Ariel Sharon significant stroke.........

College Confidential Community
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<p>It's politics. They don't want the Palestinians; they want a pawn to use against Israel. </p>

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<p>It's a funny thing about Israeli leaders. It's to the Palestinian authority's advantage when they are hard-liners. Arafat and his type benefited from the conflict; they were 'freedom fighters.' Why did Arafat reject Barak's proposal in 2000? It's because there is much more to gain as the leader of the heroic reistance than as the head-of-state of some tiny, destitute nation.</p>

<p>Anyway, what is a Zionist fanatic? What can an Israeli leader to, except protect the existence of Israel? Should the Israelis just get up and leave the Middle East? The formation of Israel was very problematic, but it has been more than fifty years since then. If there is one party that refuses to live in peace, it is the Palestinians. They were ejected from their land as a result of Arab invasions of Israel, by the way.</p>

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<p>sharon - he went after hammas and hezbollah, terrorists, israel shoudl react for the deaths of their innocences, however when israel kills an innocent man by accident it is always condoned, and when they condon the palestinians make fun for it is a sign of weakness they believe, i have never seen an israeli happy after the death of a non-terrorist palestinian, he wanted not to jsut give away the land but wiat until the proper time, he was tough, tougher than most, however the other peace negotiations have failed, israle should have mroe land than currently and it was promised in 1948,</p>

<h2><b>please tell me as amesricans ahve we given back our whole land to the native americans?</b> no, has tebbit become a nation and freed, terroties change leaders, but in fact the sirealis were the first ones there and if the muslims had never destroyed the temple then this might not even be an issue</h2>

<p>What THE.HELL. are you going on about? "please tell me as amesricans ahve we given back our whole land to the native americans?" No. But you should give IRAQ back to the Iraqis. Does having done something HORRIBLE make it justified to CONTINUE DOING IT?</p>

<p>So Palestanian military personnell are "terrorists" and the Israeli military is "innocent"?</p>

<p>Everytime I hear: But it's our land, the Palestanians should go away... please give me a f*ing break. The fact the your ancestors may have lived somewhere and THEN MOVED (not a few years ago--- but a few thousand years ago) doesn't make you the owner of that place. Why don't we all just go and invade Africa because that's where human beings are claimed to have been from. MOVE ON. MOVE ON. MOVE ON. Jeebus! Freaking hell! </p>

<p>The Israeli government (with backup from the most powerful military forces) has committed far more gruesome crimes against Palestanians than the Palestanian government has against Israelis and -every statistic- supports that. Israel's government is... one of the last remains of the gruesome European Imperialism, and a heightened American Imperialism which simply wanted to gain a strategic position in an increasingly important region, and at the same //get rid of the jews/make them little pawns// by convincing them that it would be totally OK to SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND. This is an over-simplified run-down of something that took many years to shape into the horrendous 'thing' that it is now. Israel uses it's own citizens as pawns, and many of its citizens refuse to see this.</p>

<p>And for all the Israelis that think =Iran= is their mortal enemy:</p>

<p>Cyrus The Great
Cyrus II, Kourosh in Persian, Kouros in Greek
(580-529 BC) was the first Achaemenid Emperor (The first and foremost king of Iran). He founded Persia by uniting the two original Iranian Tribes.</p>

<p>"In 539 BCE he allowed more than 40,000 Jews to leave Babylon and return to Palestine. This step was in line with his policy to bring peace to Mankind. A new wind was blowing from the east, carrying away the cries and humility of defeated and murdered victims, extinguishing the fires of sacked cities, and liberating nations from slavery."</p>

<p>Current President of the State of Israel: Moshe Katsav (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Katsav%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Katsav&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>born in Yazd, Iran: 1945</p>

<p>Former President of Islamic Republic of Iran: Mohammad Khatami (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khatami%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khatami&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>born in Yazd, Iran: 1943</p>

<p>ps. I'm Iranian. I am not "anti-jew" <em>rolls eyes</em>... As a muslim, the brothers Ismael(Ishmael) and Is'haaq(Isaac) were the children of Abraham, are both honoured. I am anti-zionism as some jews I know are (I don't lie). </p>

<p>Iranians aren't obsessed with Israel. Ok, maybe we kind of are but it makes sense because some of forefront people in the Israeli movement were Iranian jews. This is not about religion, it's about --POLITICAL injustice-- sponsored by the world's greatest super-powers and HUAMN BEINGS in palestine (Muslims, Christians, Jews, ...) have suffered terribly because of it.</p>

<p>"When good men do nothing, evil prevails."</p>

<p>There are no good men in this game. It's in people's hands.</p>

<p>"Sharon's conditions worsens......."</p>

<p>Eh. Maybe he should stop eating fast food?</p>

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<p>^^ Well said <em>applaud</em></p>

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<p>More Palestinians than Israelis have died because the IDF is militarily superior to the various militant groups of the Palestinians. That does not make the Palestinians 'better' than the Israelis. The relevant question is: who is initiating the violence? Israel is not an Imperialistic state. It is not attempting to expand its territory. Ask yourself how Israel came to possess Gaza and the West Bank: failed Arab invasion!</p>

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And for all the Israelis that think =Iran= is their mortal enemy:

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<p>That is ancient history, not modern geopolitics. Persia was quite an empire, by the way. I do not think that Iran is the mortal enemy of Israel (nor am I an Israeli). I do not support America's antagonistic attitude towards Iran. Iran does, however, support terrorist organizations that kill Israeli civillians.</p>

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If you're saying that all land is up to grabs since no race inherently "owns" land in the world then you're basically advocating imperialism. By saying that Israel and Palestinian should compete for land in the Sinai area, you are basically spelling the end of the Palestinians. If Israel really wanted to, it could steamroll right through the West Bank/Gaza Strip and completely occupy it in addition to annexing the territories to Israel in a matter of days. The fact that Israel has not gone on and proceeded with such an occupation shows how resilient and patient the Sharon, Rabat, etc. administrations have been with Arafat and the Palestinian terrorists the Palestinian leader has supported for decades. Everything Israeli incursion into Palestinian territories has been as a result of and retaliation to terrorist operations by groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO, etc., who think that it is justified to kill innocent Israelis. Therefore, every act of violence Israel has committed is justified in the name of preserving the Israeli state and giving a sense of security to the Jewish people. In addition, Sharon has been the greatest supporter of the 2-state plan that the Bush administrated presented to solve this Middle East crisis. Without Sharon, I fear that Netanyahu, ALawi, and others will now undermine this Middle East peace proposal and renewed bloodshed will be the consequence...</p>

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<p>Does anybody know when a majority of the Jewish population of Israel actually came to Israel?...try during WWII and after the Holocaust...it's no one's original homeland....if you want to go to original home lands it's probably some South Asian/Northern African tribes'.....furthermore, all 3 religions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, originated in the area and all 3 consider Jeruselum a significant part of their early histories....Jews turned to Christians, Christians turned to Muslims, Jews turned to Muslims, Muslims turned to Christians, people intermarried, converts were blood related to members of other religions....it was all intermixed!....it's all about the ruling class....because neither side can control themselves from opressing the other......the state needs to strengthen up with some nonbias or atleast nonopressive officials...they needa increase their scope of authority, increase efficiency, and implement their decisions with a monopoly on the means of violence.....it's not about religion or homelands...it's about identities and fear of opression...past wars and present woes.....work together and something'll happen, otherwise you'll be stuck in a samsara of conflict until one of the nationalities are totally wiped out....which won't happen, since the term Palestinian doesn't have any set identity...</p>

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<p>Then this picture explains the entire history of Sharon, LOL!
<a href="http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2004/02/13/sharon.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2004/02/13/sharon.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Just curious, you seem to hate Sharon very much, but what about Arafat? Was he a saint? Was he not responsible also for vile, reprehensible acts?
Even if Sharon did terrible things, I don't blame him, I'm sure he never meant to do them. Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others. He wished only to defend his motherland. Think of after 9/11 how some Americans were so angry, they'd go after innocent people here of Arab origin or even people that looked Arab.</p>

<p>Most of society reviles Hitler for his reponsibility in World War II and the Holocaust for example, but it totally wasn't his fault. Britian for example, let Hitler take Czechoslovakia for example to appease him and try not to start another world war. The Allied Powers didn't interfere until it was too late.</p>

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The relevant question is: who is initiating the violence?

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<p>The Palestinians attack because they want their land back. Do you expect them to do nothing and be nationless?</p>

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Just curious, you seem to hate Sharon very much, but what about Arafat? Was he a saint? Was he not responsible also for vile, reprehensible acts?

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<p>Did you ever see a post of mine praising Arafat? I specifically stated in my previous post that Sharon was no better than Arafat; Sharon is a Zionist terrorist. I hope that answers your question.</p>

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<p>"Even if Sharon did terrible things,
I don't blame him,
I'm sure he never meant to do them.
Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others.
He wished only to defend his motherland."</p>

<p>Wait... are you trying to justify something? or something?
Because that just...O_o what the...</p>

<p>**"Even if Hitler did terrible things, I don't blame him, I'm sure he never meant to do them. Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others. He wished only to defend his motherland."</p>

<p>"Even if Bush did terrible things, I don't blame him, I'm sure he never meant to do them. Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others. He wished only to defend his motherland."</p>

<p>"Even if Arafat did terrible things, I don't blame him, I'm sure he never meant to do them. Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others. He wished only to defend his motherland."</p>

<p>"Even if BOB did terrible things, I don't blame him, I'm sure he never meant to do them. Human nature guides us to do terrible things to others. He wished only to defend his motherland."**</p>

<p>How can you not -mean- to do terrible things?</p>

<p>"but what about Arafat? Was he a saint? Was he not responsible also for vile, reprehensible acts?"
On your Was he -not- trying to defend his land? Which -coincidnetially- enough was the land that he/his father/mother/grandfather/greatgrandmother/ggf/... had been born in?</p>

<p>Where did Sharon come from? "Sharon was born Ariel Scheinermann February 27, 1928 to a Jewish father of German-Polish origin and a Jewish mother, of Russian origin, in Kfar Malal, pre-state Israel."</p>

<p>So from my understanding he was an immigrant to Palestine who did not intend to defend his "motherland", or his new motherland... but wipe out the native population that had resided there for the past THOUSAND YEARS +.</p>

<p>"That is ancient history, not modern geopolitics."
Then please tell me WHY do everytime we discuss Israel ANCIENT politics come into play? I've seen Israelis who say: well, we were there before, so it's ours. Yes that region was called ISRAEL once upon a time (2000 years ago) but the name changed about 1500 years ago to Palestine and the population comprised of Christians/Muslims/and Jews. Just like how the middle east was part of the persian empire 2000 years ago, which has been reduced to Iran, or the Hellenic empire owned half of asia.</p>

<p>"If you're saying that all land is up to grabs since no race inherently "owns" land in the world then you're basically advocating imperialism."</p>

<p>When did I say that? That's what ISRAEL seems to think though...</p>

<p>"By saying that Israel and Palestinian should compete for land in the Sinai area, you are basically spelling the end of the Palestinians. If Israel really wanted to, it could steamroll right through the West Bank/Gaza Strip and completely occupy it in addition to annexing the territories to Israel in a matter of days."</p>

<p>That'd be a stupid move... Israel already has considerable control over the region, but at the same time is pretending to be "just" by keeping a tiny peice of land reserved for 4 million people, that is barely a portion of the land Israel has annexed. Besides...wasn't it planning to? </p>

<p>And doesn't it continue to "Bulldozing of houses and destruction of infrastructure within Palestinian residential areas in the name of Israeli security add to the perceived poor conditions and lack of opportunities for the Palestinians.".</p>

<p>"The fact that Israel has not gone on and proceeded with such an occupation shows how resilient and patient the Sharon, Rabat, etc. administrations have been with Arafat and the Palestinian terrorists the Palestinian leader has supported for decades."</p>

<p>No, it justshows that they aren't STUPID politicians, they are kniving liars and that's how they've been able to keep up their state commiting all the crimes against humanity that do for so long. They know how to play the world.</p>

<p>The matter of fact is 3,700,000 live in live in the SMALL West Bank and Gaza Strip in ABSOLOUTELY horrible conditions, in refugee camps with poverty just because they refuse to sell-themselves-out, and want to hold on to their PALESTANIAN heritage and their children's future out to imperialism. Millions more live in exile from their homeland (roughly 9,395,000 over the world who have had to leave within the past century).</p>

<p>**"the Palestinian population is 97% Muslim and 3% Christian; there are also about 300 Samaritans and a few thousand Jews from the Neturei Karta group who consider themselves Palestinian."</p>

<p>"6.9 million people, 76.2% were Jews, 19.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".** who live relatively well off.</p>

<p>Please don't try to tell me this isn't systematic ethnic discrimination.</p>

<p>The total area of the sovereign territory of Israel (excluding all territories captured by Israel in 1967) is 20,770 (20,330 land) square km
The total area under Israeli law: including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is 22,145 (21,671 land) square km;
The total area under Israeli control including the military-controlled and Palestinian-governed territory of the West Bank is 28,023 (27,549 land) square km. </p>

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<p>Israel area=20,770 sq.km.</p>

<p>West Bank area= 5,860 sq.km.
Gaza Strip area= 360 sq.km.</p>

<p>population of Israel is 6,592,000
population of Palestine is 3,700,000</p>

<p>I- 6592000/20770= 317~320 people/sq.km.</p>

<p>P- 3700000/6220= 594~600 people/sq.km.</p>

<p>Israel is pretty densly populated... HOWEVER the palestanian areas are like sardine cans. Not to mention how the Palestanian infrastructure doesn't exist, people live in poverty, and houses are being bulldozered over, health-care system is poor, education is minimal, and jobs are unavailable. While -most- Israelis enjoy their days under the sun.</p>

<p>Please don't try to tell me this isn't systematic ethnic discrimination. Similar in many ways to the apartheid system of SA.</p>

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<p>"Everything Israeli incursion into Palestinian territories has been as a result of and retaliation to terrorist operations by groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO, etc., who think that it is justified to kill innocent Israelis."</p>

<p>Let me restate this: 'Everything Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO incursion into "Israeli territories" has been as a result of and retaliation to terrorist operations by groups like Israeli military, etc., who think that it is justified to kill innocent Palestanians.' Works just as well doesn't it?</p>

<p>"Therefore, every act of violence Israel has committed is justified in the name of preserving the Israeli state and giving a sense of security to the Jewish people."</p>

<p>Haha... What is wrong with you? Are you condoning murder? please are you joking me or this BS supposed to coherent? Let me restate this once again: 'Therefore, every act of violence Palestine has committed is justified in the name of preserving the Palestanian state and giving a sense of security to the Palestanian people.'</p>

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<p>[quote=Para</p>

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<p>This is irrational baggage that results from the religious and historical significance of the Middle East. "We were there first!" is not a very effective argument and does not help the situation. The fact is: Israel exists. Any solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has to begin there. The land cannot all be given back; that would be as great (or greater) an injustice than the one originally committed.</p>

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<p>Sharon is an immigrant, just like most other Israelis. </p>

<p>In order to avoid redundancy, lemme quote</p>

<p>
[quote]
"Everything Israeli incursion into Palestinian territories has been as a result of and retaliation to terrorist operations by groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO, etc., who think that it is justified to kill innocent Israelis."</p>

<p>Let me restate this: 'Everything Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO incursion into "Israeli territories" has been as a result of and retaliation to terrorist operations by groups like Israeli military, etc., who think that it is justified to kill innocent Palestanians.' Works just as well doesn't it?</p>

<p>"Therefore, every act of violence Israel has committed is justified in the name of preserving the Israeli state and giving a sense of security to the Jewish people."</p>

<p>Haha... What is wrong with you? Are you condoning murder? please are you joking me or this BS supposed to coherent? Let me restate this once again: 'Therefore, every act of violence Palestine has committed is justified in the name of preserving the Palestanian state and giving a sense of security to the Palestanian people.'

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<p>And yes, Israel did commit systematic ethnic discrimination.</p>

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Non-violent resistance would draw more international support and place Israel in a more difficult situation. If you steal my car and I kill you for it, I don't think the neighbors will approve of my action.

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<p>No. What you offer is TOTALLY IRRATIONAL. Had the Palestanians been silent they would not have had the small peice of land they do now. What do you propose, the Palestanian pack their bags and walk out of their house "non-violently" and say "Go ahead, Israel, you can tear our houses down"?</p>

<p>The situation is more like "If you steal my house, kill me, kill all of my family and children, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO to other neighbours (remember how Israel has tried to invade its other neighbours) and then I kill one of your kids NOT AS REVENGE but as a means TO SCARE YOU AWAY so that YOU'LL STOP INVADING MY RIGHTS, I don't think the neighbors will approve of my action (?)."</p>

<p>I can see from your reply that you are not like some other people here, surely you can see that Israel (which has one of the worlds most powerful military forces and backing from THE WORLD'S SUPERPOWER) will not back down regardless of whether every single country hates them.</p>

<p>I am by no means condoning violence. By no means. </p>

<p>We have this poverb in Persian/Islam Kill one human being and you kill humanity. </p>

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"For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth." ( Quran, 5:32, <a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html&lt;/a> )

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<p>But in reality, FOR PALESTANIANS -ALL the pathways seem to be blocked now-... Remember a while back when this American protestor stood in front of a bulldozer and got killed? How much more non-violent can you get than that? Everytime the Palestanians back-off, the Israelis go in more. </p>

<p>Certainly your solution would work in a Utopia where every one follows rules, but not here, when we are dealing with an extremely small population, whose so-called supporters are rich Arabic nations that make back-handed deals with the Americans, and who care more about their own pockets than the lives of millions of Palestanians.</p>

<p>What are they to do? What exactly does this model "Non-violent resistance" entail when applied to Palestine?</p>

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]The land cannot all be given back; that would be as great (or greater) an injustice than the one originally committed.

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<p>The land given back to who? </p>

<p>Is it not so feasible to let Palestanian people come back to Palestine, to their homes? While the current "residents" continue to live there. Is it not so feasible to establish equality/security for all peoples regardless of their religious/ethnic background? Is it not so feasible to stop being a criminal, racist military state? It's not about "the land", it's about the government. As long as the --Israeli government with its current corrupt policies exists--, there will be no peace in --Palestine-- and ALL of its people. I can fully assure you of that.</p>

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Non-violent resistance would draw more international support and place Israel in a more difficult situation.

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<p>It would also end up in the Palistinians being totally annihalated. It's not like your example. It's more like, you steal my car, I call the police, while I'm waiting for the police to come, you burn down my house. I call the fire department, in the mean time, you murder me.
Has anyone seen pictures of what the Israelis do? I don't know if any of you have seen it, but there's this picture that really does speak a thousand words. It's the one of that boy and his father, who went to buy a new car. I'll try to find it online. I don't think you could call a lot of what the Israelis do self defense. The palestinians barely have any weapons. The Israelis have tanks and money to buy more weapons.</p>

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<p>Well, according to the news, Sharon has a good chance of surviving now, but very likely as a vegetable. He'll be unfit to do his duties, his time as prime minister has come to an end.</p>

<p>Just curious, to those who view Palestinians as the victims and the Israelis as cruel bullies, what do you think the Israelis should do? Pack up and move out and get the Palestinains have the land or what??</p>

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<p>By Mike Odetalla</p>

<p>What does Sharon's history tell us? </p>

<p>Sharon's first documented sortie in the role George W Bush describes as as "man of peace" was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of "Unit 101" records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. </p>

<p>Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons". </p>

<p>In October of 1953 came the attack by Sharon's Unit 101 on the Jordanian village of Qibya, whose "stain" Israel's foreign minister at the time, Moshe Sharett (aka Shertok), confided to his diary "would stick to us and not be washed away for many years". He was wrong. Though even strongly pro-Israel commentators in the West compared it to Lidice, Qibya and Sharon's role are scarcely evoked in the West today, least of all by journalists such as Deborah Sontag of the New York Times who wrote a whitewash of Sharon, describing him as "feisty", or the Washington Post's man in Jerusalem who fondly invoked him after his fateful excursion to the Holy Places in Jerusalem as "the portly old warrior". </p>

<p>Israeli historian Avi Shlaim describes the massacre thus: "Sharon's order was to penetrate Qibya, blow up houses and inflict heavy casualties on its inhabitants. His success in carrying out the order surpassed all expectations. The full and macabre story of what happened at Qibya was revealed only during the morning after the attack. </p>

<p>The village had been reduced to rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians, two thirds of them women and children, had been killed. Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses." </p>

<p>The UN observer on the scene reached a different conclusion: "One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them." The slaughter in Qibya was described contemporaneously in a letter to the president of the United Nations Security Council dated 16 October1953 (S/3113) from the Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary of Jordan to the United States. On 14 October 1953 at 9:30 at night, he wrote, Israeli troops launched a battalion-scale attack on the village of Qibya in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (at the time the West Bank was annexed to Jordan). </p>

<p>According to the diplomat's account, Israeli forces had entered the village and systematically murdered all occupants of houses, using automatic weapons, grenades and incendiaries. On 14 October, the bodies of 42 Arab civilians had been recovered; several more bodies were still under the wreckage. Forty houses, the village school and a reservoir had been destroyed. Quantities of unused explosives, bearing Israel army markings in Hebrew, had been found in the village. At about 3 a.m., to cover their withdrawal, Israeli support troops had begun shelling the neighboring villages of Budrus and Shuqba from positions in Israel. </p>

<p>And what of Sharon's conduct when he was head of the Southern Command of Israel's Defense Forces in the early 1970s? The Gaza "clearances" were vividly described by Phil Reeves in a piece in The London Independent on January 21, 2001. </p>

<p>Until late 1970, Wreckage, or Had'd, Street wasn't a street, just one of scores of narrow, nameless alleys weaving through Gaza City's Beach Camp, a shantytown cluttered with low, two-roomed houses, built with UN aid for refugees from the 1948 war who then, as now, were waiting for the international community to settle their future. The street acquired its name after an unusually prolonged visit from Mr Sharon's soldiers. Their orders were to bulldoze hundreds of homes to carve a wide, straight street. This would allow Israeli troops and their heavy armored vehicles to move easily through the camp, to exert control and hunt down men from the Palestinian Liberation Army. </p>

<p>"'They came at night and began marking the houses they wanted to demolish with red paint,' said Ibrahim Ghanim, 70, a retired labourer. 'In the morning they came back, and ordered everyone to leave. I remember all the soldiers shouting at people, Yalla, yalla, yalla, yalla! They threw everyone's belongings into the street. Then Sharon brought in bulldozers and started flattening the street. He did the whole lot, almost in one day. And the soldiers would beat people. Can you imagine soldiers with guns, beating little kids? By the time the Israeli army's work was done, hundreds of homes were destroyed, not only on Wreckage Street but throughout the camp, as Sharon ploughed out a grid of wide security roads. </p>

<p>Many of the refugees took shelter in schools, or squeezed into the already badly over-crowded homes of relatives. Other families, usually those with a Palestinian political activist, were loaded into trucks and taken to exile in a town in the heart of the Sinai Desert, then controlled by Israel." </p>

<p>As Reeves reported, the devastation of Beach Camp was far from the exception. "In August 1971 alone, troops under Mr Sharon's command destroyed some 2,000 homes in the Gaza Strip, uprooting 16,000 people for the second time in their lives. Hundreds of young Palestinian men were arrested and deported to Jordan and Lebanon. Six hundred relatives of suspected guerrillas were exiled to Sinai. In the second half of 1971, 104 guerrillas were assassinated. 'The policy at that time was not to arrest suspects, but to assassinate them', said Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights in Gaza City". </p>

<p>The slaughter in the two contiguous camps at Sabra and Shatilla took place from 6:00 at night on September 16, 1982 until 8:00 in the morning on September 18, 1982, in an area under the control of the Israel Defense Forces. The perpetrators were members of the Phalange militia, the Lebanese force that was armed by and closely allied with Israel since the onset of Lebanon's civil war in 1975. The victims during the 62-hour rampage included infants, children, women (including pregnant women), and the elderly, some of whom were mutilated or disemboweled before or after they were killed.</p>

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<p>Jews: What does "Eine" mean?</p>

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<p>To adress a few things:</p>

<p>First off, KillerAngel, YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS!! What are you afraid of? Secondly, you posted a picture of Sharon, let me post one of my own... <a href="http://carol33145.tripod.com/livinginjerusalem/GazaChildrenGuns.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://carol33145.tripod.com/livinginjerusalem/GazaChildrenGuns.jpg&lt;/a>
tell me, is that a picture of the people who want to live peacefully with Israel?
Here's a picture fo way the IDF responds to militant attacks...
<a href="http://www.hatzolah.org.il/gallery/4/imagepages/image17.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hatzolah.org.il/gallery/4/imagepages/image17.html&lt;/a> That's a CIVILIAN bus, not a military transport! </p>

<p>You also said "The Palestinians attack because they want their land back. Do you expect them to do nothing and be nationless?" Well, maybe the other Arab nations can take them. Oh wait that'll never happen, because those countries NEED a pawn against israel. Just because they put their need to make Israel look bad in the world of public opinion is NOT out fault. Does the fact that they're nationless excuse their behavior? I think not. Before 1948, you did not see the Jews blowing up busses, shooting randon cars and people, kidnapping and murdering innocent people, or just plainly killing as many people as possible. Many other peoples have been nationless and did not stoop down to the levels of the palestinian militants. Just about every country in Europe and the Mid-East has killed and exiled their Jewish populations at one time or another. We deserve a homeland, we literally have no other place. </p>

<p>You also said, "Did you ever see a post of mine praising Arafat?" Well, I never saw a post of yours condemning him...</p>

<p>Sydney_Bristow87, you wrote "I don't think you could call a lot of what the Israelis do self defense. The palestinians barely have any weapons. The Israelis have tanks and money to buy more weapons." The IDF acts in self-defense, they respond to attacks against innocent civillians. I'm not sure how much more self-defense you can get. If you are referring to innocent palestinians being killed in IDF attacks, it is because the terrorist organizations are sheilded by civillians. A recent attack, for example, against a terrorist office, was in the same small building as a children's charity. Check out this article... <a href="http://www.adl.org/Israel/manipulation.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.adl.org/Israel/manipulation.asp&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>Finally, KillerAngel, please answer my questions, I have reposted them:
1) If you have a problem with Israel defending itself against terror attacks, were you against America's war in Afghanistan following 9/11?
2) You say your problem with Sharon is he is strongly zionistic, i.e. he is nationalistic. Do you have a problem with Mahmoud Abbas? President George Bush? Prime Minister Blair? President Vladimir Putin? Or is your problem with Sharon the fact that his is Israeli, and your merely attempting to rationalize that by saying he is a "zionist fanatic"?</p>

<p>If you do not repond in the next few posts, I and everyone else will be forced to assume your answers...</p>