<p>Interesting and honest article written by a Chinese mom, Amy Chua of The Wall Street Journal, who notes that other Asian cultures share similar values. </p>
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<p>[Why</a> Chinese Mothers Are Superior - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read]Why”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read)</p>
<p>I have seen Chinese parents (and other Asian parents) who are far more driven than westerners. However, Amy Chua is at the extreme side. </p>
<p>Personally, I believe in a mixture of the eastern hard-working/taking-no-excuse attitude with the western free-spirit/enjoying-the-process philosophy.</p>
<p>I have 100% Chinese blood and so do most of my classmates. Parents pushed me to play the piano and I don’t regret it, probably the only thing from that list that holds true. We sleepover each others’ houses like crazy, I’m president of the theatre club and most of us are of Chinese descent, I always choose my own ECAs lol, here parents don’t care about their childrens’ ECAs or grades, it is the child’s own life and responsibility, and frankly I think that’s the way things should be these days.</p>
<p>For an opposing point of view, see this article by Shannon Love, who says that the Chinese style of parenting does a disservice to their children because participating in sports, theater, marching band, etc., teaches a child how to work as a member of a team.</p>
<p>[Chicago</a> Boyz Blog Archive Not So Superior Chinese Mothers](<a href=“http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/18962.html]Chicago”>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/18962.html)</p>
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I think this is really true–which is one reason that many of the stereotypes or observations (take your pick) about Asian students today are so similar to those about Jewish students of a generation or two ago. I think the focus on medicine as a career is part of this–it’s a high-paying, but also highly portable career.</p>
<p>I think any of these “non-US” parenting styles that are being used may also have to do with the circle of friends the parents keep. We live in a diverse area, S’s girlfriend is Asian, our church has a Hispanic congregation that I interact with often and D has a few friends with foreign-born parents. </p>
<p>for example: S’s GF was born here but her mother still speaks little English and her social circle are all Asians. GF has little personal freedom even as a college student. Her Christmas break was filled with lessons and practices and family obligations scheduled by her mom. They have dated almost 3 years and she still spends very little time at our house and has to be home by 10p when in town. Yet an Asian friend of my Ds who was not born in US, but has been here about 10 years, has parents who still speak very little English, but they are very involved in helping at school and in community, etc and he often has more freedoms than my D. I see the same type of situation in our Hispanic church.</p>
<p>I’m not saying their ways are wrong…I just wanted to point out the possible impact of cultural norms and peer influence.</p>
<p>Interesting study, jonri (post 258)! Though I do wonder why scientists set up studies like that one because it seems as if the results could be explained by many different factors, not necessarily the hypothesis being tested. </p>
<p>In that study, my kids would have asked me to go over the questions with them. 
But you know, I see a lot of Americanism in that concept, too - as well as the Eastern European peasant immigrant mindset, with which I am more than familiar. Regarding Chua’s approach - I don’t see how positive reinforcement is less effective than negative reinforcement in child-rearing. Of course, there are times when a child needs a negative response rather than a positive one. But why make the kid miserable when she’s sitting at the piano, which is the behavior you want to reinforce?</p>
<p>If you’re interested, there is a response article on MSNBC’s “Behind the Wall” now about what they’re calling mommy wars, which makes some of the same counter points made on this thread.</p>
<p>What I’ve personally adopted from the Asian approach and from Malcolm Gladwell’s book is the understanding that talent and intelligence are both overrated. Hard work and persistence can compensate for deficiencies in natural ability and even result in achievement surpassing that of individuals with greater innate talent. I have certainly seen this by watching my children and their peers. Just his week I learned of several former or current teammates of D’s who just quit the sport. D is having a tough time right now as an athlete (she is new to a very strong team and is behind the level of the others), but I encouraged her to stick with the training and keep plugging away. Sometimes you just have to outlast the competition in order to succeed. Too many American kids quit when the going gets tough or when they are no longer the “star.”</p>
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<p>This is so true. Partially from worshipping talents. Somewhat fatalistic. Reminds me of my D’s practice in parallel parking. She learned the how to. Tried it out three times. Got it right twice and called it done. Next day under the pressure, she promptly fails it two minutes into the road test. When I had a chance, I pointed out the virtues of repeated practice. She practiced over and over again this time made it absolutely proficient. Sweet taste of the familiarity one gets when doing without the need to think. Breezed through the road test.</p>
<p>“Hard work and persistence can compensate for deficiencies in natural ability and even result in achievement surpassing that of individuals with greater innate talent”</p>
<p>I am a strong advocated of persistence (I have a John Q Adams quote about it on my facebook page). But I think there are limits to what REASONABLE (IE making second string ice hockey team may not justify the same amount of persistence as stopping the Conferates at Little Round Top does) amounts of persistence can do, in many fields, depending on talent. I also recognize that over estimated the role of hard work and persistence in success has profound political/economic implications. </p>
<p>There is also a reasonable question about where you focus your hard work and persistence. My DD wants to be an Architect, a field where I think she has natural talents (a combination of math ability, visual sense, and artistry). We insisted she persist in finishing her portfolio for RPI, and in doing the applications for the schools she was considering. Once she was in - well - we insisted she get good enough grades to avoid any danger of recission - and she herself insisted on doing a good job on her senior tech lab project, which was an architectural design. She slacked off a bit on Geosystems though, and on Japanese, once the AP exam was done. I couldnt see a cost benefit to persistence - certainly nothing as valuable as the social skills improvement from FINALLY having some time with her friends under less academic pressure, after 4 years at TJ.</p>
<p>“Make sure they are enrolled in Saturday classes at CTY”</p>
<p>Ironically in the CTY residential programs, they DO NOT ALLOW the kids to do homework after hours. They are REQUIRED to choose an evening leisure activity.</p>
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<p>That might be what really behind a “Chinese mother”'s parenting. Given two students with comparable records, a school wants to know which is which because you may get more out of one but not the other in college.</p>
<p>I was speaking to a Chinese client yesterday who has a six year old daughter. She said “my daughter knows that the only career I will accept is a medical career…she will be a doctor.” The child attends private lessons for the violin, swimming, gymnastics, math class in China all summer, Chinese school every week and Reading and writing instruction to enhance her verbal abilties for future tests. It sounds almost impossible to participate in all of these activities but it is the norm where I live in the Chinese community. This child functions like a 9 year old and is very independent and permitted to express herself her feeling even if her mother is cringinging on the inside. I have never seen the “stick” as a punishment but rather the push to not accept nothing but the best from their children.</p>
<p>But what if that kind of motivation is also a natural talent, in the sense that some people are ‘naturals’ at being able to push themselves and some people don’t have that natural drive?</p>
<p>By separating out the notion of hard work, persistence, etc. from the notion of natural ability, we may be making a false dichotomy here. Just as we can’t make a math genius out of someone who may not be naturally talented in math (although we can do things to improve math ability, but only to a certain limit), we might say the same thing about persistence, etc.</p>
<p>“my daughter knows that the only career I will accept is a medical career…she will be a doctor”</p>
<p>I think this attitude absolutely delights the proprietors of medical schools in the Caribbean ;)</p>
<p>My kids went to a prep day school in the northeast before we moved out. I would say most kids there were Caucasians (both wasps and Jews), small percentage of Asians (Indians, Chinese), and very few blacks. My kids were doing 15 to 20 hours of ballet, and few other ECs. Their (white) friends were just as busy they were. They had ice skating practice at 5am, soccer, track, lacrosse practice until 8pm, and weekend traveling games. A lot of them had private academic tutors when my kids didn´t. For a lot of those sports, those parents hired private coach for their kids, and many of those kids got into HYPS because of sports. Sleepovers didn´t happen too often either because most of those kids had early practice or away games on weekends. It was a standard schedule that all of those kids stayed in on Sun to do their homework. I don´t think this “over scheduling” and pushing only happen in the Asian family.</p>
<p>In speaking with D2´s private college counselor, largest percentage of his clients are not Asians. Many Caucasians are willing to spend 20k+ to get their kids into top schools.</p>
<p>ok so yea, I’m living under some rock; didn’t hear about this kakmame book till she appeared on The Today Show this morning; then I remembered seeing this thread on CC at some point…</p>
<p>Have only read up to p 14 of this thread (gotta get to work) so obviously I haven’t read the book…</p>
<p>my observations (based on her Today Show appearance):</p>
<p>1) I’m dying to know where she is bringing up her children (so I make sure to tell my kids to not EVER live there)</p>
<p>2) there is something very “fishy” about all of this; agree with those who think this is ahuge PR campaign…she appears on TV like a “real housewife” of somewhere, not an intellectual, hard-…</p>
<p>3)I would be more likely to read the daughters’ follow-up book</p>
<p>4) kudos to hyjeonlee’s multiple posts: I would read her “book” in a heartbeat…</p>
<p>5) as a funny note, her appearance followed “Snooki’s” intro of her new book…I bet that the former is a more successful PR person…she actually appeared more “real” to me…and I HATE The Jersey Shore franchise…</p>
<p>I agree with you, BrooklynDad, that one has to be wise with regard to the target of one’s diligent hard work. However, this is one area where Chinese and Americans sometimes differ. If my child were very short but loved basketball, I personally would be reluctant to encourage excessive dedication to that endeavor. In fact, DH and I have made similar cost-benefit analyses of EC’s with our children by assessing their talents, our financial constraints, and the political reailities in the town, school, or team, etc. D left behind soccer, which she liked better, to pursue a different sport in which we saw greater pay-off potential. However, I remember chatting about this decision with a group of other American moms. They were appalled at the utilitarian method we used to make the choice. For them, what the children liked best, or what made them most comfortable or happiest should always be the choice.</p>
<p>skrlvr: great point. One could argue that the ability to take initiative, set a goal, and self-motivate is a talent in and of itself. (That is probably the only talent my special needs daughter has, yet it is reaping nice results.) Pushing oneself to work hard could be innate, but it also can be learned.</p>
<p>“For them, what the children liked best, or what made them most comfortable or happiest should always be the choice”</p>
<p>well for one thing, you are only young once. I dont think youth is just a prepartion for adulthood, let alone for adult career success. Second, I think for most kids, what they like and what they are good at are OFTEN well correlated. Thirdly, I think learning to make their own decisions is itself an important life skill.</p>
<p>I mean when you say “what made them most comfie” do you mean they did, say chorus, cause it was easy and fun, when tuba would have added more to their resume, and they had some natural talent at Tuba? Or that they spent their time playing video games, watching TV, and eating doritos? </p>
<p>My perspective is different I guess - on the one hand my kid has been self motivated - she has ADD-inattentive and sometimes underperforms her “potential” but she gets as upset about that as anyone (to the point of begging usd for ADD meds when DW was reluctant) and does not need a kick in the pants (with RARE exceptions) and she also struggled socially for a long time, so ANY EC that made her comfortable and connected was high benefit for us. </p>
<p>Im sure there are some parents who are apathetic, with apathetic kids. After 4 years in the TJ bubble (and most of our friends not from TJ are Jews who live in NoVa, which means almost as driven) I tend to see the parenting ranged from “jonny inc control freaks” to “sane”. Maybe there are parents who need to be MORE anxious about their kids not being success oriented enough. Certainly not around here though.</p>