<p>
[quote]
Except the five-year-old won't be able to climb the same tree his parent could put him on.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course he could. Could I put him on a tree he couldn't climb? Maybe (but given the size of my kid when he was five, unlikely!), but it's better overall for him to climb the tree himself. That's how he learns he can, how he learns how. Why would I deprive him of that opportunity?</p>
<p>hmm just playing with the metaphor---if the five yr old wouldn't be able to climb the same tree his parent put him on maybe he doesn't actually belong there. what does he do to continue climbing after the parents drop him off and go back home. just a thought--I'm a big believer in our kids knowing themselves and identifying where they need to be--(was never into those ridiculous flashcards for toddlers either--pushing our kids for our own end--kids will show you what they want to learn :-D</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Some would say education is not just about a "job"
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Dah, parents need to get jobs to pay for kids' tuition, right? Yes, some parents do not need jobs because of their inheritances, however, once upon a time, their ancestors had jobs to pass along the inheritances. How can someone downplay the importance of a job?<br>
There are many ways to learn and Wall Street Journal online is free now. You do not have to go to DUKE to be with the elitist crowd in order to learn. How can we be more real here?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Of course he could. Could I put him on a tree he couldn't climb?
[/quote]
There are many trees in a forest. A five year old could not have known which one is the tallest to climb even though he has the ability to climb.
I agree with Randombetch:
[quote]
Except the five-year-old won't be able to climb the same tree his parent could put him on. Instead of being able to climb the tree of Harvard, he'll end up climbing the tree of Penn State.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I thought it was Stanford that had the tree?</p>
<p>No it's Princeton that has the tree. And Randombetch is being put in the tree by other people's parents as she has a full ride there based on the fact that her mother earns $11,000 a year and her father has financial problems and is not contributing. I can't figure out why she posts all over this forum with such bitterness about other people's parents when she is getting a full ride.</p>
<p>No, Princeton has a tiger. Stanford has the tree. Unless Cal has the axe :)</p>
<p>owlice: </p>
<p>well a plasma tv may make them happy too, but it's not important</p>
<p>an education and the experience therein is infinitely important. so it's a worthwhile thing to help your children with, and should be done.</p>
<p>"I thought education is an investment."</p>
<p>Why did you think that? What made you think it was just about the money?</p>
<p>"How can we be more real here?"</p>
<p>What does that mean exactly?</p>
<p>I purposely wrote "some would say" because I'm not sure WHAT to think. I DO think I learned stuff at howard University outside of the classroom than in, from being around people like I had never met before, and have never met again. It had nothing to do with academics, or elitism, it was just a different experience for me, and in a different part of the country.</p>
<p>Considering most of our parents worked through college, and their parents gave them $0.
I'll get $10,000 a year, and that's a substantial contribution. My parents could have spent that on a nicer house, better car or an exotic vacation.
I've worked all of high school, and I know the true value of a $40,000 college fund.
Also, why should a parent save up that much money, when there are many affordable options for students? A student can work til 24, then go to school w/FA based on their income, after saving up a good chunk of change. You can pay a few thousand dollars and got to CC for two years and transfer. Go to a lesser school and get a full ride, or go right into the work force.
The feeling of entitlement is the root of many problems in society today, and it's a shame.</p>
<p>The problem with parents putting their children in trees is that they become dependent upon daddy putting them higher and higher in the tree and they are delayed in learning tree climbing skills. Not to mention the fact that they are not in control of being in the tree (getting down safely is often harder than getting up) and this only reinforces the dependency on daddy for placement in the tree.</p>
<p>Parents are there to make sure the kid doesn't take unnecessary risks in life (like taking on a boatload of college debt that they can never pay off or using a rickety stepladder to climb a tree), but ultimately the kid has to have skin in the game. </p>
<p>In terms of personal growth, the product of any parent child endeavor is a function of both parties inputs. The more risk a child takes (both personal and financial) the greater the rewards. A parent's contribution to the extent that it leverages the child's risk yields geometrically positive rewards. To the extent that it supplants a child's contribution, it diminishes the rewards geometrically.</p>
<p>I think the OP's parents are taking a position (requiring the child to take on some debt) that makes the child evaluate his/her level of committment to the endeavor and the risks s/he is willing to take. The offer to contribute to the retirement of debt is a form of risk mitigation (I assume based upon the completion of the degree) that encourages the child not to waste his time/money and shop for value as the resource (amount paid both up front and in debt assistance) is limited.</p>
<p>Now granted, many kids don't understand the value of money and have little idea of how hard it is to retire debt, especially if you drop out and have to take a lower paying job. This kind of offer might teach much in the management of educational investment money to those kids. You've got to understand how saavy your kid is before making this type of offer.</p>
<p>As to randombetch, I'll agree she has issues and it is hard to get her to be constructive in these discussions. Typical trolling.</p>
<p>Yes.. my parents are paying for everything and they make like 1/4 of what your parents make</p>
<p>Honestly, if my parents had $12k a year to give me and agreed to pay off my loans afterward, it'd be beyond nice. Seriously, be grateful for what you have. It's kind of a lot.</p>
<p>If there aren't mitigating factors and your parents can actually spend more than they say they can, then okay, that's not entirely fair. But I think it's very likely that they're being honest and realistic about what they can afford. Cheer up, realize how very, very fortunate you are and go public for virtually nothing.</p>
<p>overall, you should be thankful that they're willing to pay at all, though that sounds pretty cheap of them to pay that little of your tuition when they make that much.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
"I thought education is an investment."</p>
<p>Why did you think that? What made you think it was just about the money?
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Why didn't you think that? What made you think it wasn't just about the money? Everything has a price, priceless is also type of price.
You can gain experience on Howard University, you can also gain experience by backpacking and traveling through Europe. There are interesting people in every corner of the world.</p>
<p>"Considering most of our parents worked through college, and their parents gave them $0."</p>
<p>College was significantly cheaper (yes, when inflation is taken into account) making it markedly more feasible to work your way through college. Furthermore, many more schools gave merit aid instead of only need based aid that many don't qualify for. I believe in the need aid system, but because I believe that everyone should pay what they can. I also believe there are significant flaws in the system, for the record. I believe in the principle.</p>
<p>ClaySoul,</p>
<p>
[quote]
an education and the experience therein is infinitely important. so it's a worthwhile thing to help your children with, and should be done.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not downplaying the importance of education. I just happen to know that getting an education doesn't happen just in a classroom, and it doesn't happen just because it's purchased with parental money.</p>
<p>goaliedad,</p>
<p>Great post!</p>
<p>It seems more is at stake on this thread than just paying for college education. Significant differences in philosophy exist here to.</p>
<p>For the record, right now I am not judging this divide, just observing it.</p>
<p>On one hand, we have the Protestant ethos of the value of hard work, that we're entitled to nothing, that desire itself is suspect, that "many are called, but few are chosen."</p>
<p>On the other hand, we have the Catholic ethos of the value of faith over good works and the inclusiveness of salvation.</p>
<p>I feel like I am back in the religious wars of the 16th and 17th centuries.</p>
<p>Difference in philosophy cannot be resolved on a thread like this. They permeated an entire life and are often expressed in the political arena as well.</p>
<p>And the thread could go on as long as CC exists.</p>
<p>For the record: I am not saying these ideas line up with the actual religious denominations of the posters. I am just saying that they line up with traditional theological positions.</p>
<p>Of course, the protestant ethos defined the founding of America (and how!)
and is consistent with capitalism. See the classic texts: Protestantism and the Ethos of Capitalism (Weber) and Religion and the Rise of Capitalism (Tawney.)</p>
<p>Ideas that we think are personal and original are really the result of historical circumstance and social conditioning.</p>
<p>This doesn't mean they're wrong. And because the US is the most capitalistic country in the world, this ideas probably do fit with the national ethos and prepare a child to complete here.</p>
<p>By nature I am "a Catholic." (Not by religion or birth.) My mother was strongly one persuasion: Work for it but don't expect anything. Especially from me. I am of the other: Love is best and giving as much as I can is best.</p>
<p>I will admit that I think my kids are a bit slower in developing independence. However, I think (perhaps wrongly) that their ultimate flowering will be richer. And each wants to give back to society all they have been given. One wants to do prison reform and oppose the death penalty and the other wants to go into medicine for humanitarian reasons. Therefore, I want them to have everything they need to retain every bit of their humanity and joy because I know they will share them with others. I will admit that sometimes it is at the expense of their independence.</p>
<p>I am sure I would feel differently if they were entitled little brats who wanted tons of material goods and saw college as a vehicle to keg parties and a cushy I-banking position so they could make oodles of money and have a very lavish life style.</p>
<p>However, that isn't the case.</p>
<p>I understand, others feel differently.</p>
<p>mythmom, </p>
<p>Another great post! Indeed, parents have different philosophies and that's what I was trying to point out; you succeeded where I failed.</p>
<p>Of course, there are many intermediate positions between the two philosophies you have outlined above, as observed from the OP's situation. I fall between the two, also, as do many other parents without the means, or desire, to offer full college funding.</p>