<p>“Please, this sentence already boasting. I know for a fact there are lots of boastings among the Jews, trying to outdo each other as in lavish Bar Mitzvahs and weddings; “my son the doctor, my son the lawyer, my son the banker.””</p>
<p>We did not do a lavish bat mitzvah for our daughter, and we dislike such events - we feel the bar/bat Mitzvah should be a primarily spiritual occasion. </p>
<p>And as for boasting about “my son the doctor” that itself is a stereotype, an old, trope from stand up comedy. Phillip Roth joked about it over 40 years ago. If anyone is still doign it today, I would consider it neither polite, nor prudent.</p>
<p>I would consider it particularly imprudent done in public though, among non-members of the group. Like boasting in general. And even more so on the pages of the WSJ.</p>
<p>"There are more barriers for Asians in the workplace now than for Jews last century because many Jews were able to change their last names to hide their identity. Asians obviously cannot be mistaken for white. "</p>
<p>Like you, I am a Chinese mother, born in Manila from Chinese parents like your parents, but unlike you, I vowed to be a different Chinese mother, and encouraged my daughter to enjoy all the activities you prohibited. And still, she scored 2340 on the SAT, 60 points off perfect, and got accepted by Harvard, Princeton and Yale.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see if your methods can produce the same results.</p>
<p>From an interview with Ms. Chua in sfgate, an online news source, in which she decries the sensationalist tone of the WSJ article:</p>
<p>“…But the worst thing was, they didn’t even hint that the book is about a journey, and that the person at beginning of the book is different from the person at the end – that I get my comeuppance and retreat from this very strict Chinese parenting model.”</p>
<p>This article on the blog Jezebel was, IMHO, one of the best I’ve seen related to “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother”. Nuanced, thoughtful, with both honesty and compassion. I recommend everyone here read it. [“Tiger</a> Mothers” Aren’t The Whole Story](<a href=“"Tiger Mothers" Aren't The Whole Story”>"Tiger Mothers" Aren't The Whole Story)</p>
<p>“Asians obviously cannot be mistaken for white.”</p>
<p>No but you could go for Native American if you change your name to something like Dogeagle. Or Siberian. I know I’m mistaken for Chinese and Vietnamese all the time, and uh… I’m totally not. I have a white last name which leads to tiresome conversations.</p>
<p>I’m not suggesting by any stretch of the imagination that this actually be done–it makes me sick to think of all the Jewish families that felt that for their children’s well-being or survival they had to hide their ancestry and religion–I’m just saying, really.</p>
<p>You just don’t know what it’s like to be in someone else’s shoes.</p>
<p>You are so correct. Not only do they castigate the author, they castigate Asians as a whole.
It’s been discussed here;it’s a ploy to create sensationalism, to sell the book. </p>
<p>However, it has brought to the forefront the public’s negative stereotypes and racist attitudes of Asians.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. That’s how I feel about the Madoff incident.</p>
<p>As one of the few who did read the whole book …</p>
<p>“…But the worst thing was, they didn’t even hint that the book is about a journey, and that the person at beginning of the book is different from the person at the end – that I get my comeuppance and retreat from this very strict Chinese parenting model.”</p>
<p>To some extent, she did get her comeuppance and retreat, but she’s pretty subtle about it in the book. She doesn’t really exhibit a lot of regret over the things she did or say that she wouldn’t do them again. It’s more of a journey than the WSJ article portrays, but it’s probably less of a journey than most (Western) readers would want to see to feel good about it.</p>
<p>A number of years ago, when Eric Liang’s UTube video about a “crazy Asian mother” went viral, my son’s Asian friends all thought it was hysterical because it was so close to the truth. In our community I have witnessed parenting behavior similar to Chua’s–not only from Chinese parents, but also from Indian parents. So I’m getting a little tired of the assertion that her article or book is just one big joke and we white people are too racist or too stupid to understand that it doesn’t really reflect reality. It may not perfectly and universally reflect reality, but it wasn’t randomly pulled out of thin air either. </p>
<p>I’ll never forget the Asian classmate of my son’s who was forced to stay home from school and stay in her house for one week straight to study for her SAT’s, because she hadn’t done as well as her parents expected on the PSAT. Each of my children in turn have come home upset after seeing their classmates crying hysterically over a bad test grade because these friends said their parents would now beat them because of it. Counter to the stereotype, my kids have been on sports teams (not swimming or tennis) with a few Chinese kids. Although the kids were allowed to be on the team, they were never permitted to attend team social events like pasta parties and T-shirt making gatherings. Lastly, I’ve personally witnessed a Chinese mother make her child quit the school play because the child hadn’t gotten a good enough part. </p>
<p>Now, I can recount many horror stories about non-Asian (white American) parents that are as bad or much worse. But none of them are similar in kind to the tales above. Americans tend to mistreat their kids in different ways.</p>
<p>“So I’m getting a little tired of the assertion that her article or book is just one big joke”</p>
<p>All good jokes are at least partly rooted in reality, or they would not be funny. Nonetheless, the degree of exageration involved makes them less than useful as social documentation.</p>
<p>Portnoy’s Complaint was also partly rooted in reality. But I would hate to have someone treat it as a social document on the American Jewish family in the 1940’s. </p>
<p>Some of these issues may be real. I have not read it, but from what I can gather, Chua’s book is not something that will shed real light on these issues.</p>
<p>" Although the kids were allowed to be on the team, they were never permitted to attend team social events like pasta parties and T-shirt making gatherings."</p>
<p>My daughter was on Color Guard with some Chinese girls (also Koreans). IIRC, they did attend social events as much as the other kids did. </p>
<p>Um, no, I really do know that. My mom micromanaged my playing the cello, to the point where I truly hated playing the instrument and wished that I could be like my friends, who didn’t have parents constantly pushing them to do their best, and instead played video games and were always on the computer. I SERIOUSLY hated the idea of picking up the cello when I was around 7, but my mom made me. So you’re wrong. Please don’t make inaccurate assumptions.</p>
<p>I think the joke is not that such parenting exists, but that someone like Chua would still be defending it. I haven’t read the book, but I’ve now seen a number of interviews with her and she doesn’t have much credibility. Although “no play dates” were part of her mantra, she says 'i wasn’t really like that - my kids had play dates." Uberstrict parenting exists, and maybe some of it has merits, but Chua is just being sensationalist and trying to make a buck.</p>
<p>My kids went to an 80% Asian high school, and I think a good number of their classmates had stricter parenting that I could conceive of, and believe me, we had a hell of an orchestra. But the thing is, although almost all those kids aimed for HYP almost none made it, and many couldn’t make it to the lower ranks. I think Chua’s family, with their impressive achievements, are by the far the exception rather than the rule. Most of the kids who are pushed and pushed still aren’t brilliant and arent music prodigies and therefore they think of themselves as failures. I see that all the time. If you buy the idea that Chinese kids achieve because Chinese parents are strict I imagine you don’t know that many Chinese kids. Most of the Chinese kids I know, as are most of the other kids, are average. The Chinese kids just feel worse about it.</p>
<p>In the same vein, it’s important to realize that the overwhelming majority of children are, by nature, not that smart and will not make choices that benefit them in the long run - which is why strict parenting is often needed.</p>
<p>Just offer a well known person as a counter example: Pianist Lang Lang is a product of a Tiger father. He seems to be well liked and super successful.</p>
<p>jonri - thank-you for the warning. I have been in the busines for over 25 years, had the regulations hammered into my head by my firm´s compliance department. Before I exercised my options, I also had to get the approval from my firm. No, it wasn´t a public company.</p>
<p>CountingDown - While working for this guy, we discussed often of Jewish traditions and various holidays, so I knew why he didn´t shake my hand. We had many debates about what people could or could not do on Sabbath. In turn, he learned a lot about Chinese traditions. We used to go for Kosher Chinese food, and I always asked if we could have pork.</p>
<p>BBD, our family was discussing the WSJ article last weekend during dinner. I grabbed a copy of “Portnoy’s Complaint” and read this immortal excerpt aloud to the two girls:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>:D Marc Kugel, that slays me every time I read it. I wonder if Ms. Chua has read Portnoy. </p>
I don’t have any direct experience about “Asian” parenting and repeatedly posted int his thread that I thought Chua was promoting a stereotype that wasn’t consistent with my exposure to Chinese-Americans. So I can only speak of my experience as a Jew, without any comparing or contrasting. </p>
<p>The issue was raised because someone posted stats about the number of Jews at Harvard. </p>
<p>Obviously, I know many Jewish doctors, lawyers & businesspeople – my family is full of them – but I’ve never met anyone who had an upbringing remotely similar to what Amy Chua described in her family. I think most Jews I know were simply raised with the assumption that they would do well in school, and that there wasn’t all that much the parents had to do to make it happen, other than exercise good judgment when choosing a school. Stuff like playing a musical instrument was optional, and undertaken mostly for fun – neither my mom nor I wanted to waste our money on music lessons if the kid didn’t practice, but we pretty much had the view that “practice” meant 45 minutes a day, and that it was mostly the music teacher’s job to enforce it – and that our kids didn’t practice or progress after a given time (such as 6 months or a year), then we’d simply stop the lessons. (So basically I and my daughter followed the same trajectory for music lessons; we came, we dabbled, we quit. The difference is that I only quit one instrument, while my daughter managed to quit three different ones.).</p>
<p>I’m not saying that one style of parenting is better or worse. I do think that it’s quite possible to raise very high achieving kids without much parental meddling or pressure.</p>
