<p>Hey amalshine,
I'm not actually familiar with the application process for non-US programs. If I understand you correctly you are asking if your American science courses will transfer to foreign programs? I'm not sure about that actually. You should probably contact those programs directly to get accurate information.</p>
<p>Hi magicalchris,
First, what is a public IVY?</p>
<p>Secondly, I want to assure you that your story is not all that unfamiliar. One of the biggest adjustments that college students have to make is learning how to be a college student. Rather than settling on not going for an MD two quarters into your first year of college, focus on honing your study and time management skills. These are skills you will need to be successful in any graduate program whether you're working toward an MD or an MBA. You have lots of time to pull that GPA up and get into some activities. Work on making every quarter better than the last and then let's see where we are at this time in your junior year. </p>
<p>If you're asking me if the 2.8 means you can't go to med school, the answer is absolutely not. I have a friend who got a 3.0 in undergrad who worked her butt off in a post-bac program and is now at a great med school. So don't give up. If you work hard you really can get there, and I really mean that.</p>
<p>Hey justpeachy,
The answer is, it depends on the med school. Some schools won't care, others will want to know why you didn't take it during the regular school year. I think that's because most science courses are graded on a curve and there is less competition during the summer. Is this splitting hairs? Of course, but with so little separating very talented applicants often very minute things matter. Of course getting a C in class because you're so overwhelmed would be much worse, so if you think you can perform better by taking classes during the summer go for it. Wow you kids are so driven...I would never have given up a summer for school...:)</p>
<p>Hey Anastasia,
Do you think you are??? Mostly it's hard work. Where are you in your schooling? Tell me about yourself.</p>
<p>I must say, it's great for you to take the time off your busy schedule to answer our questions. Thank you.</p>
<p>I have a few inquiries, if I may:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I'm a senior in high school, and have just discovered my passion to become a doctor. However, being a senior, I've regrettably not taken any AP science courses, nor can I in the future. Will this be at all a hindrance in my path to become a physician?</p></li>
<li><p>You've stated that extracuricular activities greatly help an applicant's chance for getting into a medical school, especially those which demonstrate leadership capabilities. If you're willing to share, and I'm sorry if this is too intrusive, can you tell me what sort of activities you've done? How did you like them (fun, rewarding, time-consuming, et cetera)? And how did you come about into doing them?</p></li>
<li><p>Last question, for now. Admittedly, I haven't done my best in high school and will be attending my local community college. I plan to transfer into a University of California after getting my AA or AS. Will this affect my chances, or look bad on my resume?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Hi tchan,</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Probably not. I took only one AP science class (Physics) in high school and I did just fine in my college science classes. I did take AP Calc and I think that helped me more than any other AP class. If your non-AP high school classes were rigorous and forced you to learn the material, with hard work you can definitely do well in your college science classes.</p></li>
<li><p>Rather than list my activites, I'll give you some general examples of things...
-Be proactive: if you notice something in your community or school that just isn't right work to fix it. Many of the most impressive leadership roles that people have on their applications are the ones that they've created for themselves by starting organizations, committees, or action groups. Some people start tutoring programs for at risk kids, others start volunteer organizations to help the elderly get to their medical appointments.
-In clubs, student government and other activities, work toward becoming a member of the leadership board. And this is where people often mess up: they try to become the leader of too many orgs and then don't do very well at any of them. Be a good leader and learn how not to spread yourself too thin.
-Mentor younger students both at your school and in the community.
-Community service/service projects. Maybe even take one of your spring breaks and go to somewhere to do a service project. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>There really is no magic formula, but I think the important thing to remember is that people that are effective and successful leaders are good at making something out of nothing and networking, networking, networking. Work at meeting people in various roles and once you've made those contacts, ask how you can become involved. In terms of community outreach and creating your own leadership roles, you first need to become active in your community and school so that you can assess needs and determine how you can make a difference. </p>
<p>Many schools have offices dedicated to student activities and community service. Visit these offices early in your first semester of freshman year and get involved. </p>
<ol>
<li>Honestly, it might. On the other hand though, I think it would say a lot about your dedication to become doctor and your ability to overcome adversity. Many very talented people wind up at CCs because they don't have the money to go to a four-year or tanked on the SATs, etc. The good news is that you're in California (my home state too :)) because there is a clear road to the UC system from the community college system. You need to get exceptional grades and then try to transfer to a UC school with a great reputation (Berkeley, UCLA, or UCSD). Once there, continue to do well. You might not get into med school on your first shot, but with a post-bac program and great grades, you could get there eventually. </li>
</ol>
<p>Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Importance of having college Calc credit in addition to HS AP Calc ("5" on exam)? Calc and math in general has been D's easy classes, but she is not interested in another math class, she rather take something that is more interesting for her.</p>
<p>Hey guys,
Here's a frequently asked question post that I did for my Notre Dame thread. I'm getting some of these questions now, so I'd thought I'd post it here too. </p>
<p>1. Are there merit scholarships for medical school?</p>
<p>Yes, and some schools offer more of them than others. I know that Vanderbilt School of Medicine offers about 30% of their incoming class each year a full tuition scholarship for four years. Mayo, a really small school, offers nearly all of its class full-tuition scholarships. Most of these scholarships are awarded to the school’s top admittees, but nearly all schools also offer need-based aid as well. Sadly, for most med school attendees, your MD will be paid for via loans, I’m afraid. </p>
<p>There also other opportunities aside from scholarships to go to med school for free. There are programs that you can apply to that would require you to practice in an underserved community for 4 years after residency in exchange for loan forgiveness. In addition, some med students take advantage of the military, which not only pays tuition, but also gives a monthly stipend for room and board, in exchange for your commitment to practice in a military setting for a specified number of years. Finally, there’s the old MD/Phd option. If you pursue a PhD in addition to an MD, your medical school and PhD training will be paid for. Most medschools have MD/PhD programs, and in addition to free tuition, you also get a stipend to cover living expenses. The downside is that it takes a LONG time to finish MD/PhD programs, but if you’re genuinely interested in a career in research or academic medicine, this may be a good, and less expensive route for you. </p>
<p>2. What is the med school curriculum like? How hard is it, really?</p>
<p>Your med school curriculum will vary depending on what school you go to. Actually, there is a big push now to shift the traditional curriculum for a more integrated approach, so I can only comment on the curriculum I am currently taking: </p>
<p>Your first two years of medical school are called the pre-clinical years, because you spend most of your time in class learning how to treat patients. First year is the study of the “normal” human. You’ll study anatomy (with human cadaver dissection), histology, embryology, physiology, biochemistry, cell and molecular biology, neurobiology, biostats and epidemiology, genetics, and nutrition. In addition, at Chicago we get some introduction to clinical medicine with clinical classes on taking a medical history, vitals, and the cultural context of medicine. We’ve also taken several seminar classes on healthcare in the United States and medical ethics. Second year is the study of what happens when stuff goes wrong. Second years study pathology, microbiology, pharmacology, physical diagnosis, and clinical pathophysiology (my favorite class thus far). </p>
<p>Third and fourth years are the clinical years, where you’re actually in the hospitals, working with residents and attendings to take care of patients. At Chicago and most other med schools there are 7 required clerkships (or rotations) for third year: Neurology, Ob/Gyn, Surgery, Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Family Medicine, and Peds. During fourth year, students generally complete the final required clerkship (Emergency Medicine), and take electives and subinternships, and apply to residency programs. Fourth year internships and electives allow students to get more experience in areas that are related to their desired specialties. For example, a 4th year entering emergency medicine may spend time in cardiology to better understand the pathophysiology of heart failure and other cardiac conditions. </p>
<p>Med school is hard, but everybody gets through it. If there is any advice I could give to someone picking a med school, it would be to go to a school that has a pass-fail system for the first two years. I have found that the lack of competition that comes from the pass-fail system has really created a collaborative, non-stress learning environment for our class. </p>
<p>3. What are the most competitive specialties to get into?</p>
<p>So during your fourth year of medical school (which is a long way off for most of us), you go through this program called “the Match”—I will omit most of the details here for simplicity. Basically, you apply to a bunch of residency programs in the specialty you’d like to enter and rank the list of programs that you applied to after interviewing at all of them. The programs then rank all of their applicants and there is a mysterious computer program that compares applicant’s rank lists to program’s rank lists and matches graduating med students to residency program spots all over the country. For instance, if you applied to hospital A and ranked it your number 1 choice, and hospital A also ranked you it’s number 1 choice, you’d end up at hospital A. I know it’s confusing, but bear with me. </p>
<p>Some specialties have fewer spots available than applicants applying, and those specialties are known to be the most competitive, because there will always be a number fourth years who won’t match into a program in these specialties. These specialties include plastic surgery (which only has 80 spots nationwide), dermatology, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, and radiation oncology. Other specialties are less competitive, and have more spots open than applicants applying, or a similar number of spots to applicants applying: Internal medicine, family medicine, and peds. Many other specialties (i.e. Ob/gyn and emergency medicine) are somewhere in the middle. </p>
<p>When choosing a medschool, it’s sometimes helpful to get a list of where the school’s fourth years have previously matched, especially if you’re interested in one of the competitive specialties or would like to do a residency at a well known hospital. If you want to do orthopedics, but a given med school hasn't matched anyone in ortho for 10 years, you might want to choose a different school. If you’re into plastics, it’s best to choose a school that has a history of matching in plastics.</p>
<p>Hi PND,</p>
<p>Thank you for taking your time to answer all these questions :)</p>
<p>I read in the thread that undergraduate schools do make a difference in getting into graduate school, especially if you graduate from a prestigious one (ivys)
However if you are going to choose between a mid-range UC (UCSB) with honors or an upper ranking UC (UCLA) with no special merits, which would be better? Would medical schools appreciate honors more or would it not matter as much in this situation.</p>
<p>Also would it be easier to get into med school from a lower ranking school with higher grades than lower grades from a higher ranking school?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Hi Acceptmeplease, </p>
<p>I think the first important thing to say is that UCSB and UCLA are both good schools that get students into medical school. </p>
<p>UCLA gets far more students into medical school though and generally has a stronger reputation. I'm from CA, and I knew people in high school who got into Stanford who didn't get into UCLA, so I would say the level of the general student body is higher at UCLA...most students at UCLA would probably qualify for the honors program at UCSB. Honors programs are not that useful in differentiating applicants because they ususally tell you only that during a particular application cycle this student was in top whatever percent of applicants to that college. Acceptance is often based on SAT scores which have little predictive value of one's success in college. Honors programs are not really good for allowing you to compare qualifications to students from other institutions at the end of college when you apply to medical school. </p>
<p>Of course the other academic measurement (besides GPA) is MCAT score. Students from higher ranking schools usually do better on the MCAT which probably has less to do with the college than with the fact that these students have become very good at taking tests. </p>
<p>But medical school admissions are not clear cut and definite. All else being equal, the medical school will probably choose the candidate from the more well known school. Fair or not, that's often what happens. In terms of choosing a college (or a medical school for that matter), go with the one that you think you will get the best education at (which isn't just about academics BTW).</p>
<p>I really hope that I'm not giving anyone a false impression however. No matter what school you go to, you have to do very well to get into medical school. That's why I stress that you need to go to the place that's right for you and where you think you'll best reach your potential. You'll be happier, be more involved, and get better grades.</p>
<p>Hey PrincessND- </p>
<p>Thanks SO much for all of your great advice to the anxious premeds on this forum! I have a questions about research. If I'm planning to apply to top research-ranked medical schools, how important is it that I be published as an undergraduate? I know that first authorship is pretty rare for an undergraduate, but do research-heavy medical schools expect applicants to be at least co-authors? I'm a freshman and I'm already doing research, and I just want to know how important it is that I get published before I apply. I'll probably just apply MD, although I haven't ruled out MD/PhD yet.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, PrincessND.</p>
<p>If I plan to transfer from, say, City College of San Francisco to UC Berkeley, would I be screwed in terms of community/campus activities and research projects due to the change in location? Is it too late to start a research project/get involved in leadership roles during my junior year--my first year at a UC? </p>
<p>Thanks again. :)</p>
<p>Hi PND
Your advices are the best I've ever read! It really clears up the confusing journey to med schools. </p>
<p>& I have a question for you too :) I'm a freshman at UCR, and I was thinking about applying for the Honors Program here (I have a 3.6 GPA... gotta get it up), but you mentioned Honors Programs being not too effective for the application process. But I'm a bit worried that all my fellow med school applicants might be in honors courses (eek, the competition!). </p>
<p>But if I can get into Honors, would you recommend me to join it? What about other honors/organizations (such as NSCS or fraternities)? Will they benefit me better?</p>
<p>Thanks :)</p>
<p>Hey Miami,
College calc isn't that necessary. You mostly take it so that you can take physics because calculus-based physics with lab is required for medical school.</p>
<p>Hey rer,
It's not important to be published (they mostly want to see that you've done research), but it definitely wouldn't hurt if you were published. It would be another thing that set you apart from other applicants.</p>
<p>Hey tchan,
I think that starting ECs/activities in junior year is too late. You need to start during your freshman year, especially since you're going to be transferring. It will be another app process to get into UC's and from what I hear, for the top UCs, it's pretty competitive. Again, if I'm being completely honest, you need to aim for UCSD, UCLA, or Berkeley because these will really show your academic evolution through the years. I would also keep in mind that you might need an extra year to finish your BA once you start at your "final destination". And once you get there you need to continue to get good grades and stay involved. Will it be difficult to get involved as an upperclassman? Yes, but it is possible.</p>
<p>Hi ailime,
Yes, if you can get into the honors program AND YOU THINK YOU WILL BENEFIT from it join it. But if you're just doing it to put on a medical school application don't do it. You should do things because you want to, not because you think you should. I didn't take one honors course at Notre Dame and I did just fine. </p>
<p>Similarly to above, I can't advise you to join one group over another because medical students are diverse; there are broad categories of experiences (i.e. community service, leadership) that medschools love, but there are no right activities and wrong activities. One of my classmates started a juggling club at his school, another was an amateur ventroliquist. There really is no magic formula so find things that genuinely interest you and do those things. Sincerity goes a long way. :)</p>
<p>Thanks again for the tips, PND. Your wisdom is truly appreciated. :)</p>
<p>What exactly counts as "leadership?" Starting your own club or organization? With all of the existing organizations started by other ambitious students, how do you form your own? Is it very difficult, and again, possible during junior year? For example, I'm absolutely interested in film, in a hobbyist sort of way, but wouldn't there already be a bunch of film clubs at a school like UCB? Do I just start another one? Or with tutoring or volunteer, same question.</p>
<p>Merci.</p>
<p>Thanks, PND, very helpful. I have further question on "You mostly take it so that you can take physics because calculus-based physics with lab is required for medical school. "
I am sorry, but are you sure that physics needs to be calculus-based? D asked her pre-med advisor and was told that she does not need to take calculus-based one. She has solid math background and would be able to take calculus-based physics, but is planning to sign on for non-calculus-based one. She wants to pursue other area of her interest which includes very challenging classes and does not want to spend time on physics beyond absolute minimum requred by Med. school. But we do not want surprises at the end. Thanks again!</p>
<p>As a physician, I find this thread troubling. There are indeed all kinds of roles for people with diverse interests in medicine. However, were I in septic shock in an ICU, my blood pressure and renal function controlled by IV pressors, my acid/base status controlled by a balance of buffers and respiratory control, and my infection being treated by a combination of antibiotics, I think I would prefer to have as a physician someone who graduated summa with high test scores, vs. the one who started a juggling club, was an amateur ventriloquist, contemplated starting a film club as a contrived effort to demonstrate "leadership", or found no honors courses at their college of interest.</p>