Arguing over course selections

Parents Forum
1

<p>Parents, I need your help. DS (1st semester freshman in fall 2013) registered for his college courses yesterday. The university insisted upon the students doing this with a school advisor and without a parent. So when DS shows me what courses he registered for, he had picked 2 junior (300) level courses (one of which is not even required for his major) that have prerequisites he of course had not met because this will be his first semester there. Also, he did not register for the English 100 course that is required in one of the first two semesters. And on that note, if he did not score well enough on the placement test (everyone is required to take them), he will have to take a remedial English course in 1st semester before taking the Eng 100 in 2nd semester. He did not know his placement test results because they were not available to him on the day he chose his courses. He did not bring this up with the advisor.</p>

<p>When I informed him of the fact that those two courses were not meant for freshman, he eventually blows up and says, "Well, I think the advisor knows more than you about what courses I may take." Mind you, I've read through all of the requirements for his major, emphasis, and for the BA degree in the student handbook. Each time things get heated, I end the discussion because I do not want to argue with him over this.</p>

<p>After trying to broach the subject several times, and it ending up in a shouting match, I've given up. </p>

<p>I've tried to explain to him that he has to be very diligent about completing the required courses in 4 years because his scholarship ends in 4 years, and we will not be able to afford to pay for another year since will have 2 kids in college at that time. </p>

<p>Does anyone have any advice for me on how to discuss this with DS without him feeling like I'm trying to control his course choices? He has made a flashcard for every course he must take to complete his degree, and each card has the prereqs on it. He took the cards for the courses for 1st semester with him when he registered, but somehow ventured away from the decision to stick with that plan. I am upset with the advisor because she allowed him to sign up for courses that have prereqs which he has not met, a course that is not required for his major, and allowed him to not sign up for any gen ed courses. That's neither here nor there. At this point, I need help on how to approach this with DS. Any advice would be helpful.</p>

<p>Val</p>

2

<p>Im surprised the system allowed him to register for classes that he did not have placement scores or prerequisites for.
Usually it would kick the schedule out.
Is he in a STEM major? Those seem more critical as to starting with the pre- reqs right away.
Perhaps he is already rethinking his choice of major?</p>

3

<p>1) Does the school use an online (or similar) system for course registration? I f so, it would be impossible for him to register for courses without the prerequisites.</p>

<p>2) Did he give a reason for not scheduling the English comp course? Also, what is the likelihood that he will have to take the remedial course (you mentioned he was a scholarship student)?</p>

<p>3) A freshman taking upper level courses is not at all uncommon</p>

<p>As far as advice, from your post it seemed like most of the conversations entailed you telling him that he must do this or that, instead of asking why. If you want to convince him to change his schedule, you have to at least try to be persuasive.</p>

4

<p>Son is not a STEM major. He is not thinking about changing his major either. He iwill be studying music composition and registered for ALL music courses, so that is indication that he is not thinking of changing his major. </p>

<p>The school does us an online system for registration, but I guess they do not have a cross-check for prerequisites. </p>

<p>No, I did not tell him that he must do this or that. We discussed his course plan prior to registration, and he was satisfied with his plan. I did ask his rationale for choosing the courses. I have mentioned to him the prereqs for the 300 level courses, asked him if he understood that 1 course is not required for his major, and inquired about why he did not feel it necessary to take the gen ed Eng 100 that he planned to take. His response is, “My advisor said… and I think she know more than you.”</p>

<p>The likelihood of him having to take remedial English - not sure. He received a music scholarship, so the emphasis was on talent rather than academic achievement …although he had a 3.87 GPA and a 1950 on the SAT. He took an AP Eng Lang & Comp class in high school but decided before the class started not to take the exam. Since he is home-educated, he is allowed to do so. His intention for taking the class was never to take the test and test out of freshman comp. He took it simply to be challenged in a writing course. He made a high B in the class. So he may or may not need remedial English.</p>

5

<p>Im curious at how you derive a GPA for home educated students.
Did you use a third party for coursework?</p>

6

<p>Since you are footing the bill, getting done in an expeditious fashion is not irrelevant. I am unsurprised that the system did not catch the prereqs – both S1 and S2’s university allowed them to register for classes that they did not meet the requirements for. You just can’t assume it. Most college advising is atrocious.</p>

<p>I would stop trying to persuade your son that he’s done something wrong, and just cut to the chase. You don’t feel he meets the requirements (and he doesn’t) for the prereq classes (the remedial English class is most likely to just work itself out, and lots of students take classes that are not required). Tell him you’d like him to email the advisor, copy you on the email and fw’d you any response. He should ask to verify that he is to take these classes even considering he doesn’t meet the requirements. Take all the blame. Be the hovering mom. Tell him it’s a non-negotiable favor. And then if the advisor says this is a wonderful idea, believe her/him. And if he struggles with the classes, smile sweetly and say you are so very very sorry that he’s having to work so hard.</p>

7

<p>A high B in an AP Eng course, home taught or not, is no where near the level of needing a remedial course. Remedial courses tend to be for ESL and learning disabled kids who write like third graders. Why would you even think that was a possibility for your son?</p>

<p>I would encourage your son to go back over to the college registrar’s office, and ask if someone can help him sort out his choices. If he mentions that he realized later his advisor allowed him to choose courses he doesn’t meet the pre-req for, someone in the registrar’s office will roll their eyes and be frustrated with that advisor, not your son! (Sometimes advisors are adjuncts, or newer hires, who don’t know as much as they should) He should do this soon, before courses he DOES need are filled.</p>

8

<p>Im curious at how you derive a GPA for home educated students.
Did you use a third party for coursework? </p>

<p>I grade all coursework done at home just like a teacher in a brick-and-mortar school does. In high school (because we knew he was college bound) my son took most courses from 3rd party sources: online courses with live instructors who graded all work and issued final grades; courses (dual enrollment) at our community college. </p>

<p>There are several ways to home-educate. Unschooling (loosest form of teaching) to traditional (school at home). We are traditional for the most part. Even if an unschooled student were to make a 1950 (not the best but well above the national average) on the SAT, a GPA would not matter.</p>

9

<p>I agree with greenbutton. I would suggest that you write an email to your son, he can read this privately and without emotions clouding his thoughts. Write out each course that he has registered for and the prerequisites. Also write out your thoughts on the English courses. Then suggest that he either email this to the advisor or go to the registrars office. Maybe if it is in writing and he can take time to study it, he will be more cooperative.</p>

10

<p>A high B in an AP Eng course, home taught or not, is no where near the level of needing a remedial course. Remedial courses tend to be for ESL and learning disabled kids who write like third graders. Why would you even think that was a possibility for your son?</p>

<p>teachandmom - I did not know what to expect. Before my son began to take courses at the community college (to fulfill his high school credits), he had to take placement tests and scored very high on all of them. It was recommended that he enroll in honors English courses, so at first I did not think he’d place into remedial with these new placement tests. However, I did not want to be too confident and wanted him to understand the implications in scheduling in case he does have to take remedial. </p>

<p>His AP English course was outsourced through a online course provider. </p>

<p>I want him to go back to the advisor, but he is not receptive to that at this time. He thinks that I’m wrong and she’s right. I guess I need to let the air clear first then re-approach the subject.</p>

11

<p>OP - doesn’t his school require electives? I’m assuming his random class would count towards one of them. It’s not like it would be getting taken for nothing. </p>

<p>If he was taking AP english my guess is he does not need a remedial english course.</p>

<p>Also, i took 300 level courses without meeting the pre-req’s also. Most of the time you need approval from the prof to do this but not always. I accidently signed up for Physics two without taking Physics one first and nothing stopped me. Oops!</p>

12

<p>Depending on the course, some prereqs are recommended, but not essential. At my school, there were some courses with prereqs that were required–ie, organic chem I before II, calc I before II, etc.–but for some of the social sciences courses, they really weren’t necessary. Think about whether this is a course that falls into the I/II/III type of class or the ‘music of the 1940s’ type of class.</p>

<p>In terms of the English course, he may be planning to take it in the second semester for whatever reason (difficulty, time offered, professor, etc.), and as long as he completes it in the required timeframe, does it really matter whether he takes it in the fall or the spring?</p>

<p>Many students take classes that are not 100% for the major because they are interested in them, and that’s definitely something that’s okay. Some students take 100% business courses if they’re a business major because that’s all they enjoy, but some students may love business but also want to try out a course in history because they like that too, or a seminar that sounds interesting, etc. etc</p>

<p>College isn’t this super rigid structure where you have to take courses A, B, C, and D in first semester, E, F, G, and H in second semester, so forth and so on, unless you’re in a very structured major (think engineering at many schools). Sometimes you can take A, E, 1, and D first semester and B, C, F, and G second semester.</p>

13

<p>Well, we had something similar happen. D went to orientation this week and they registered for classes. She had a 4 year plan that showed her what core courses to take and how many GEs to take</p>

<p>When we picked her up the next day, she said that she registered for 12 credits, rather than the 15 needed to graduate in 4 years. When I told her she would now be off track to graduate in 4 years, she said that the counselor saw her schedule and said it was OK. I responded that the counselor wasnt paying for her college and doesn’t care whether she graduates in 4 years or 5!</p>

<p>So now she has to wait until open enrollment at the end of July to ass a GE course! I told her to have about 6 classes in mind because she will most definitely not get her first choice at that late date. Hopefully she can find something suitable.</p>

<p>I toyed with calling the school myself and raising a fuss about the bad advising, but my H says to back off. It just reinforces for me that advising is not all it should be</p>

14

<p>I would recommend he email his advisor and say “by the way I noticed that I don’t have the prerequisites for these classes which I signed up for can you confirm that these classes are OK?” and see what she answers. better he finds out now that these are not the right classes than after a week into the class when he needs to change his schedule and all the classes are filled up!</p>

15

<p>Keep in mind the add/drop time period after classes start. This is when some students will be “class shopping”. Different sections will have different instructors with different exams/quizzes and different curves. Closed classes will open and sometimes different labs/discussions/sections will open or close depending upon enrollment.</p>

<p>As your student gets more familiar with the school they will develop a better “plan” for enrollment procedures. It always helps to ask an upperclassman who has been through it for advice, even with regards to advisors. All my kiddos switched advisors at least once. And add/drop scenario was crazy.</p>

<p>He has time. You can explain to him that you don’t want to waste his. My kiddos (5 of them) all took classes that were not for their major or minor. They took them because they wanted to learn about that particular subject. Sometimes they wanted to because of WHO was teaching rather than the subject matter, Nobel prize winner, famous author, Pulitzer winner, cabinet member…the list is long. They all managed to graduate on time, and well-educated. </p>

<p>Kat</p>

16

<p>College advising leaves a lot to be desired. They get away with it because kids are not well versed in dealing with incompetence and get pushed around.</p>

17

<p>I would encourage you to keep talking to your DS. We has a similar situation, where my DS registered at his school and when he told me his choices I was shocked. Only 2 matched what I thought he would register for and the advisor had put him into 2 upper level courses due to his AP classes. I did not fight with him to change anything and it was a mistake i will not repeat. Long story, but he was not prepared for the upper level courses and after failing two exams, he was also feeling overwhelmed as a freshman. We did pay for a private tutor to help him pass the one upper level course and the other one he went to office hours twice a week to just hear the information repeated again. It was not the start to a freshman year that either of us wanted. When he registered for spring, I picked his courses and he went to the advisor with them. The advisor tried to change two of them but by then my son had enough guts to say “no”. The spring semester was so much better and built his confidence back up.</p>

18

<p>D1 took a 300 level art history course because the topic was interesting to her. She struggled through that course because most students were art history major and she was a math major. She ended up spending more time on that course than any other course to barely get a B. </p>

<p>A lot of high achieving first year students make the mistake of taking higher level courses they are not prepared for. College courses also move at a faster pace than high school courses because they have shorter period and they have more material to cover. I wouldn’t even advise students to use their AP courses to be placed out of intro STEM courses. A lot of students have a hard time adjusting to the first semester of college, it may even be more challenging for your son since he was home schooled, so I would really try to take it slow first and not be overwhelmed. </p>

<p>There seem to be certain dynamic between you and your son for you to have a rational discussion with him. It maybe helpful to have another adult or current college student to speak with him.</p>

19

<p>OP, a warning, you’re “helicoptering” here.</p>

20

<p>No warning needed on the ‘helicoptering’. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m a helicopter parent. I don’t see anything wrong with it when you have children who need more guidance than others. DS is not a forward thinker. </p>

<p>Hey, my children are on my watch from birth through some point in undergrad when they begin to ‘get it’. This DS has not begun to ‘get it’ yet, so I still feel responsible. I give him room to grow, but I also recognize the fact that he still needs lots of help.</p>