<p>My recollection is that we were told they get about 1500 people auditioning for about 15 BFA MT spots- and that they usually have about a 50% yield so they take about 30.</p>
<p>For BA in Theater Studies (for which you have to interview), I believe he said they want about 30 but I don’t recall the number admitted or applying.</p>
<p>I believe they want a class of about 8-10 in MT- including BOTH BFA MT and BM MT together so they admit 12-15 (I think they said). They also limit the number of audition slots to 240 or 250 but it was not clear to me whether those slots are for BM MT and BFA MT together or not.</p>
<p>I would not count on these numbers being accurate. Many are VERY exaggerated. For example if Carnegie Mellon has Approx. 1300 applications for all of their drama departments. how could some of these schools mentioned (that quite frankly few have even heard of) have close to the same? Even Ithaca, do you believe more people audition for just their BFA MT program than in all the areas at Carnegie Mellon? I don’t. This kind of stuff scares kids and leads them to believe there is NO chance and that it is like winning a lottery. I’m not accusing anyone of lying, but either the schools are misleading people or these are just urban legends. Even in the case of CMU, notice how it says “applications” NOT AUDITIONS. My daughter sent in an application, but never auditioned. I’m sure she is one of hundreds.
I’ve copied and pasted from Carnegie Mellon’s website just to illustrate.</p>
<p>“How many students apply to the School of Drama? How many are admitted?
In 2011, the School of Drama received over 1300 applications. This number varies from year to year. Typically around 80 students are admitted to the School of Drama every year, and approximately 60 are enrolled. On average, 12-14 students are admitted into Music Theatre, 16-18 in Acting, 20-25 in Design/Production, 5-7 in Directing, and 5-7 in Dramaturgy.”</p>
<p>What would be meaningful data to me: the total number of slots available for MT majors for all schools, the total number of students applying, and the total that are ultimately acceptedm into a program.</p>
<p>I think regional and unified auditions make these numbers pretty meaningless. Hordes of kids are applying to programs that even the applicants have never heard of but they just want someone to take them. It’s getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone believes these numbers are 100% accurate - as several have pointed out, there are different ways of, for example, counting applications or auditions. I also completely believe that a school like Ithaca may get as many or more auditions than CMU. There are so many factors that come into play…just as an example, my D is applying to Ithaca but not CMU (don’t misinterpret this…CMU is a fabulous program, but is not a good fit for my D). Some people shy away from the well-known schools; others shy away from the ones that require pre-screen DVDs. Some prefer programs that concentrate more on singing, others shy away from those with dance auditions. I think if you take the numbers with a grain of salt, it is helpful. I also think it’s good for the kids and their parents to be a little scared. (Not scared off, but realistically scared!) There are no guarantees, and the competition IS very tough. I know some extremely talented kids who only applied to 2 or 3 schools and got in nowhere. If they or their parents had read this thread (and the many other helpful threads on CC), they may have applied to more schools and they may have gotten into a program somewhere. Bottom line: are these numbers 100% accurate? Probably not, and they change each year as well. But are they in the ball park? Probably. The vast majority of people posting here are well-versed in this process. Some are college coaches, others work for the colleges and universities themselves. These numbers come from websites, and from what people are hearing from college officials when they go to audition. Or from students who are at the schools now. I think these numbers are incredibly helpful, and I would love to have (as others have suggested) an updated 2012 list. If we know and understand the odds, we are all better off. I, for one, would rather know how tough it really is, and be ecstatic if my D does get in somewhere, than go into this process expecting her to get in and being devastated when she doesn’t. Knowledge is power!</p>
<p>I do think that all of the auditioned BFA’s are statistically tough to get into, I just don’t think that they are equal in quality. Sometimes these numbers make it sound as though school A is equal to school B in terms of training and value of degree. I’m trying very hard to avoid the temptation of being happy to be accepted anywhere that advertises BFA MT. I have seen alot of people fall into that trap and not improve a whole lot in 4 years although they think they got a great triple-threat education.</p>
<p>^^This statement bothers me a bit because “quality” means different things to different people. No, there is no way to judge the “quality” of a program (whatever that may mean to you) by viewing the statistics pertaining to numbers auditioning/admitted/yield. </p>
<p>However, it is very useful for future prospective students to see in a graphical way just how competitive each school is.</p>
<p>Not everyone is interested in applying to only “top” programs (again, whatever that may mean to you) and looking at these statistics may help some students find programs where there odds are a little better so that they DO have “someplace” to study MT even if they might not be competitive for a “top” program. (I HATE that term, BTW, can you tell?)</p>
<p>^^^I’m with TracyVP in that I believe the “top” is subjective. You decide what your own idea of top is and then just run with it.</p>
<p>I don’t think the number of auditions that a school processes is useful data if you are using it to think about acceptance odds. Number of auditions is an arbitrary decision that a school can make and change in any given year by adding prescreens, more auditors, less auditors etc. They get to decide how many they are willing to process and hope the demand is there to fill up the slots.</p>
<p>But come to think about it, accept/yield or number of available seats doesn’t really give you a good sense of the acceptance odds either unless you assume that there is a similar number of truly competitive (talented) prospects in every audition pool at every school. Is there?</p>
<p>Leaving academics, essays, type etc. out of it for a moment, if we took the entire universe of MTs auditioning in any given year and could magically group them into “top tier talent”, “second tier talent”, “and everyone else who is either not competitively talented or simply ill prepared”. </p>
<p>Do the same number (number - not necessarily the same person) of “top tier” prospects audition at every school? Could be but how would you know? By way of extreme and deliberately ludicrous example: My daughter who I consider to be legitimately competitive didn’t audition at every school that is hot on CC. So when she wasn’t at a particular school, did somebody just like her take her place to keep the truly competitive talent pool at an even number? If yes, then perhaps you can calculate “odds of acceptance” by knowing how many people a school will accept but if no one of similar talent took her place, then the odds got better for everyone else who auditioned. </p>
<p>NYU and U Mich are very hot schools. NYU has 64 MT spots, U Mich has 20. If the same number of top tier talent auditions at both programs, then you could conclude that U Mich is the harder school to get into. But if 3x as many of the top tier talent students audition at NYU than they do at U Mich, the odds are the same. Which is the case? I don’t know. How could we possibly know?</p>
<p>Now take a school that nobody ever talks about on CC, U Hogwarts. Hogwarts has 20 seats and if only 2 of the top talent tier audition along with 400 second tier talent students, I’m thinking the odds for those 2 top tier students must be close to 100 percent. Brilliant. But the odds for the 400 second tier students are staggering - conclusion, that’s a really hard school to get into if you are a second tier talent student and thus, a very competitive school by that measure.</p>
<p>In summary, even though I may have caused the rekindling of this by a question posed in another thread, the numbers are interesting to know and I’m as curious about them as the next guy/gal, but they don’t really tell you anything.</p>
<p>@Halflokum, I agree that the numbers won’t tell you acceptance odds at any one particular school because of the variables you mentioned. However, it does give you some inkling that the odds of getting into any BFA audition school are low. In other words, it is a competitive field! And that, in an of itself, is important and worth stressing…over and over.</p>
<p>But should getting into any BFA audition school really be the goal? Any? I’m having trouble with this.</p>
<p>For some people it is. For most, it’s getting into the “best” BFA school for which you are competitive. And the terms “best” and being “competitive” are hard things to nail down. You might be a PERFECT candidate for, say Carnegie Mellon, but this particular year they are thinning out their crop of blonde, legit singers and that’s your “type.” Or, even though Michigan loves you for their program, the admissions people don’t feel you’re quite up to par academically. Or CCM needs only one baritone this year and you lost the flip of the coin. </p>
<p>There are so many factors that go into a school’s decision, you really can’t say that just because you didn’t get into one of the “top” schools this particular year, you won’t succeed in the business (we have all discussed ad infinitum the number of very successful artists who don’t have a BFA or even a degree at all!). </p>
<p>But just because a school isn’t one of the highly-touted “top” schools (at least not this year) doesn’t mean you won’t receive EXCELLENT training there, and THAT IS the goal. Remember that we are talking about getting an education. If your own goal is to be trained by the most “prestigious” instructors, you might just as well move to NY and find the “singing, acting and dancing instructors to the stars” and pay them to train you. If you are looking for a different experience, you go to a University or Conservatory program. Everyone needs to do their homework and decide which experience and/or schools offer the “best” training for their particular needs and skillset.</p>
<p>@Actor12, no of course not. You are absolutely correct. If you know the odds of getting into any BFA program are low, then you should spend more time trying to find programs that fit you (or your child), and applying to those that are a good fit. And maybe some of the schools that are a good fit are not BFA schools. The bottom line is that it is a very competitive field, both for colleges and for jobs, and there are many, many paths any one particular person can take to their definition of success. The short-term goal is to find a school that is a good fit for you, and where you will learn and flourish (and hopefully a place where you can bring something to the school, as well). Each student will have a different fit, and will want different things from a program. The long-term goal is going to differ from student to student, too. Some want to be on Broadway. Others just want to perform, anywhere. Still others want to teach, or be in the business side of the industry. So your goal is what your goal is…that may or may not involve getting into an audition BFA program. I just think if kids and parents realize how difficult it is to get into any of these programs, they will broaden their horizons and think outside the envelope, if you will, to find a way to achieve their long-term goals.</p>
<p>@tracyvp, I keep looking for the “like” button (a la Facebook) when I read your posts… :)</p>
<p>Yep! It is entirely possible to find a BA program that you prefer to “any” auditioned BFA and you will still be able to study musical theater just fine by cobbling together a program that suits you. USC. Northwestern. Yale. That’s just for starters but the list goes on and on. BTW- I do agree the focus on auditioned BFA’s on these boards is excessive.</p>
<p>Flossy, one reason it may seem that the emphasis on auditioned BFA programs is excessive on this forum is because that is a very specialized admissions process that most BAs (the non-auditioned ones) don’t include. And of course it is HIGHLY competitive. Now, some BAs, like the ones you mention…Yale, USC, Northwestern are very competitive in their own right too, but don’t involve the whole audition layer of the process. The application process is similar to applying for any major. There are also lots and lots of BA programs and a much more finite number of BFA programs. So, the processes are different and also many guidance counselors are ill equipped to assist in the BFA selection and admissions process. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Soozievt, is right. Schools and guidance counselors know NOTHING about this process. They think if you have a 2400 on your SAT’S, of course you are getting into Ithaca! Wrong! And if you have a B average, no way are you getting into CMU. Wrong again. </p>
<p>This is an entirely different process. And of course, BA’s like Northwestern, Muhelenberg, etc. are great… but it is all about your grades and scores to get into the school, so you can get advice elsewhere. </p>
<p>And honestly I feel like there is plenty of info here on those great BA schools too.</p>
<p>This process seems a little crazy. Pay for application and audition fees at 20 programs, audition and see what happens. Then pick a college. Yes, my counselor would be baffled.</p>
<p>I am one of the lucky ones! My D’s guidance counselor had a D who went through the process (but for Music/performance) so she gets it. Not quite the same, but the auditioning is similar.</p>
<p>This is such a crazy journey; my only help has been reading CC and a book I picked up on the subject. My D’s college counselor was very well aware of how difficult it is to compete for places in audition-based programs and started off with fairly discouraging comments about the process to my D. However, this counselor simply didn’t understand specifically how BFA MT programs are different from dance BFA programs, music programs, or even BA acting programs. And now, after 16 auditions, D has several acceptances, all but one from schools OTHER than the 7 or so we visited for on-campus auditions (one twice!). So now we are totally scrambling to visit the programs she has been accepted to (in between band concerts, choir concerts, acappella group concerts, senior day and prom) and to figure out what is the “best fit,” with limited time on each campus. And how do you even begin to think about a wait list school? Can someone tell me, besides UMich, CCM, CMU, NYU, what are the other programs now considered to be the “top” providers of “triple threat” training? I thought once she was into a program, this would be easy, but there is absolutely NOTHING easy about this process!</p>