<p>Maybe piano and violin prevent the student from joining a [marching</a> band](<a href=“http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2vx1se96Rk4/RwWOsnkEl1I/AAAAAAAAACE/Nq6-1jpwn7s/IMG_0620.JPG]marching”>http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2vx1se96Rk4/RwWOsnkEl1I/AAAAAAAAACE/Nq6-1jpwn7s/IMG_0620.JPG) if s/he goes to a prestigious university?</p>
![http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2vx1se96Rk4/RwWOsnkEl1I/AAAAAAAAACE/Nq6-1jpwn7s/IMG_0620.JPG]marching](http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2vx1se96Rk4/RwWOsnkEl1I/AAAAAAAAACE/Nq6-1jpwn7s/IMG_0620.JPG%5Dmarching){kind=link}
<p>"Probably because drums, bass, and guitar are considered by some parents to be “not serious” intstruments at best or roads to rebellion, drugs, sex, and <em>gasp</em> rock and roll at worst. "</p>
<p>You should hear my son on the topic <em>lol</em>…actually, if someone thinks the guitar is the road to rebellion, and such, they ought to be made to listen to Segovia playing the Bach Sonatas and Partitas on the guitar…:).</p>
<p>As someone with a bit of knowledge about music, I question the claim that the violin and Piano were chosen for ‘greater options as a hobby’. While it is true, for example, that a typical orchestra, even an amateur one, has a lot more violins then other instruments, it doesn’t ring true. Piano in some ways is more limited from a classical perspective since other then soloing, there isn’t a lot for it to do in that context.</p>
<p>All instruments have potential as a hobby, there are community orchestras and bands, it is possible to do chamber on almost any instrument, or if you are a double bass player to do other forms of music like Jazz (wonder if the mom in this story forbade them from playing that?). Sure, playing piano you can be the life of the party, or accompany someone or doing sonatas and chamber,but it is just another variation. </p>
<p>And if it is about having a fulfilling hobby, why music and not dance or painting or sculpture or tennis or whatever? The fact that they a)had to play an instrument and b) it had to be the piano or violin makes me think it is a lot more then a potential future hobby. One thing that made me question that was the fact that this wasn’t just for pleasure, that along with learning the piano, the girl got involved in the competition circuit, which is a totally different beast. If it is to be for a lifelong hobby, then what does winning competitions have to do with that? On the other hand, kids who apply to colleges with that kind of music ‘hashmark’ put them on their CV, I guarantee you that, because that is commonly believed to make them “more attractive”, least from my experience with that.</p>
<p>Oldfort… I understood the original post. I was just commenting on my own take. The little smiley-winky face was meant to signal “humor”, since I already know that folks on CC have a hard time figuring out when something is a joke.</p>
<p>I personally dislike stereotypical Asian parenting. Being a very free spirit myself, I believe that children and teenagers should choose their own hobbies and activities as they please. As far as school goes, a parent should definitely encourage his or her children to do their best, but realize that everybody has their own comfortable pace, and sometimes perfect grades and an absolute top college should not be everyone’s desire.
All I know is that I’m glad I didn’t have Asian parents who chided me for getting an A-, because I definitely would have gotten kicked out of the house. Call me disrespectful and rebellious.</p>
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<p>I do not specifically recall her stating her motivations for getting them into music, other than something about this is what Chinese mothers do. I find it too hard to believe that you would require your kids to practice every single day of their lives- even when sick, or hours after surgery, or even when on vacation in foreign countries- if this was for a nice adult hobby. i find it hard to believe you would expend your retirement account, or drive your whole family, and pay people to go with you, 18 hours there and back on a weekend just to visit a potential superstar coach. For a hobby. Not to mention, the heart wrenching battles, screaming matches and tears through all the practice…just to have a hobby you enjoy. I don’t buy it.</p>
<p>My sense was her concept was this kind of music training was critical to one’s childhood and development, and if they were going to do something they had to be THE BEST or they ought to not do it at all. Though the option not to do it was not there either. It was do it, and do it extremely well, with as many waking hours as you can fit in. </p>
<p>She might not have written about this all being for college resumes, but she was extremely aware of - and was very very stressed about- the importance of pre-college Julliard for future university applications, and Lulu getting into it. I’m sure the whole college thing was never far from her mind.</p>
<p>Both of our girls have classical training of music and dance. We were lucky we found a very good ballet teacher for them when they were young. We thought they would do a little bit of ballet, maybe some jazz or even tap. Even though their studio offered a wide of dance styles, their ballet teacher insisted on not allowing any student to learn other form of dance until they were proficient in ballet. She used to say all dance hav some root in ballet.</p>
<p>D1 was selected to participate in our state governor school for dance. They selected 12 students from the whole state. They had to do ballet, jazz, modern, even hip hop . D1, who had never done hip hop before, was able to pick it up very quickly. Since then, she has done many other types of dance, and she always leverage off her strong ballet training.</p>
<p>D2 started with playing Russian classicals on piano and violin. But she loves fiddling on violin, and pop/country music on piano.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster who said without mastering the basic, there is no ground to be creative.</p>
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<p>I disagree with her too. But I believe she even knows this is not true as well. Why? As she tells us, her husband had this kind of carefree childhood, with a free-spirit artistic mother (who absolutely disagreed with Ms. Chua’s parenting style). her husband was a drama student at Julliard and eventually went to Harvard Law and now is a Yale law professor and novelist. His parents didn’t need to force him and he turned out just find. Like the vast majority of successful others do.</p>
<p>I think analyzing the book and/or Chua’s parenting is beyond the point. Chua is a law professor with no expertise in parenting outside of her own. Her other two books are completely unrelated. Judging by the extreme, almost satirical nature of her book, I can think of no reason for her writing it accept to make money by stirring up controversy (aka like a reality show book style). I personally don’t even think she is as strict as she states in her book. Maybe she’s close, but the few parents Ive known that had Chua’s percieved parenting style were nothing like Chua. Ive known about 10 kids with parents similar to Chua (8 were Korean, 2 were Indian I believe). All of them only hung out with other Asians (chua married a jewish guy) and the mothers were all traditional housewives. Also, all of their parents expected them to go into math/science fields. Chua is a law professor. Even if she really is as strict as she states in her book, she has no reason to write the book except to make $$$, so I think the analyzation of her parenting is really a mute point. Its like trying to analyze why Michael bay blows up so many things in Transfomers. Its just a way to make money.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Golfer3.</p>
<p>I have wondered about the violin/piano issue with asian parents. My DD is 8th chair violin in her school orchestra, out of about 20 first violins. She is the only non asian. We joke in our house there must be 12 kids getting grounded once their parents find out they were seated behind a white kid. Anyway, they never play viola, and a few play cello. Some of these kids are amazing musicians, by high school standards. But DD thinks a lot of them are playing because they have no choice. I always assumed the choice of instrument had something to do with solo opportunities.</p>
<p>From the book: “I wanted her to be well-rounded and to have hobbies and activities. Not just any activity, like “crafts”, which can lead nowhere - or even worse, playing the drums, which leads to drugs - but rather a hobby that was meaningful and highly difficult with the potential for depth and virtuosity.”</p>
<p>My guess is that Ms Chua started with that intention, and then got carried away when it became apparent that her daughter was talented and could get access to some very effective teachers and go quite far if she wanted.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with Golfer3. It isn’t intended as a how-to-book and no one is proclaiming her an expert (includnig herself). It’s simply a thought provoking memoir of someone’s life. It’s an interesting read. </p>
<p>Any book that generates a lot of discussion and controversy is a good book. In this case it gets us talking, debating and thinking about our own and other’s parenting styles. Who cares what her motive was? And if we dismiss all authors who were motivated by an advancement from a publisher, there would not be too many books to read. </p>
<p>Moreover, even if were fiction, the prototype she puts forth has a basis in reality, and it is that prototype that is thought provoking and debatable.</p>
<p>And later on in the story:</p>
<p>“But I could make sure that Sophia and Lulu were deeper and more cultivated than my parents and I were. Classical music was the opposite of decline, the opposite of laziness, vulgarity, and spoiledness. It was a way for my children to achieve something I hadn’t.”</p>
<p>Frazzled, you may be right. I would add that I think she- and some others - have a narrow view of what is highly difficult, and has the potential for virtuosity. So much of what i would think should be driven by joy or personal talent, seems driven by social pressure. She truly felt there are just some ‘hobbies’ that count/are right (as defined by the culture) and the rest are not socially acceptable. Even then, only some instruments, some subjects, some careers. I find that the hardest to get my head around (from someone worldly and who grew up in the US). </p>
<p>Relatedly, I found it quite interesting how she was originally pursuing applied math, to please her father (I guess it was one of the ‘acceptable subjects’). And only when HE decided she wasn’t good enough, she was released from it…then pursued economics (not because she loved it or found it interesting, but because it was close to being acceptable). Even with law, she makes it clear she was never really into it…not like her husband was (who was always allowed to pursue what he wanted to pursue). </p>
<p>I just find it fascinating that she has these insights, then ignores them when it comes to her own children. Or maybe she does and I have not gotten there in the book yet (another 25% to go).</p>
<p>Add after cross post: Yeah she says that about classical music but she herself took piano, so I’d not sure I followed. I’d love to know why she dropped it and how that came to be. Does she feel she was a failure at it because she wasn’t pushed enough and now needs to complete the journey she failed through her kids?</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, not true. We were also in Fairfax County (but not the nice part), and I can’t count how many stupid artsy-fartsy assignments he had in middle school. They had to keep a journal in social studies–for each topic, they had to glue a handout from the teacher on one side of the page, and draw an illustration of the topic on the facing page. S lost points because he didn’t color it in.</p>
<p>I complained about it at parent-teacher conferences, but didn’t get anywhere. Maybe I should have had them add “no drawing outside of art class” to his IEP!</p>
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<p>Ok…where did she get the idea that drums == drugs?!! Also, if she really believes that playing violin and piano are good ways to discourage drug use…<em>chuckle</em>…I should introduce her to some conservatory-trained musician friends of mine…all stellar classically trained graduates from conservatories like Oberlin, Eastman, and Julliard. </p>
<p>That is…if she doesn’t pass out from the overpowering smell of burnt herbs*…</p>
<ul>
<li>I don’t partake and they respect my decision to not participate in their vices.<br></li>
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<p>In short, she’s like many parents who forced classical music on kids as a way to conform to what they believe are the markers of the Western upper/upper-middle class establishment. </p>
<p>Just like the stuck up snobby older well-off relatives and high school classmates whose rank snobbery and narrowmindedness drove me to regard classical music as the genre of conformist narrow-minded stuck-up snobs during my high school years. </p>
<p>I’ve always wondered where they get such cockamamie ideas…especially when most of the upper/upper-middle class American kids and families I’ve encountered could care less one way or the other at best…and are often turned off by the blitheringly obvious status-seeking/social climbing motives behind the “classical music act”.</p>
<p>While we are at forcing kids to do something they don’t want to do, here’s a mother forcing her 5 year old get eye brows waxed,</p>
<p>[‘Toddlers</a> & Tiaras’ Mom Forces 5-Year-Old To Get Eyebrows Waxed (VIDEO)](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>'Toddlers & Tiaras' Mom Forces 5-Year-Old To Get Eyebrows Waxed (VIDEO) | HuffPost Life)</p>
<p>From post #358 by Pizzagirl:</p>
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<p>Chinese people have very set ideas about the proper age to learn a musical instrument. If you don’t learn an instrument when you are young, then you’ve lost your chance. </p>
<p>I’m the product of a first generation Chinese immigrant mother who insisted that each of her three daughters take piano lessons. Growing up in post-World War II in Taiwan, she never had the chance to take piano lesson on a regular basis and there were no pianos near her to practice on. I learned to play classical piano decently but by high school, I realized I was only learning piano because Mom wanted me to. To complicate matters, I had fallen in love with the sound of the violin as well. </p>
<p>So I did something very “un-Chinese” when I quit piano at age 16. Four years later, I demanded to borrow my sister’s violin in my sophomore year in college and took up the violin. I’m in mid-forties now, and still take lessons (now on viola) even though my mom thinks I’m crazy for doing so. (I also have a significant hearing loss, but that’s another story . . . )</p>
<p>As much as I wish my own girls share my passion for playing music and participate in music festivals and competitions, I have decided I am not going to live vicariously through them. I may have lost my chance to participate in musical festivals though . . .</p>
<p>SIGH. I haven’t read the book and based on the snippets I’ve read, I’m unlikely to do so. I wouldn’t nominate Amy Chua as “Mother of the Year.” Having said that, this thread is starting to make me ill. </p>
<p>In some ways, I’m well -educated. When it comes to the arts, I’m not. I’m not proud of that. I see it as a major gap in my education. I don’t think people who want their children exposed to classical music are social climbers. I view them as good parents. </p>
<p>I remember a dad who used to post here who said he’d never read any classical literature, history, or philosophy and he didn’t think he was missing anything. I think he was. So is the mother who says “What’s the big deal about classical music?” </p>
<p>I have a married “kid,” as some of you know. My kid’s spouse knows a lot about classical music. Spouse really, truly enjoys classical music. It has nothing to do with the way spouse earns a living; it’s pure pleasure. </p>
<p>My kid knows a lot more about classical music than I do…but is not in the same league as spouse. Given a choice, the dial on the car radio is NOT set to a classical music station when my kid is alone in the car. </p>
<p>On the flip side, my kid will make a reference to a literary classic, it will sail over spouse’s head. My kid will sit there in disbelief saying…"This isn’t a joke? You’ve never read {fill in classic’s name here}? " </p>
<p>Yes, there really IS a difference between the most recent Harlequin Romance and Madame Bovary. Don’t misunderstand. I’m not criticizing the person who reads Harlequin Romances. Most people in the US don’t read anything for pleasure. Most people can’t sight read music either. But…just as there is a difference between a Harlequin Romance and Madame Bovary, there’s a difference between Beethoven and rap. </p>
<p>So, spouse educates kid re classical music. Kid educates spouse re literature. I hope that when and if they have a child…that child will turn to grandma (me) for books and my kid’s spouse’s parents for music. </p>
<p>Anyone read “Room?” The kid in that story didn’t think he was missing anything.</p>
<p>Ayelet Waldman’s take from Saturday’s WSJ:</p>
<p>[Ayelet</a> Waldman on Amy Chua’s ‘Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ - WSJ.com](<a href=“Ayelet Waldman on Amy Chua's 'Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother' - WSJ”>Ayelet Waldman on Amy Chua's 'Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother' - WSJ)</p>