more money. </p>
<p>If they could, for just one day, walk in the shoes of the affluent, maybe then they'd be a little bit less insensitive." (don't know how to use the quote code)</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with this post. Although I can see that being rich also comes with its share of difficulties, the opportunities that the wealthy have at their disposal far outweight the opportunities that the poor have, like the financial assistance to hire SAT prep tutors, attend private schools, or visit colleges, etc. I really don't see how the poor have to walk in the shoes of the affluent. Why should they have to walk in the shoes of the wealthy when they can see the differences between themselves and the wealthy everyday? Through the clothes one wears, through the places one shops, the list goes on. Seriously, it is ridiculous the amount of money that is wasted due to luxuries and excesses that really are not needed.</p>
<p>"Apparently, poor people don't get how difficult it is to have more money. </p>
<p>If they could, for just one day, walk in the shoes of the affluent, maybe then they'd be a little bit less insensitive." </p>
<p>I'm thinking that was sarcasm....</p>
<p>I posted fairly early in this thread (Post #20), and I have been keeping an eye on it. </p>
<p>ClaySoul's Post #76 observation, "The OP's parents proposition is strange...," prompted me to take much closer look at OP lgellar's post. After that close look, I came to the tentative conclusion that the meager $12,000/year tuition assistance and promised future $5,000/year educational loan repayment assistance will not be provided by the OP's parents, but by the OP's mother.</p>
<p>The OP's parents both work, and their current AGI is almost $150K. The OP explains, "Their AGI will be over $150K per year soon once my mom starts working full-time." If the OP's mother is presently working part-time, and the family's current AGI is almost $150K, then it's reasonable to conclude that once the OP's mother begins working full-time, most--if not all of her extra earnings--will be spent on the OP's Vanderbilt tuition assistance and future educational loan repayment assistance. </p>
<p>Yes, this situation seems "strange," but there's a plausible explanation. The OP's parents might be battling over where the OP should attend college. For example, if the father insists on full-ride UF, but the mother insists on costly Vanderbilt, then the husband has probably told his wife, "If our son/daughter goes to Vanderbilt, then you go to work full-time and help him/her pay for it, because I won't pay a cent!" In this context, the "strange" situation makes some sense. (There are other possible scenarios.) </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the OP--whose academic and financial future hangs in the balance--is stuck in the middle of a parental battle, wonders how other families handle such a situation, is probably too embarrassed to discuss it with friends, and finally decides to post on CC, where his (or her) anonymity is assured. </p>
<p>Again, I maintain that there is a power struggle going on in the OP's family which has manifested in the OP's present college selection/financial assistance dilemma. Only the OP knows the details, but the OP has chosen not to reveal those details, so the rest of us can only speculate about what is really going on to create this "strange" situation. It would be helpful if the OP posted again, but after having been vilified as spoiled, selfish, whining, and "entitled," I can understand why the OP has vanished from this thread.</p>
<p>I just don't GET this. If a parent can do it, why would they not spend the money on their kids education that will probably make them very happy. What and why is it me first? I frankly don't get this about any person.</p>
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If a parent can do it, why would they not spend the money on their kids education that will probably make them very happy.
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<p>Because some parents value and want to teach their kids self-sufficiency and self-reliance, as they have learned that being self-sufficient and self-reliant can lead one to happiness, and one way they do this is to make the kid responsible for securing college funding, especially for college funding beyond State U tuition. Getting what you want from someone else can make you dependent and insecure; getting what you want through your own efforts can make you independent and secure.</p>
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What and why is it me first?
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<p>Now this is funny! It's okay for the kid to be "me first," but not, after having raising a child to adulthood, the parents?! Geez!</p>
<p>BTW, I love the (false) dichotomy you set up -- Bentley for the parents/education for the kids. How many Bentleys do you see on the road where you are? I don't see any. Maybe they just aren't popular in the DC area.</p>
<p>TimeCruncher, the OP's parents AGI will be close to 150K AFTER the mother starts working full-time (according to the kid); it's not that now.</p>
<p>There are lots of things we don't know about the situation -- how old his parents are, how well-positioned they are financially for retirement, how long his parents have been earning at this level, whether the parents have responsibility for other adults (such as their own parents), whether the parents are paying off their own student loans, and so on. Indeed, the OP may not be privy to all the details of the family's finances.</p>
<p>It may come as a surprise to some kids, but funding retirement is often seen as their parents as a greater responsibility than funding college. No one is going to lend parents money for their retirement, after all. </p>
<p>My son, a HS freshman, and I have talked about college finances off and on throughout his life. He understood some years ago that I have to fund my retirement first. As much as I value providing funds for his college education, I value not being a financial burden on him in my old age even more.</p>
<p>you can learn self reliance and still receive help with your education. You are hard pressed if your efc is 50k to find funding for a need aid based school. teaching your kids reliance and intentionally being hard on them so they'll "learn" are very different things. how about pay for the kids books, room, board, and tuition, and they work to pay everything else? that too is self reliance, but in a much, much more age-appropriate way. </p>
<p>an 18 year old is an adult in that they are capable of making their own decisions but few are realistically able to make it in the world on their own. it's that iffy limbo where you want freedom but need help. This throw them in the deep end concept is bull ****. sure, they'll learn fast, but they can just as easily and a lot more comfortably take it one step at a time. </p>
<p>i don't consider it "me first" for a kid to want help with education because i believe that generosity is a responsibility on the part of everyone, but especially when one has the means and position to do it. i guess i just seriously value an educational experience more than you do. or maybe my parents instilled the values of charity in me, and the joy of helping others rather than yourself. i see it as "me first" for a parent because why would they rather give themselves to something material thing, for instance, than give their kids to something real like their dream school? Like I said there's a mental disconnect. I don't get it. I don't get selfish people. And yeah, I think it's selfish. Parents who render their kids without need but will not help put them in a terrible spot because they severely limit their college choice because students are simply unable to pay for them unless they are really lucky and able to scrape together dozens of usually small merit loans (the largest merit scholarship i qualified for in my state was 3k. shall i win 15 of those or shall my mom and dad just help me out like they can)</p>
<p>It's not a false dichotomy whatsoever. My friends father bought a 100k lexus but won't pay for college</p>
<p>I am so SICK of this conversation</p>
<p>(disclaimer: this applies to those with means and without mitigating factors)</p>
<p>Timecruncher: nope, that'd still be strange. a grown man power-of-the-pursing someone is strange.</p>
<p>okay and this talk of lending money for retirement v college? no one will lend a teenager 45k for 4 years! </p>
<p>if your parents pay 0 you have to get a huge amount in independent scholarships, many of which are need-based and therefore moot. it can be done by why do that to somebody?</p>
<p>and there are plenty of parents posh for retirement who still refuse to pay. how do you explain that away?</p>
<p>You know what, how about we send all our kids into the jungles to survive for a year on their own. That'll teach them self-reliance too, right? Who cares if it ****s their life over, they'll know self-reliance.</p>
<p>Another fallacious argument, randombetch, but thanks for playing!</p>
<p>ClaySoul, </p>
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you can learn self reliance and still receive help with your education.
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<p>Sure. And the OP is receiving help with his education.</p>
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i guess i just seriously value an educational experience more than you do. or maybe my parents instilled the values of charity in me, and the joy of helping others rather than yourself.
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<p>Kindly don't assume facts not in evidence. Thanks.</p>
<p>The intent of my posts is not to give you insight into what <em>I</em> personally believe or do. It's to try to give you some ideas as to what others might be thinking, why some parents do what they do. I suggest you read "The Millionaire Next Door." It's an easy, quick read, and might give you a look at a perspective that you needn't share, of course, but might come to realize is one way other people might think about things.</p>
<p>
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Parents who render their kids without need but will not help put them in a terrible spot because they severely limit their college choice because students are simply unable to pay for them unless they are really lucky and able to scrape together dozens of usually small merit loans (the largest merit scholarship i qualified for in my state was 3k. shall i win 15 of those or shall my mom and dad just help me out like they can)
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<p>Yes, a kid's college choice may be limited. You don't like that; I understand that. But that is the reality for many, and whether you like it or not, other people have different ideas than you do as to what is appropriate funding for college.</p>
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and there are plenty of parents posh for retirement who still refuse to pay.
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<p>And you know they are "posh for retirement"... how, exactly?! </p>
<p>Well, you don't know, of course. How could you possibly know what each family's situation is? I have friends I've been friends with for over 30 years, and <em>I</em> don't know whether they are "posh for retirement" or not! I certainly wouldn't try to second-guess what they do or do not offer their children in the way of college funding; it's interesting that you think you have enough information to make such judgments about other people's parents. I'm sure you are very familiar with the cost of, say, medical insurance, nursing care, and home ownership costs, right? You know just how much someone's retirement is going to cost, and whether they have enough to pay for it. (Nice trick!)</p>