<p>Try this one … discussed, sliced, and diced for 315 pages … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist.html</a></p>
<p>Xigi, no. he knew the EA result before applying to HYP, but didn’t know a particular program that he was aiming if he got in. But he knew the result of this program (which I won’t tell you even if you asked 
and he made up his mind before the HYP result came out. </p>
<p>And kid, how the hell is it a concern of yours?</p>
<p>"Does your kid’s highschool rank within the Newsweek’s top 500 highschools? "</p>
<p>…for top-15 colleges, with say 2,000 entering class size, 40% of which is given for ‘open’ admission (outside of legacy/URM/athletic/internationals), you have only 12,000 seats. For top 5 colleges, only 4,000 seats. There are over 30,000 highschools in the country"</p>
<p>So then I did not understand you correctly. I wondered if you were saying ""the top academic group of EACH highschool would apply to them. " </p>
<p>but matbe you are saying ""the top academic group of the top 500 high schools would apply to them. " and there STILL wouldn’t be enough room…? I still don’t understand your point in that post I quoted…I’ve lost track of which number it was.</p>
<p>NVM…neither has relevance for me…</p>
<p>BTW, no, not top 500…I don’t know if there is a “top 500” school within 80 miles of here. I think there is a different point of view outside of those schools and those communities, and I have only just PEEKED at them here on CC</p>
<p>I can understand why Asian students might be upset if they feel they are being “discriminated against”, but at the same time, we have to remember that the average Asian family has a higher income and educational level than any other race, even whites, and that Asians, who make up a tiny percentage of the population of the United States, are over-represented not only in the applicant pool but in the student body of most universities. In contrast, the other racial minorities (African-Americans, Hispanics and Native Americans) are under-represented. The goal of affirmative action is to level the playing field for these applicants, who tend to be lower-income and thus at a disadvantage in nearly every other way:</p>
<p>-Because of the unfair school funding patterns in this country, higher-income whites and Asians are more likely to attend better-quality public schools and have access to more AP/IB classes and better college counseling services.
-Lower-income minorities may have to work jobs to support their families, and as a result are unable to attend prestigious summer programs and are able to participate in fewer ECs.
-Higher-income white and Asian families can afford expensive SAT prep courses and/or tutors, and as a result have higher standardized test scores.
-Higher-income white and Asian families are more likely to be able to afford expensive private college coaches, and so have more polished and strategic essays and applications. In addition, these applicants’ parents tend to be better educated themselves, so they are more able to help with essays.
-Teachers and counselors at higher-income schools probably have more experience writing recommendations for top colleges, so these students will have better-written and more polished recommendation letters.
-Lower-income families and minorities are more likely to experience stressful financial, health and family situations (such as the death of a parent or sibling, abuse, the foster care system, unwanted pregnancies, drug/alcohol abuse, etc) that may affect students’ GPAs and extracurricular involvement.
-Higher-income white and Asian parents have more time, and often more inclination, to help their kids find out-of-school opportunities that look good to colleges.</p>
<p>When one takes these circumstances into account, one realizes that to judge every applicant on the basis of “merit” alone, without regard to race, ethnicity or family income, would be discrimination because it would give higher-income white and Asian students a significant advantage. Asian students are seen to “suffer” from affirmative action because the circumstances that impact other minorities rarely affect them. By having a higher family income and better-educated parents on average, Asian students actually have many advantages over other races. The goal of affirmative action is to attempt to eliminate these advantages and to ask the question, “Who most deserves to be admitted here?” In many cases, the answer is the overachieving white or Asian student who has spent the past four years in the single-minded pursuit of college acceptance. In other cases, it may be the minority who has overcome great adversity, and yet is still qualified for admission (the key word being “qualified”; you will never see a minority C-student accepted at the Ivies). Remember, Asians are still over-represented in most college student bodies, which tells us that affirmative action still has a ways to go. In a fair world, people of all races would be equally represented in higher education. That this is not the case tells us that what we are dealing with is an unfair system, that the criteria normally used to evaluate applicants (course rigor, GPA, test scores, ECs, essays and teacher recommendations) is unfair to minority and low-income applicants, and therefore that exceptions must be made to preserve equality of opportunity.</p>
<p>Just as applicants must, in all fairness, be judged in the context of their high school’s offerings, so must they be judged in the context of their greater societal circumstances. Achievements associated with selective college admission are not equally available to all, but admission itself should, as much as possible, be.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, there is no concern. Just trying to ascertain the facts to form an opinion. Where did I read about facts and opinions just a while ago. </p>
<p>“Kid”</p>
<p>toughyear,</p>
<p>Going back to your original question, which was essentially, should asian-ams skip HYPS and apply instead to MIT and Chicago where chances are better? (Please feel free to correct this paraphrasing). Based on the following, I would say, “no.”</p>
<p>Using only the collegeboard figures for 1st year admitted students, I calculated the number of Asian seats for each college:</p>
<p>Chicago 1,152
Stanford 1,110
Harvard 1,062
MIT 988
Princeton 939
Yale 849</p>
<p>So if you are going to give up on any, you should throw out Yale, Princeton and MIT first, in that order.</p>
<p>I think the OP and others having issues deciding if they should even apply need to answer the questions for themselves.
Its like playing the lottery, if you dont play, you have no chance of winning. If you decide to play the HYPS admin game, know the odds.</p>
<p>On the HYPM admission threads, you have Asians with lower scores accepted over Asians with higher scores all the time --Ironiically, when an URM, athlete, legacy etc is accepted with lower score, it seems that someone took a spot from an Asian somewhere.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>interests aren’t selfish, they’re logical (which is seperated from ethical.) It was probably in the slaveholders interests in the south to keep slavery in tact (they were becoming insanely rich from it) but that doesn’t mean it was the right thing to do. It would have been illogical for them to give that up (and hence, why they seceded and why we had the civil war) even though it was certainly the ethical thing to do.</p>
<p>It would be illogical of me to support something that came to my detriment, or the detriment of the things i care about, although it might be the right thing to do. Generally speaking, people’s interests are located in the groups which they’re a part of, but they’re sometimes also located in just the things that they care about. There may be whites who support asians in HE, and vice versa, but i bet those that do wouldn’t want it to come at the expense of themselves, their children, or the people that they care about.</p>
<p>your post made it seem like if we imposed a quota system, it would benefit white students at the expense of asian ones; whereas if we kept the current legislation, as the contrapositive, asian students would continue to benefit at the expense of whites. I don’t see any particular reason for choosing one race over the other (as i said, other than personal interests).</p>
<p>When the entitled does not win, it is because of discrimination. </p>
<p>Same old. Same old!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How utterly un-real world.
Anyway, that’s not what the Ivies / other elites believe. and, of course, they get to determine their own admissions standards. Tell me again why you want to join them sooooo badly when your core values diverge so much? Why don’t you just walk away from them in the first place? You’re allowed, you know. It’s perfectly possible for a smart kid to not apply to any Ivies, believe it or not!</p>
<p>The fact that you crave your kid getting into the “stew” of intelligent, ambitious, creative people at the Ivies tells me that obviously you think they DO produce a product you want.</p>
<p>[Text</a> of Steve Jobs’ Commencement address (2005)](<a href=“You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News”>You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News)
</p>
<p>Steve Jobs always made me feel so humbled. I started using Macintosh in 1985 and then Mac Plus, after finishing graduate school while first starting my career. When Steve Jobs left Apple, I was very surprised but then soon forgot about him until the Toy Story made a story about Pixar and Steve Jobs. An amazingly creative and multi-talented genius of our times. Rest in peace.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, there’s the rub. I’d say no. We’re going to have to agree to disagree. More importantly, you’re going to have to agree to disagree with Harvard et al.</p>
<p>
Thanks, Ghostt. I guess that your statement indicates that you are a genius. People used to call me “non-scientific”. :)</p>
<p>Toughyear,</p>
<p>I had a different experience from what you had. My son was a normal Chinese boy in high school who grew up in here in the States. He went to a prep school and became the class valedictorian upon graduation. He applied Yale early and got in. He then spent four hours on Stanford’s application and got in also. He was waitlisted and rejected by Harvard. I don’t think the reason was that he was a Chinese, but he was accepted early at Yale. The early admit yield at Yale was about 80%. He never applied to MIT though. Personally I don’t think that he was not qualified for Harvard as he has a GPA over 3.9 at Stanford when he is into his senior year right now. Graduate school will be different because it is mainly merit based.</p>
<p>ewho - I am curious how getting admitted early to Yale is a deciding factor for Harvard. How do they know one was admitted since it was not ED? </p>
<p>Amy Chua’s daughter was admitted early to Yale but is going to Harvard. But I do know another person who meets the EA to Yale condition but then she was sitting in the pressbox next to Michelle Obama for Obama’s annual address and so Harvard could not have missed that.</p>
<p>Do you want to see the entire list of Yale’s SCEA students for class 2015? I have everyone’s name, picture, and the school he/she was from?</p>
<p>If I can get it, so can Harvard.</p>
<p>It is published somewhere? Will I be able to see a list for 2016 when it comes out?</p>
<p>Bay:
</p>
<p>With Asian-American percentage of 17 % or 19%, that would give Havard’s freshman class size 6,250 (=1062/.17) or 5,600 (1062/.19). I thought it is much smaller. Anyway, I believe the more relevant number to go by is the acceptance rate, I think. It was my personal experience with my two boys also. When looking at the result, there was a strong correlation between a school’s acceptance rate and my children’s results. Very clearly.</p>
<p>toughyear,
I used the 1st year figures, but calculated it for the entire college. It won’t be exact, but should be close.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I had always assumed this as well, but I thought you argued against it in an earlier post, claiming that all the top Asians in the country apply to all those same top schools, so the rate doesn’t really matter, you were only interested in the raw number of seats.</p>
<p>One more thing I’d like to say about Steve Jobs:</p>
<p>**He did not steal ideas in order to innovate and he did not destroy competitor’s companies and their jobs in order for his company to succeed and grow. ** I thought his legacy, on top of all that he has given to this generation, was also this clean innovation and growth, something that is often missing in other technology behemoths.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Which Ivy League school was it that hacked into its competition’s database afew years ago?</p>