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<p>It certainly sounds like Tyler’s “new home” became a hostile environment. Probably not what he hoped for and imagined when he started college.</p>
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Exactly. </p>
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Too bad Clementi wasn’t able to figure out Ravi had such a deviant side to him, over the summer, before they met. Maybe he would still be alive.</p>
<p>No, NSM, it doesn’t mean that at all. Ravi posted that BEFORE trying to turn on the webcam a second time. If that is in fact Ravi’s post, it is clear that he INTENDED to share what the webcam showed. From the charges, we know that the attempt was not successful. If the posts in the chatroom about the roommate spying are in fact from Clementi, we know that the attempt failed because he turned off Ravi’s computer and pulled the plug. </p>
<p>Again, I agree that what Ravi and Wei are charged with doing is horrific, but as far as we know, the only thing that was videostreamed was a kiss on or about Sept. 19. We do not know how many people saw it.</p>
<p>But Clementi may have discovered the intent to distribute, or discussion of the events. The mere thought of the potential for uncontrolled spread (going viral) is very powerful. That’s where any discussion of this being a “prank” stops for me. The intent was clearly there to distribute, to embarrass, to ridicule, to devalue. I don’t think it’s huge stretch to consider that their reckless disregard for his life, while willfully committing a crime, contributed to his death.</p>
<p>"The intent was clearly there to distribute, to embarrass, to ridicule, to devalue. I don’t think it’s huge stretch to consider that their reckless disregard for his life, while willfully committing a crime, contributed to his death. "</p>
<p>I can understand how learning that he was the target of such hateful intent could drive a person to suicide. As I think someone posted here before, many gay teens look forward to college hoping that it will serve as a place where they can safely be welcomed as themselves.</p>
<p>Learning that his roommate had such vicious intent toward him could have pushed Clementi over the edge. He may have give up hope of ever being welcomed by society at large.</p>
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<p>This probably won’t be seen but I have to respond. I was not arguing that what Ravi and Wei did was right or excusable. What I see on this board is a very anxious and excessive rejection of their behavior as aberrant when I feel it is in fact quite common, if contemptible. The twist in this case is the irresponsible use of technology, which is actually relatively “new” and which kids of my generation did not have the power to access. That is why the Dean of Students, in Soozievt’s comment, says that he has "not seen anything like this before.’ I feel that people overestimate their own goodness by identifying evil in the Other, and there is a powerful whiff of that in this board. I have spent many years working with kids ages 15-21 and let me tell you, it ain’t all sweetness and light. You don’t have to believe me if it makes you feel better.</p>
<p>while i still think that what those two students did was deeply disturbed and pathetic (not to mention cowardly to the bone), i agree with those who say that more information is needed. we simply don’t have all the facts, and what we do know–while it makes for a nice neat little ‘lifetime movie’ scenario (and will probably be turned into one eventually)-- leaves too many questions. </p>
<p>i remember a couple of weeks ago there was a thread or three about ‘sexiling’ and several folks were outraged (i was one of them) that students should ever have to put up with anything like that. we really don’t know how often this student (ravi) was subjected to being sexiled. it seems unreasonable that anyone would ask someone to leave their room for 3 hours while they handled their sexual business–especially this early in the school year before any real levels of trust and rapport have had a chance to grow. it’s clear that ravi lacked the social skills to confront clementi and tell him that he was very uncomfortable with being asked to leave his room. add the layer of homosexuality to the mix, and u have a bad situation. it really isn’t so hard to believe that a hetero (or uncertain) boy of this age would be uncomfortable in this situation and lack the tools to deal with his feelings (esp. if the very topic of homosexuality was taboo in his household, as it is in many american households). while more tolerant (probably) than prior generations, boys this age are still uncomfortable with sexuality (their own included). i can imagine that both boys felt lots of anxiety about this situation they found themselves in. maybe colleges need to ask about sexual orientation before assigning rooms? maybe this case will prompt that change in the future.</p>
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<p>Surely you are not implying that because you are accepting of your childrens’ sexuality and choices that this would necessarily apply to others. None of us know Clementi’s situation. We certainly can’t know how his parents would have reacted to the facts of his orientation-surely he would know better than we-nor can we know what his PERCEPTIONS of their reaction to the news would be. You really have no basis to assert that his parents finding out about his sexuality would not be a huge thing to them or him. This is an UNKNOWN.</p>
<p>NJSue: i agree. it helps us feel better about ourselves because we know that WE (or OUR KIDS) would never do that, because we aren’t “evil”. </p>
<p>i disagree with the other sentiment on this thread that this generation of teens are somehow more mean-spirited than others. i actually have found the opposite to be true.</p>
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<p>It would probably be better, before you slam posters you don’t know well, to do a search of their posting history instead of assuming you know Fact One about their character, about their attitudes, and about how they measure human beings, including themselves. Clearly you have no clue that I’ve worked with 15-21 year-olds much of my life, and yes, I expect more than what I often see in the modern age, much of which is worse than the two classmates in question. Yes, surprise: I expect more out of my intimate associates. That doesn’t make me “overestimating of my own goodness.” It makes me a person with high standards who demands the same of my closest friends and associates. Too bad if you don’t believe that. I don’t really care if people think that having standards is a form of snobbery or a lack of self-awareness. Frankly that says more about the people making such judgments than it says about me.</p>
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<p>Maybe NSM. Maybe not. I won’t try to outguess that. But certainly I’ve read many accounts of people committing suicide because of the prospect of public humiliation. That’s happened, for example, in the case of political scandals (throughout history), in the case of “morals” scandals not related to homosexuality. (“illicit” sex of any kind; being found out as a embezzler; and more). I won’t also deny that being “outed” could have contributed even more to anticipated humiliation, but it could have existed without it as well. </p>
<p>I really like the earlier post by Inthebiz that described some classroom (or home?) discussions. Good for those teens.</p>
<p>I said “people,” I was not addressing you personally. As you correctly point out, I know nothing about you and am not qualified to judge your character. But evidently you feel free to judge mine. Goodnight.</p>
<p>This Slate article is worth a read:</p>
<p>[Webcams</a>, sex, and the death of privacy. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/id/2269301/]Webcams”>Webcams, sex, and the death of privacy.)</p>
<p>The mention of being “stoned out of my mind” on Ravi’s twitter feeds leads me to believe that there’s a good chance that being under the influence is caused Ravi to not consider the potential results implications of his actions.</p>
<p>[Dharun</a> Ravi Twitter | The Smoking Gun](<a href=“Dharun Ravi Twitter | The Smoking Gun”>Dharun Ravi Twitter | The Smoking Gun)</p>
<p>The general tone of Ravi’s Twitter suggests to me that he is not the sort of person who would be overly offended at being sexiled. Moreover, he evidently had a friend from high school, Wei, living nearby, which would have made being sexiled for a few hours a minimal inconvenience. </p>
<p>Whatever the explanations for the actions of the various people involved here, I doubt that an angry, offended reaction to being sexiled played a role. </p>
<p>Another point: Rutgers (or someone) seems to be doing a good job of protecting the identity of the young man Tyler was with that night. If he is a Rutgers student, I hope he is getting some counseling from the university. He is the forgotten victim here. His privacy was violated too, and he was involved in an incident that, through no fault of his, resulted in the death of a person he was dating.</p>
<p>^ For some reason, I sense that the other man involved may not have been a student. I read something how the man was older. If if was a student here, perhaps it could be a graduate student. Or maybe a man that he met somewhere.</p>
<p>Either way, yeah, his privacy was violated too and if he prefers to keep silent and hidden, it is best.</p>
<p>I find that my thoughts keep going to the other man who also was surreptitiously taped…what his thoughts and feelings are. This is an immense amount for him to handle. I am thankful that he has not been publicly identified as he has not stepped forward himself.</p>
<p>I wonder if he plans any legal action against the Ravi and Wei?</p>
<p>I don’t think the term sexiled applies to a request to use the room privately for a few hours. To me, sexiled implies the loss of the room without consent, or for a period of time longer than reasonable.</p>
<p>I kind of hope that Tyler’s date was older; he might be better able to cope with this horrible situation.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if he is not a member of the university community, he would not have access to the support that the university’s counseling services and LGBT organizations could provide.</p>
<p>The other guy will certainly be a witness if there is a trial instead of a plea bargain. The way things work these days, his identity will likely become public anyway.</p>
<p>I can only see this becoming more messy, if that word can be used for something so serious.</p>