Article about intense high schools, less being more.

<p>Newmassdad, </p>

<p>I believe you have a child at what is considered to be a “prestige” school but also a good school (Chicago-?)—though you seem to equate mundane with good (“Mundane? Try Brown, or Cornell. Good places both”).
I don’t know what thought process you or your child went through to make the decision to attend the most prestigious school in the mid-west, but I don’t think most students, along with their parents, chose Brown or any other good--but perhaps mundane--school based on a combination of a mundane education, “, connections and a host of other things not related to meritocracy.”</p>

<p>If my daughter did, she must not have understood her own motivations as well as we would have liked. She gave us a number of reasons for her choice other than the ones you mentioned which we, perhaps naively, believed. She actually seems to think that the school she chose was the best school for her based on a number of things, none of which, as I recall, involving its mediocrity, entitlement to brag, or abundance of connections. </p>

<p>For the record, I went to Michigan and my wife went to Hopkins, so I suppose we did not suffer from most of the things that many (certainly, you) would stereotypically associate with students like our daughter.</p>

<p>At Michigan, many thought that Chicago was a superior school to Michigan, moreover, it was a private and pricey school, however, I don’t recall anyone thinking the people who attended or desired to attend Chicago were seeking “prestige, bragging rights,” but rather, they liked that school better and had the money to pay for it.</p>

<p>"I do find it amazing how sensitive so many folks are about any suggestion of "ivy mania". Yet many of these same folks (none in this discussion, of course...), while giving a long list of standard reasons for seeking an ivy admission, would never consider a Rochester, a Hopkins, a Northwestern (or any of a long list of fine schools) as a top choice, only as a safety. But heck, you don't get much in the way of bragging rights at Hopkins."</p>

<p>Do you know how many times those schools have been mentioned on here with VERY high regard and never, ever as safeties? What CC board have you been on? Have you really read threads where those school were suggested as safeties? I've NEVER seen one. As a matter of fact, I've read just the opposite - Rochester has often been suggested as a hidden gem and fine institution. I think Northstarmom is one of it's biggest advocates, if I recall correctly. As a mtter of fact, I hadn't heard much about Rochester before coming to CC. But, after reading the glowing recommendations about it on CC, I researched it quite a bit as an option for my S. And I KNOW I wasn't researching safeties at the time, as he selected his safeties last Spring. </p>

<p>I'm with garland on this:
"Well, I find it amazing why one group of schools provokes so many people who aren't interested in any of them to opine on them at such great length."</p>

<p>Why is it that some people with no interest in the Ivies can quote so many little details about them when comparing them to their school of choice? Can't Rochester be a wonderful school in it's own right, regardless of how every detail of it's foundation stacks up against every detail of each Ivy?</p>

<p>And what about the kids who turn down Harvard for Brown...or Princeton for Penn? What sort of bragging rights are they seeking? Or, are they just being mundane in their bragging-rights quest? (much to the chagrin of their Ivy Mania obsessed parents, none of whom are on this thread, of course)</p>

<p>This is royal!</p>

<p>Woodwork, prestige is all relative, I suspect.</p>

<p>In this here neck of the woods, I would describe Chicago as the "anti-Ivy", because so many people outside the academic world don't know of it. Many here think it is a state U, for instance. (but heck, these same folks don't know the difference between MSU and U. Mich, but that's another story).</p>

<p>I beg to differ with your other statement. I know all too many kids who only applied to ivies, and a safety school or two, in hopes of getting into one of them.</p>

<p>Few folks have the courage to admit that prestige drives their choices. Folks will wax eloquently about the fine engineering of a beamer or Mercedes (at least until they get the repair bills), the fine sewing of Lacoste shirts etc. Maybe they really believe it. But with elite colleges, as with other luxury goods, there is a whole lot of rationalization going on.</p>

<p>Your daughter? Don't know her. Can't comment. </p>

<p>Woodwork, last question: what decals do you have on your cars? (excuse me, vehicles...)</p>

<p>momsdream,</p>

<p>thanks for double posting, now I feel less guilty about my long winded double-posts--although, your posts were still more concise and to the point than mine.</p>

<p>WAYNE MAZDA---though it isn't a decal, it's a license plate thing.</p>

<p>How about you?</p>

<p>WHen I attended Mich, I had a "OH how I hate Ohio State " bummper sticker.</p>

<p>"Your daughter? Don't know her. Can't comment."</p>

<p>even if you did, I would recommend holding your tongue, in either case. Really.</p>

<p>Woodwork, you've triple posted! That trumps my long double post anyday. ;)</p>

<p>New Trier has 9 periods a day. I believe that they are 40 minutes each.</p>

<p>Kids are required by state law to take Kinetic Wellness all four years.
There is also a state mandated consumer education and driver's education. (You can test out of consumer and take driver's ed at a private facility.)</p>

<p>Typical day has five majors, math, english, social studies, foreign language, science (lab sciences are two periods--3 days a week you have a free period.)
So five majors takes up 6 periods, add KW, lunch and an elective and you get nine periods.</p>

<p>I know a lot of kids who do early birds or summer school so that they can do art/music/dance/theater classes. Some advanced dance classes are two periods. If you are a musical theater kid, you need to take a chorus class and an acting class.</p>

<p>Yes NT is competitive, but there are a lot of "no-cut" opportunities.
I don't believe that anyone is cut from chorus or orchestra. You have placement auditions and are placed accordingly. Football is a no-cut sport. As is cross country (over 200 girls on the team.) There are other sports/clubs that are no cut.</p>

<p>There are good things about NT and some not so good things...as with any high school.</p>

<p>momsdream,</p>

<p>good thing you saved me from a quadruple--and myself, lol</p>

<p>I think that most of the sentiments expressed in this thread have been eloquently debated in the October 2004 and November 2003 issues of the Atlantic Monthly. Despite the absence of logic in many choices made in the college application process, we all seem to look for justifications. To build on Massdad example of the Mercedes, that is why many owners of expensive cars read the glorifying reviews after they bought the "vehicles" on an emotional whim. After all, they need some ammunition to protect themselves from the hordes of cost-conscious buyers who do not hesitate to criticize the ill-advised purchase. It does not seem sufficient to be happy with our choice, we feel compelled to assure everyone it was the BEST decision. </p>

<p>The bad news is that, because of the amazing individuality of american people, there are no black and white BEST decisions ... they all come in various shades of grey. </p>

<p>FWIW, I think that a different article published in the AM captured the spirit of what is discussed in this thread, especially the references to Chicago. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Do the most highly selective colleges really offer a better education than less selective ones? This would be a much easier question to answer if the University of Chicago weren't such an unfashionable place among so many undergraduates. There it sits, with its dreamy Gothic architecture of the precise type that kids nowadays go in for, its bumper crop of Nobel laureates (the most in the nation), its hugely impressive student-faculty ratio, its demonstrably extraordinary programs and departments. But the kids don't really like it. Why? It's too intellectual. What, then, do they mean by the term "good education"? Good but not too good, I guess. It's the kind of education you can get at certain places but not others?at Georgetown but not at the University of Washington; at Duke but not at Chapel Hill. It's the kind of education you can get definitely at Stanford, less so at Berkeley, much less so at Michigan, hardly at all at Wisconsin, and not at all at the University of Illinois. That kind of thinking has always bewildered me. Source: <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/flanagan%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/flanagan&lt;/a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Evanston is a nice school. I've been there a couple times for various competitions and the place is HUGE. It's so easy to get lost in that school. The again, its claim to fame is being the school in Mean Girls. Anyways, I'm from Libertyville, so 'bout a half hour north of your alma mater.</p>

<p>Evanston is definitely NOT the school in Mean Girls. I'm pretty sure it was filmed in Toronto.</p>

<p>"Kids are required by state law to take Kinetic Wellness all four years."</p>

<p>I apologize for singling out the above line, but I find it hilarious. "Kinetic Wellness" sounds like a program administered by the NASA. Has P.E. really become too mundane of a term? </p>

<p>I do not know where the term originated from, but whoever coined it must represent an institution that is full of itself! Sorry, I could not come for a better wording for "full of itself" that would sound intelligent and nebulous at the same time. Where is George Carlin with his list of gems such as assistant supervisor, new tradition, original copy, plastic glass, or uninvited guest.
? :)</p>

<p>Newmassdad: I'd check the bumper stickers on my "Beamer" if I could remove the spell that turned it into an 11 year old Dodge Caravan--anyhoo, the fender's falling off, don't dare add any extra weight.</p>

<p>And what are "Lacoste" shirts? Do they sell them at Target?</p>

<p>Gee, I did not mean to start a argument and attack against the Ivies here or top LAcs or whatever. What I have seen myself on Wall Street is that people who can bring in the most money for the company are rewarded - and why wouldn't they? That has nothing to do with "pedigree" and "school name" but more to do with who you are, how aggressive, how hungry, how ambitious, how in the know etc. </p>

<p>Sorry about that!! </p>

<p>(and perhaps my argument about meritrocracy was muddled)..don't have time for this.</p>

<p>achat, no apologies - good discussion.</p>

<p>My decals? None. Not even for the dealer - I insisted on no add ons when we bough our last new car 5 years ago. </p>

<p>I do confess, though, that my D put a decal for her HS on her bedroom window.</p>

<p>Lacoste at Target? Depends on the Federated merger, I suspect. Probably on the way.</p>

<p>Garland,</p>

<p>Apparently, when all is said and done a UofM degree gets us both old unadorned vans. Does Lacoste make overalls? The ones I'm wearing are no longer presentable in good company --if only I had a few Ivy league or UChicago decals to cover up the holes in my knees and various places, then everyone up at the lumber yard would think I was someone important and not to be taken lightly; they'd think I'd been trained to swing a hammer by Nobel Laureates.</p>

<p>Woodworker indeed!</p>

<p>I don't know anybody that wears overalls any more- my H wears 501s and always has- I think Carhartts wear longer though
oh sarcasm- :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Carhartts are good? Great. Sierra Trading Post always has great deals on that brand.</p>

<p>emeraldkity4,</p>

<p>Carhartts are the Mercedes, BMW of overalls--always have been. They signify "prestige" in the woodworking world; although, having said that, they are not for the purposes of this discussion, mediocre in an ivy league sense. ;)</p>