@ivygreeklife. Yep, we’re still at it. Not talking about “pretty white girls,” though, so much as what that video represents: artificial, not so subtle attempts to limit opportunities for URMs on campus. Having “looks” be the apparent major criteria for anything at a university seems ridiculous to many.
I agree with Hanna and Cardinal Fang, especially that the camera is ogling the women. I have no idea if that was the intent of the sorority. When a Kardashian posts a selfie, I’m pretty sure there is deliberate intent to be provocative.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/alabama-sorority-video-director-defends-815996
Is he saying the video is his video, not so much their video? Does this have any parallels to Alabama sorority alum members telling active chapter members some of their selected new sisters are unacceptable?
I can’t get access to the Arizona Theta video he claims as inspiration, but would be pretty interested to see it.
This came across my news feed this morning. This is something that I think actually has the potential to damage the reputation of a college:
The frat house was private and off-campus. I don’t see how the school will get blamed for this. The Bama sorority house, I surmise, is on campus.
Harvestmoon: Thank you for posting that.
Another quote from the videographer. If I am understanding correctly, he says talking about sexism encourages it, so we shouldn’t talk about it. (I would love clarification of this. I understand media frequently misquotes or quotes out of context) I think talking about sexism and objectification is still pretty important. And it gets tangled up with rape culture. imho.
They were students at Old Dominion and they were blamed for it. The school made them take the banners down @GMTplus7.
625 - "The AO explained how the Honors students get first dibs for dorm assignments, first dibs for class assignments, and invitations to exclusive social events for Honor College students only."
644 - "No doubt the same racial dynamics are in play at other schools, including at the yankee schools."
It absurd to talk about the priority registration and the other benefits of the UA Honors College as a “academic racial caste system” and putting anyone “at the back of the bus”. These types of perks are almost universal when it comes to the honors colleges within state flagships all over the country. If UA wants to be compete in the academic marketplace for students of this caliber, how can they possibly do so if they don’t do the same?
I would be curious to know how much Bama honors students (many of whose parents post here) live and work and play with more “ordinary” Bama students. I recall that a parent here was very upset that her son wasn’t placed in honors housing until shortly before move-in day because he would have to live with regular Bama students. What proportion of Bama students are in the honors program?
Honors Colleges, and not just at Alabama, are another way students self-segregate. Of course, some students don’t even want to be in Honors programs.
@oldmom4896, the HC at Bama is quite large, although I couldn’t tell you off the top of my head how large. This recent thread may answer some of your questions:
I suspect the video was shot and produced with the approval of a limited number of the members of the house. It is unlikely that it was reviewed and voted on by the entire chapter before being disseminated. Most likely, the officers or the women in the film reviewed it and liked it. I hope people took note that the director has indicated that this house does not exclude minority members. Although I don’t know that this has been confirmed.
The film was not intended for the general public’s perusal or approval, rather to appeal to 18 year old women who just left high school. It feels very age-appropriate to me, not sexual, and I am the mother of two Ds not much older than the women in the film.
The responses of some of the women on this thread make me wonder if they are simply out of touch with teenage women of today. In my experience, it is very common for them to display their bodies and youthful good looks. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that; it probably has anthropological origins, and most of us probably agree that youthful good looks and women’s bodies are beautiful things, not shameful or certainly not sexual in an inappropriate way.
Someone used the word “creepy” to describe these young women earlier. I get a little creeped out by those who find this video overtly sexual. Even looking for those cues, I couldn’t find them in the film, until I was told that the couple of shots on certain of the acceptably-clothed body parts was a problem. I still don’t see it.
More than being creeped out, I am disappointed in the conclusions of some women here that the existence of this video means the women in it are brainless (and so much worse I don’t like to repeat it), and are to be scorned. This feels analogous to envious old women of Victorian times who would burn these women at the stake if they had the chance, and a modern-day version of that is essentially what you have done on a public message board.
I am fine with sorority girls displaying their bodies, Emily Sulkowicz displaying her body, Kardashians displaying their bodies, Miley displaying her body, Madonna. … These can be seen as examples of female empowerment. imho.
That is not my reaction to this particular video.
Here are some more “quick facts” from my son’s class at UA: http://viewbook.ua.edu/quick-facts/
“The North was not some place where Blacks experienced racial nirvana, not by any means. The greatest race riots were in NYC during the war between the states. Boston Whites rioted when busing was forced on them.”
Well, duh. Which is precisely what I said. I never said the North was perfect. I said that there was a SPECIAL KIND OF DEHUMANIZATION practiced in the South with the Jim Crow laws preventing blacks from sitting at the front of the bus, having separate drinking fountains, and so on and so forth. That is objectively worse.
It’s rather like saying to a German in the 1940’s “You Germans re throwing Jews into concentration camps” and having them respond back “Well, you Americans don’t let them into your country clubs.” Well, yeah, true, but one evil is worse than the other. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even the rioters in the North who were fighting school busing didn’t believe that blacks required separate drinking fountains and shouldn’t eat at the Woolworth’s lunch counter. Even Archie Bunker who didn’t want black men dating his daughter or moving in next door didn’t believe that black men shouldn’t sit wherever they liked on the NYC, Boston and Phila bus systems.
A special kind of dehumanization, Atlanta68. A very special kind of dehumanization. And in the 1960’s, the South needed to be dragged kicking and screaming by the rest of the country to stop it.
I always wonder – since the Confederate flag is flown “in honor of ancestors” - does that include only the ancestors who fought in the Civil War, or does it also include honoring those ancestors who voted in the legislators who made and enforced Jim Crow?
What is so hard about admitting that de jure segregation is far, far more worse than de facto segregation?
Have any of you ever watched the old Burns and Allen TV show? Gracie Allen played a bubbleheaded ninny on that show. That was her schtick, and she was really good at it. When I point out that fact, it does not mean that I think Gracie Allen was, in fact, a bubble-headed ninny.
So I think it’s a bit silly for some of you to get so up in arms when somebody says that this video portrays these women as vapid, shallow, bubble-headed ninnies, or whatever. It’s important not to confuse the advertisement with the reality. Indeed, I very much doubt if these women are as shallow as depicted in the video–most people aren’t that shallow in real life.
We can all have opinions on whether this level of conformity and body-focus is healthy or not, while still thinking that these women have the right to band together on those terms if they want to.
The racial discrimination issue is a different one. I think it’s fair to say that one can’t expect too much of these particular young women, other than to refrain from actual discrimination in their recruiting. I would like to see more from their national organizations, in terms of helping chapters do better outreach to diverse populations. And certainly universities, especially public ones, should make sure that campus organizations are following non-discrimination rules. But beyond that, it’s really hearts and minds that have to change.
And we should be able to do it without calling these women names. These are real young people, don’t forget, some of whom may be reading this thread, or one day might. I have had this issue with posters in several other threads, too. Would you call these women “bubble-headed ninnies” to their faces? I think the name-calling of real people who are not here to defend themselves should be scrubbed.
Bay, please try to understand that I am not calling these young women names. I am saying that the video portrays them in a certain way, in the same way that a McDonalds commercial portrays Ronald McDonald as a clown.
I might ask one of these women to her face why she allowed a video to be sent out that portrayed her as a bubble-headed ninny. That’s what I would ask my daughter if she were in a similar situation.
The dissing of Chrystal Stallworth, a half-black girl
http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/news/a10379/revolution-on-sorority-row-september-2014/
Someone please, please, please help me understand why anyone would want to be part of an institution that would diss you for wearing an ugly dress…
Is there any equivalence in the social lock-out and isolation discussed in this article?
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/3/26/regional-diversity-scrutiny/
If my pretty, fun 18 year old daughter were watching this video I imagine her asking “What do these women do all day? Clearly they dance, wave, primp, swim, dance, blow kisses, eat popsicles, watch football and dance, but isn’t there anything else?”
I wonder if you were to change the title of the video to “The Women of Hugh Hefner” if anyone would notice.