Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother - new book about Chinese parenting

<p>^ All good points. No hard and fast rule covers parenting!</p>

<p>One mom I know has a bright but not very motivated son. In middle school, the teachers noted his ability and kept suggesting placement in more advanced classes. For a few years, the kid would start out in September in an advanced class or two (kicking and screaming), but then would switch out into lower level classes where he “felt more comfortable and where his friends were”. Later in high school, again teachers told my friend that her S was not working up to his potential and should be in higher classes. She agreed, but did not insist he change because she felt his comfort and happiness were more important. Barring my kid having some real emotional or psychological problem, I can’t imagine myself making that choice, nor can I imagine any of my Asian friends doing so. Quite the opposite–they’d be pushing for their kids to be placed in higher classes.</p>

<p>The real Chinese mothers I have talked to recently about the book/article, most of whom were born in mainland China, received education both in China and in the US (while certainly not as impressive as Chau’s credentials, most of them have advanced degrees and respectable jobs) are outraged by Chau’s labeling her extreme nutcase type as “Chinese mothers”. They feel that while there’s some fundamental truth in how they perceive the role education plays in their kids’ future success, the way Chau suggests Chinese mothers are implementing their “agenda” is simply not true with MOST Chinese families. They are worried that Chau’s book, given her Yale professor status and the spotlight it received from WSJ, may further stereotype Asian kids and families, which could have a damaging effect in the long run.</p>

<p>Chau as someone born in the US, whose parents immigrated from Indonesia (?), is a non Madarin speaking “partial” Chinese. In the excerpts of her book as in WSJ, she talked about Chinese people’s philosophies/beliefs. Part of what she said is clearly “out-of-date” (e.g. the idea that children owe their parents forever, which was abandoned by educated people a long time ago), but most importantly she missed one most important piece, which is constantly seeking the balance of life or “middle way”, a cornerstone of the dominating Chinese philosophies (i.e. Confucianism, Taoism and Zen). Hard working and self-displined as they are, Chinese people natually hate extremes of any kind and try to avoid situations that cause a great deal of stress. Also, some highly edcuated Chinese Americans, who have come to the US in the past few decades, are open minded and have embraced western ideas more than what’s shown in the clothes they wear and the food they eat. They don’t shut the outside world off by imposing all those “no no no” rules to their kids but rather spend a lot of time and energy trying to find the best “middle way” between the two very different systems so their kids will be sucessful AND happy.</p>

<p>I saw that article, read a few paragraphs and thought, “who cares”.</p>

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<p>Or, she’s more Chinese than your friends since she/her family didn’t experience the Cultural Revolution/destruction/interruption (just another point of view).</p>

<p>Well, then maybe “Chinese mothers” should be replaced by “Chinses mothers except those those from China”. :)</p>

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<p>Philippines.</p>

<p>However, in many countries in the region, Chinese people are an economically successful, but locally resented, minority group. There is enough anti-Chinese discrimination around that Chinese people in that region often feel that they must be the best possible in school, job, etc. in order to counteract said discrimination. Of course, that continues the cycle, as Chinese people continue to be more economically successful and locally resented and discriminated against, etc…</p>

<p>It would not be surprising if such a belief exists (though to a lesser extent) in the United States. For example, all of the suspicion that some universities in the United States try to limit the number of Chinese and other Asian students may contribute to the idea that Chinese and other Asian students must be that much better than students of other ethnic groups to get into the top universities.</p>

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See, this is what I don’t get about the focus of Chinese parents on only a few musical instruments, sports and activities. If part of their goal is admission to highly selective US universities, this is not a wise strategy at all. A really savvy Chinese parent would give his kid an accordion, and make him practice that for three hours a day, or take up fencing instead of tennis, or even, learn Arabic instead of Chinese.</p>

<p>Here’s another cultural difference… When there’s cold, snowy weather in the US, school administrators cancel classes. In China, they give the kids their own coal-burner and send them to school:</p>

<p>[Behind</a> The Wall - As America’s youth celebrate, China burns](<a href=“http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/11/5812246-as-americas-youth-celebrate-china-burns]Behind”>http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/11/5812246-as-americas-youth-celebrate-china-burns)</p>

<p>glad I had a real childhood</p>

<p>Roger_Dooley – Thanks for posting that. But considering they have open ‘heaters’, mostly improvised, and the classrooms are ‘unventilated’, I’d be more concerned with the kids’ carbon monoxide blood-levels than with any possible learning that might take place.</p>

<p>There is nothing in that article that is not true in my town, with regard to the Chinese community. I have had a working relationship for many years now and have several Chinese clients that I would consider to be more than just clients. I have watched how being number 1 is the only acceptable spot to be in but I will say that the self esteem of Chinese students is unmatched. I have never witnessed a Chinese parent complementing their child or boasting about their abilties, rather is is far more common to ask why they can not perform to the A plus level in every subject. It is just expected, and if it can’t be done the child with the parents help will master the subject. It is not uncommon for parents to sit for hours with their children every single night. It could explain why so many Chinese children are sick so much of the winter. Sick and all, they attend school and lessons are still expected to work hard.</p>

<p>A voice from a different generation of Chinese parents was an author/artist Jade Snow Wong. I read her book about harsh parenting methods when I was a kid. </p>

<p>Ultimate: My husband interviews/ed for an Ivy. One year he interviewed a young man from the top prep school in our city. Kid’s credentials: perfect SATs, SAT2s, 4.7 gpa…and extra curriculars. Problem(s)? Boy couldn’t make eye contact. And when my husband asked why he wanted to go to the school the answer was, “I always wanted to go to college out of the city.” When informed that the school was not only in the city, but in a bad neighborhood, kid was confused. He (and possibly his parents) had not idea where he was applying save for the name.</p>

<p>My husband did not recommend him for admission. He didn’t get into another Ivy for the same reason. (We know the interviewer from that school. Over dinner he related the same scenario.) The parents went to both schools demanding redress. But he did get into several other Ivies. But the parents couldn’t let it go.</p>

<p>given the number of placements at Ivies and other top 20 schools, every year, the percent that are chinese, and the number of 1st gen Chinese american families, there must be a LOT of disappointed chinese parents. Ditto on medical schools.</p>

<p>Even the most insane old style Jewish parents were usually willing to accept law or accounting or dentistry in lieu of medicine.</p>

<p>btw, the reason school is cancelled for snow in the US is due to liability from school bus accidents.</p>

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This is only true if you believe ALL Chinese parents believe the ultimate is the Ivies or medical schools.</p>

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<p>Haven’t you met any Chinese accountants or dentists? Just look into the yellow pages.</p>

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This should debunk the notion that going to a selective university is really their goal.</p>

<p>OMG - all of those unvented, indoor coal heaters - I agree with Novelisto - this is CO poisoning and/or fires waiting to happen! If the kids survive that, they have the effects of sulfur dioxide, oxides of nitrogen and particulates in an indoor environment. Someone needs to do something about this!</p>

<p>cbreeze</p>

<p>sorry if i did not make myself clear. I think the kind of tiger mom described in the wsj excerpt of this book is an over the top exagerration. </p>

<p>OTOH I suspect that for that portion of the chinese community, that does come close to this stereotype, there is a considerable amount of dissappointment in the end results.</p>

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<p>I said to the Chinese mothers I mentioned earlier - don’t fret. You can go ahead and remind people that Chinese community is a diverse community, not as easily categorized as the “Chinese mothers” as in the dictionary of Professor Chau’s. However, if people don’t buy it and insist that all Chinses mothers are “Chinese mothers”, then next time when they see an A+ Chinese kid, they’d feel easier knowing they have paid a big price (basically their life) to be there.</p>

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Nobody thinks this, any more than anybody thinks ALL Jewish mothers are the same, or all soccer parents are the same. However, in all of these categories, there are certain common behaviors, and there are some extreme versions of those behaviors. That’s what we’re talking about here. I note that you also can’t deny the existence of certain behaviors and defend them at the same time.</p>

<p>I think my siL is secretly chinese-american! half sister of the author of this book! My brother and SIL have one lovely, intelligent little girl age 10. My SIL has focused her entire life around this child and her success…but for her, success is being not only the top academically but also beautiful, accomplished and socially at the top. Respectful behavior (particularly toward Mommy) is non-negotiable. I don’t have too much problem with the latter except for the sticks used to enforce this (guilt! or worse)…you hurt mommy’s feelings so she won’t talk to y ou for the rest of the day (this to a three year old)…you were rude after being warned so now you will take your favorite toy (that your mother thinks is not age appropriate) and give it to charity. She actually marched the poor 6 year old down to the goodwill to deliver a little ride-on toy that she adored even though it was meant for a 3-4 year old. My brother said she cried for a week and only stopped when her mother said that more toys would be donated unless the weeping came to an end. Luckily, my brother does his best ot even out the type of discipline although he is quite strict it is less emotional (you are rude, no gameboy for rest of day etc). Academically, SIL frets that her daughter is top student in her quite good public school and wants to send her private to really challenge her. My parents have established a really good fund for college for all the grandkids but have absolutely refused to let it be used for private grade or high school…since in their opinion the public schools that the grandkids go to are perfectly adequate and I don’t see SIL’s parents with much more money offering to pay for private school (or college expenses) either.</p>

<p>I see my niece has a very strong character and is showing interesting methods to jerk mommy’s chain. For example, SIL is pretty much a germ/clean freak so her little girl will say…oh dear, I went to the bathroom at the mall with aunty (me) and I forgot to wash my hands and then I ate lunch…oh dear, I hope I don’t get sick"…the effect is to have mommy feel quite ill from the gross images raised by daughter and it is hard to punish someone who seems to be genuinely horrified at poor hygiene. BUT I say nothing knowing that niece washes hands quite compulsively at every bathroom stop this was just a little bit of payback for the relentless nagging from mommy…</p>