Asian Bias?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
41

<p>"Asians make up 2% of the population yet take up around 20% of the nation's best colleges. "
it's closer to 5% as of 2007 actually. but ignoring that... the acceptance rate is lower than everyone else's no matter how you look at it.</p>

<p>"Oh I'm sorry we don't have an Asian Britney Spears or an Asian Rihanna."
on that note, why not? you call them "idiots from pop culture" but they're rich, famous, many people want to be like them, etc.</p>

<p>"how many Asians hold Nobel laureates"
that's international. we're talking about America here.</p>

<p>"how many Asians work at the leading scientific institutions in the world"
they do so based purely on ability.</p>

<p>"good luck finding an Asian who really cares enough to enter politics"
I know plenty in my graduating class. I'm sure there are many other there. but finding one even at the state level is pretty difficult.</p>

<p>"do you have any idea how many Asians work at Google?"
keyword: work, not found. but the point is moot anyways, since that's based purely on ability anyhow.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't act all high and mighty.
First the asian population is at least 3.6% based on the last census. CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: Asian Population</p>

<p>I don't know where you get that 20% of colleges thing.

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<p>2% defines the so-called "oriental" ethnicities of Asia, not all Asian elasticities. </p>

<p>The whole 2%/20% comes from a news article I read a while back. </p>

<p>
[quote]
And you should name some governors or congressmen that are asian. Apparently you can't...</p>

<p>You are one of the most arrogant people I have ever seen. "asians don't care enough about politics?" What a crap shoot. Some how politics are not important as academics?

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<p>Shall I go and list every Asian in politics? While I'm at it, would you like me to list every Asian in "Politics? Music? Art? Industry? Science?" They are there. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"From what I remember, those people are really looked down on..." So apparently successful actors and musicians are looked down upon? Just because you do doesn't mean everyone else does.</p>

<p>Another P.S. why would people look down upon Rhianna? She is the one who made something out of herself. She pursued her dream of singing and made it from Barbados.</p>

<p>and Madonna? One of the most successful female singers in history with eleven hit albums?

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<p>Again, I'm sorry your whole conception of prominence revolves around MTV and the such. Ever heard of academic prominence? </p>

<p>
[quote]
P.S. you contradicted your entire point by saying that you agree asians aren't prominent. All I said was asian wasn't prominent and I listed a couple of examples. Do you expect me to name all the possiblities?

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<p>No I didn't contradict myself: "Prominent Asians are everywhere in science, music, and business (or as you say, industry), you just don't know people past what you see on MTV to be able to realize how many Asians create and lead some of the largest corporations in the world, how many Asians hold Nobel laureates, how many Asians teach at the best schools in the world, how many Asians work at the leading scientific institutions in the world, etc. etc."</p>

<p>I mentioned how you only list pop culture stars and some presidents/vice presidents (practically the same thing now thanks to media). </p>

<p>You want me to list people, yet you say "Do you expect me to name all the possiblities?" Talk about irony. Oh wait, no that's more like a contradiction on your part.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Founding fathers? who were all about politics and founded the first truly democratic nation on earth (Athens doesn't count, only wealthy white men could vote) So apparently that kind of politics is not worthy of an asian?

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<p>How exactly do the founding fathers play into your argument? You just mention them and then what? You're implying Asians would rather take part in politics that aren't "truly democratic." You realize, during the infancy of our country, people could only vote for their house reps and nothing else? Today we can only vote for our house reps and senators. Athens isn't too far away, seeing as how large corporations pour millions of dollars into politics, but that's not the point.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Presidents of the United States? Hello? Commander-in-Chief and Chief Executive of the most powerful and wealthiest nation on Earth? If that is not success than NO ONE knows what success is.

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<p>So public prominence is now success? You're really changing the subject now. Is a first chair musician for a leading orchestra not success? Is founding a business not success? Is discovering some new scientific landmark not success? </p>

<p>I'm not sure when I said being the president wasn't successful... You seem to be quite taken aback and are now uttering random sentences to try to make up for your seriously laughable question/statement. </p>

<p>
[quote]
And now do you want to count how many white people with mediocre talents enter those fields?
My whole point is that Asians need to better than their white counterparts in order to gain the same positions in society as is evident in what you just said.</p>

<p>btw you forgot Jackie Chan. (who is better than he is at martial arts?)
And soem of the asians you listed are not even full asian.

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<p>So this is your response after people have listed prominent Asians... First you say Caucasians who enter the same fields are mediocre compared to Asians!? You're starting to sound a little racist yourself. Then you go on adding Jackie Chan to the list. What exactly are you doing? Going against your whole thread or just making fun at the whole "who is better than he is at martial arts?"</p>

<p>Last, and probably funniest, you say some of those Asians aren't even fully Asian. So, I guess being a mix doesn't count and absolutely cannot be counted in this thread. By the way, Obama isn't fully Black ("yet we have a black president and MANY african american congressmen.") and by going with your logic, doesn't count.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your Values are warped beyond measure. and it is you who needs to do a little research.

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<p>My values? MY research? I believe you're a little mixed up with what I just said. Typical retort at best.</p>

<hr>

<p>
[quote]
it's closer to 5% as of 2007 actually. but ignoring that... the acceptance rate is lower than everyone else's no matter how you look at it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You are right saying acceptance rate is lower than other races, but irrelevant to this thread.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"Oh I'm sorry we don't have an Asian Britney Spears or an Asian Rihanna."
on that note, why not? you call them "idiots from pop culture" but they're rich, famous, many people want to be like them, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, you're right. Prominence in that aspect is correct, but that is not the only way to become prominent. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"how many Asians hold Nobel laureates"
that's international. we're talking about America here.

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<p>Maybe, but I think any person holding a Nobel is still prominent wherever they may live. Colleges frequently parade the number of Nobel laureates who teach at their school. But, then again, there are plenty of other American awards that could be listed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"how many Asians work at the leading scientific institutions in the world"
they do so based purely on ability.

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<p>I agree and it makes sense. Can't ability translate into prominence?</p>

<p>
[quote]
"good luck finding an Asian who really cares enough to enter politics"
I know plenty in my graduating class. I'm sure there are many other there. but finding one even at the state level is pretty difficult.

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<p>I too care about politics (I'm half Asian) and would love to study law and enter politics. And yes, there are many at the state level, and even more at the local level, but OP only listed the biggest names out there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"do you have any idea how many Asians work at Google?"
keyword: work, not found. but the point is moot anyways, since that's based purely on ability anyhow.

[/quote]
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<p>Second mention of ability. I agree with you, but now I'm a little confused on to why you mentioned that twice. Since positions like that are based on merit, or ability, does that make them less prominent?</p>

43

<p>Hmm, i took a course on Asian American history this summer, and learned about something called the "model minority myth." I'm not sure if you guys have heard of it - this summer was the first time I had - but it seems relevant to this discussion. </p>

<p>Basically, it confronts the overall impression that Asian Americans are excelling in America as a "model minority" group, a view which is both untrue and potentially dangerous. Not only are needy Asian Americans often overlooked, but the myth also causes racial tensions b/w minorities (i.e. The Asians are doing splendidly; why can't the Latinos/African Americans/other ethnic group?) - an argument which is completely unfounded, but bolstered by the myth.</p>

<p>Here are some links:
Asian</a> American Empowerment<a href="A%20messy%20site,%20but%20hey,%20they%20bought%20a%20great%20domain%20name.">/url</a>
[url=<a href="http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml%5DThe">http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml]The</a> Model Minority Image : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/education/10asians.html?_r=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/education/10asians.html?_r=1&lt;/a>
The</a> New Whiz Kids - TIME<a href="This%20became%20semi-controversial%20b/c%20it%20supported%20the%20model%20minority%20myth.%20But%20it%20discusses%20the%20myth%20on%20the%20first%20page...%20and%20Masi%20Oka's%20on%20the%20cover%20as%20a%20boy!">/url</a>
And, of course, the greatest source of wisdom on the planet - [url=<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority%5DModel">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority]Model</a> minority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>I... also have a 1.5" binder full of articles, so if anyone's interested, I can dig some up for you, haha.</p>

<p>Oh, and there's a really funny article on Monta Vista. I'm sure that there must be some Monta Vista kids on this forum, even if they're just non-posting lurkers. :)
The</a> Wall Street Journal Classroom Edition</p>

44

<p>Homg. I just posted and am overwhelmed by the sheer length of the previous post, hahaha</p>

45

<p>Starpollen brings up an excellent point. Society generalizes Asians as being supersmart and ahead of other races -- which can be seen in sadface's topic: "asians are among the most educated in the nation" -- when it's not really the case.</p>

<p>That very first paragraph on Asian</a> American Empowerment really does an excellent job of summarizing your point and this thread shows just how much tension this subject can bring up.</p>

46

<p>Regarding starpollen + _____</p>

<p>Completely true. The fact of the matter is that most Asians were able to immigrate into the US due to academic prowess and therefore are some of the smartest Asians. It is unfair to compare this highly skewed population to the general population of say Latinos or African Americans as they have been in the US for much longer and are not a population bottleneck.</p>

47

<p>You mean most asians modernly. You're discounting the chinese railroad workers.</p>

<p>and _______ you need to stop getting obsessed with mtv. and yes prominence = media noticeability.</p>

<p>I was also pointing out that I at least gave some examples while you gave none. And NOWHERE in this thread did I start talking about Oriental asians. Something that you pulled out of your ass to defend you false assumption of 2%.</p>

<p>P.S. The burden of proof is on you, not me. So start naming them.</p>

<p>Maybe you would also like to address why people look down upon celebrities? Even though they are famous, rich, and command vast legions of fans.</p>

48

<p>You sound pretty angry yet you fail to defend half the things pointed out in your statements. </p>

<p>I've said it before, as have others: media prominence is not the only way to be prominent. You refuse to admit defeat.</p>

<p>Ok fine, I assumed, and I'll bet others did too, that by Asian American you meant China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Phil., etc. but you meant anyone from Asia. "Pulling something out of my ass"? Sounds a little more like rage on your part. 2% vs. 3.6%. Oh yaaa, I pulled it out of my ass. I made the whole thing up! It's complete nonsense on my part and completely destroys my argument. </p>

<p>Is that what you want to hear? </p>

<p>Like I said, do a little research. You act as if it would be impossible to name names. Plus, I said it before: Other people have already named prominent Asians. Were they not enough for you? </p>

<p>I find it humorous how you choose to ignore half the things said in this thread and continue to perpetuate your ignorance of this matter. </p>

<p>Your question: Is there an Asian Bias? </p>

<p>YES, of course there is. Asians, like other minorities are discriminated against, but that does not mean they hold no positions of prominence whatsoever.</p>

49

<p>I find it interesting how you keep avoiding one point of mine. Name the asians that you ****en know who are prominent. Don't go on tangents of about my ignorance. Debate the topic don't throw in ignorant theories around.</p>

<p>and more than half of your points make no sense at all. I wouldn't bother wasting my time on them. </p>

<p>Of course I would be angry if someone were to call me ignorant. Maybe you come from the land of "I don't care", but most people get offended.</p>

<p>You're being very obstinate. When I defined this debate, I defined prominence as media prominence. So if you have a problem with the topic then Shut up. If not, then stop talking about non-media "prominence", as you can't even name any.</p>

50

<p>starpollen </p>

<p>Don't worry about the length of that post. It was full of crap anyways.</p>

51

<p>List</a> of Asian Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>Your reply? Probably "it doesn't make sense."</p>

<p>Man I get a kick out of you. And I'm lol'ing at your attempts to anger me on the Penn forum ^_^.</p>

52

<p>Bahahaha! I love this thread. And ______, you rule. Okay. So I don't really know why this needed clarification, and I also didn't intend to get involved in this debate--though I find it quite marvelous and entertaining--I felt it necessary to address:</p>

<p>"why people look down upon celebrities? Even though they are famous, rich, and command vast legions of fans."</p>

<p>Isn't it obvious? What have these people done? They have manufactured and sold themselves - largely by becoming sexual icons - and while some may admire the fame of these people, others may equally look down at them for their superficiality. I am personally as white as they come, and I definitely do not feel that the lack of hardcore-celebrity-Madonna/Britney-type Asians indicates in any way that Asians cannot easily rise to prominence in America. Do not mistake prominence for celebrity.</p>

<p>Let's face it...the dominant, and admittedly STEREOTYPICAL, Asian stereotype is associated with intelligence, education, and a work ethic. Although you are sadfaced about the sparsity of Asians with fame, wealth, and "vast legions of fans," there is also no "Asian trash" concept, as well as no general, overarching cultural attitudes associating Asians with immorality, promiscuity, stupidity, crime, racism, ignorance, etc.</p>

<p>Turn that frown upside down! :)</p>

53

<p>I feel like this thread has been getting too heated. When a discussion degenerates into ad hominem, you know it's time to step back. :)
Can we kill this thread? Race is a prickly issue in general that needs discussion, but I feel like this isn't the time or the place. We should be supporting each other on our mutual goal of going to Stanford, especially since early decisions come out in less than a month!</p>

<p>Or not. Well, at least Max lightened the mood.</p>

54

<p>I agree with Starpollen, though I admittedly may have fueled the fire. If you're referring to my post when you say ad hominem, I did not think of it that way when I posted, and I apologize. And indeed, we should be supporting each other!</p>

55

<p>Haha, no, not at all. Yours was quite cheery!
And okay, I'm bumping this thread up w/ this post, so I'll stop now. Farewell!
<em>exits</em></p>

56

<p>Ooh! Flashy. I do the same.</p>

<p><em>CRACK!</em></p>

57

<p>I did not intend to have this outcome; that is, a back and forth toss of rather irate discussion, which I'm guessing was mostly fueled out of spite. </p>

<p>I really raised an eyebrow when I saw OP's post and thought it was very closed minded and had to post. Albeit the wording of my posts were a bit harsh and maybe taking comments too far, I still stand behind the general theory of my posts and I think OP should realize how simply stereotypical his post was. As an Asian myself, I found it a bit racist and degrading and had to defend myself. </p>

<p>I apologize for any unnecessary temper and good luck on your ventures with Stanford's admission.</p>

58

<p>i coupla things
first of all, i have to admit, i didnt read ever ypost since i last posted, so im not going to respond to everything that people said lol
but a few things i must say
primarily, to whoever said that there are no asian congressmen of governors - the governor of Louisianna is Indian, and is quickly become his party's leader, and there are a few asian in the House - i think there are 4 or 5. not a lot, but they're still there</p>

<p>wait, and when people say OP, are they referring to me? because on CC, that's not what OP stands for</p>

<p>LASTLY, someone said this:
disagree with oprah. you shouldn't be compared to a certain subset of a group because of a couple of base pairs in your dna are similar... that's for both comparing people within races and genders...
this is certainly and issue that has existed in our society for so many years. yet the fact is that people of the same minroity race can and should be grouped together, for it was their common ancestors who were forcibly bound for years to American landowners, their ancestors who were forced under harsh conditions to work on the first American railroads, their common acestors who have for the past 250 years of America's existence dealt with cruel bigotry and prejudice.</p>

59

<p>MODERATOR'S NOTE: </p>

<p>Out of respect for the topic of each forum, I'll close this thread here in the Stanford Forum, which ought to be mostly about Stanford University. </p>

<p>If you would like to discuss race and ethnicity issues as they relate to college admission, come on down to the College Admissions Forum, where there is a thread on that subject. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/568159-race-college-admissions-faq-discussion-2-a.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/568159-race-college-admissions-faq-discussion-2-a.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>(Be sure to look up the facts in the several external links in the first few posts of that thread. Many people are surprised by the facts.) </p>

<p>Discussions even more general than that probably belong in some other forum, possibly not a forum here on College Confidential depending on how far they drift from college-related topics. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of you in your college applications.</p>