<p>I agree with the general consensus that School #1 (Division 1, Jesuit = BC?) does not seem to be worth the huge amount of extra money, so have your S start the conversation by telling H that, even though it’s his first choice, he’s already removed that school from consideration for monetary reasons and it’s now down to Schools #2 and #3. (This will show H that your son is being very mature and responsible.)</p>
<p>Next he needs to show some true differences between the remaining 2 schools for the cost-benefit analysis to show why School #2 is the “best value” of the remaining choices. Ideally, there would be at least a few quantitative measures --like comparable GPA/SAT scores for incoming freshmen classes to show how your S might not be as challenged at School #3, or the % of seniors at each school getting jobs or going to graduate school, or the total number of math courses offered at each school, etc. – to show what the extra money would be paying for. Also add in any other factors you and your S can come up with – opportunity to participate in sports at School #2, etc.</p>
<p>Whatever you do, don’t disparage School #3’s “plain vanilla” campus or “OK” teachers, as this will probably not carry much weight with someone who attended CC. Instead, focus on the positives of School #2 – it has “X” and “Y” and… Your S should focus on those opportunities and interests that mean the most to him.</p>
<p>Since you can afford School #2 without great sacrifice, it seems like forcing your son to attend School #3 will just make him miserable for 4 years. So now you need to bring H around to that line of thinking. Good luck!</p>
<p>School #1 is Xavier - the school which he has ALWAYS talked about going to - but in reality now, he sees may not be the wisest option because it would mean at this point, a stretch. As I said, I did appeal for him, we will see if there is any other offer in a couple of weeks.</p>
<p>You know, how kids sometimes get caught up in the “status” of schools? The opportunity for them to say, “well, I am going to Notre Dame, etc.” (ha - my son did apply and was rejected there!). I sometimes think my H wants the bragging rights to say “yep, S is going to X-school on a full tuition scholarship”. Just as I told my son about the “status” school, the bragging rights are temporary - a good education and happiness where you have to LIVE for 4 years is worth investing. </p>
<p>S is going to visit a coach at school #2 on Thursday - I have intentionally backed off and put it in my H hands to take him - I’m hoping it works into his schedule. I think if H can see the school again he will look at it differently, now a year later than when we first visited (S and I have been back 2 additional times) and see the fit. And perhaps, encourage them both to take a couple of hours to drive up to #3 to compare if H needs to see that again.</p>
<p>There are plenty of people who would disagree with me on this and I respect their arguments. But I can’t help but feel that if a school is offering my child a full ride, it’s because he’s way better academically than who they normally attract, and/or he offers some attribute (racial diversity, for example) the school doesn’t have but wants or needs. Therefore, you have to decide if the disadvantages of being the missing link for that institution outweigh the possible advantages to your S. Will your S be stuck with weak students as peers such that college will be for him like high school all over again? Will he lose intellectual motivation/stimulation from being surrounded by a less academic peer group? Or will he catch the eye of professors and get fabulous research opportunities perhaps, and be able to earn a great GPA which will set him up nicely for grad school? As for the second attribute scenario, let’s say the school wants him because he’s a terrific athlete and would be a tremendous asset for their team. What does your S give up in terms of opportunity and personal development being the best kid on the team as a freshman? Or perhaps he was the drum major of a nationally ranked marching band and the college is looking to improve their marching band. Great for them, but would your kid who loves that activity be saddled for 4 years with a crappy band when he’s used to much better? Or let’s say the school is 98% white, and your S is black or Hispanic and so they want him to enroll. What benefit does your S get out of being the school’s “diversity”? What would be the social disadvantages for him?</p>
<p>I spoke with a mom a few years ago whose oldest daughter had recently graduated from Northwestern and she told me they spent $120,000 on her education only to learn that her major, journalism, was one of the lowest paying professions out there. Her two younger children will attend the state’s flagship pubic and use Bright Futures scholarship money.</p>
<p>^^ Of which we take into consideration. If he sticks with the plan and becomes a math teacher (a great one ) he won’t be making mega bucks so we do want any loans to be “reasonable”. </p>
<p>I think he will still be more academically at the top at school #2 than #1 , but yes, at #3 he will grades/test-wise be the tippy top.</p>
<p>I’ve also twice now seen girls who were seriously pre-med head off to ivy league schools (tippy top Ivies) and get discouraged with the competitiveness of premed at those schools and decide against pre-med. Meanwhile, several other kids who were really strong students but who were admitted to top colleges without enough financial aid ended up at second tier private schools with full ride or full tuition scholarships, and are now heading off to med school. It could be random, but it could also be that getting the really high grades and the opportunities for close working relationships with faculty is easier when you’re the big fish in a smaller pond. I’d love to see a real analysis of this at some point.</p>
<p>We’ve talked about this before in the forums. Some kids really do well and soar when “leading the pack” and others need the challenge of being in the middle of the pack to the back of the pack to motivate their success. My S1 does better leading the pack and my S2 does better in the middle of the pack. S2 would do “better” at a school that challenges him slightly while my S1 would give up in a heartbeat in too challenging an environment. That is a consideration also, what “type” of academic competitior a student is.</p>
<p>They only learned that about journalism AFTER spending all that money on her education? I could have told them for free aeons ago! And, no, I’m not a journalist!</p>
<p>The way I would look at it is which school would provide your son with the best next step (or prepare him for the next stage of his life) - maybe it’s a graduate school or a job. You have the cost now, you should look at the biggest benefit, see if they are the same. </p>
<p>What’s the point of going to the cheapest school if it’s not going to do anything for your son. It’s no different than if someone were to give me a free shirt that wouldn’t look good on me, what good would it do for me?</p>
<h1>3 is just a bad choice - even with the free ride. It offers nothing but the money. I’m a big fan of big scholarships, but there’s no way I would make my kids go to a school that offered **nothing **that they wanted except for a free ride. My kids did accept big scholarships, but they were to a school that they wanted to go to.</h1>
<p>School #1 would be a fine choice if your son would commit to the TEACH grant. (Is it Marquette?)</p>
<p>If necessary, your son could take the full Stafford ($5500, 6500, 7500, 7500) to further reduce your cost for school #2). </p>
<p>BTW…have you asked school #1 and school #2 if they will increase their aid in light of school #3’s offer?</p>
<p>Excellent point Momofthree…my S must be in a challenging environment with strong students or he becomes bored and unmotivated. The college where he would have been one of the strongest students didn’t interest him at all when he visited, but this was more because of his impressions. But I knew he would probably be on the stronger end of the student population, so I was fine with his decision, just surprised at how strong a negative reaction he had to it.</p>
<p>Re: the journalism major, I have a good friend who majored in journalism back in the day and she’s doing just fine in the marketing world.</p>
<p>*S #1 will graduate from college next month. I still regret his decision (H allowed it, I argued against it) to turn down full (NMF) rides for a small private school with no aid. This involved huge sacrifices for our whole family. Kid #2 is also in college this year–she only applied to schools where she could get merit aid, but we did let her choose a higher-priced school that was a better fit. I already told kid #3 (likely NMF) that his college choices will be limited to schools where he can get a full ride. (Kids 4-7 will have similar $ restrictions). Think very carefully about the $$, the lifestyle changes involved, and the rest of your family if you have younger kids. We’re not making the same mistake again. *</p>
<p>Very good advice. </p>
<p>Thankfully, choice #2 is not a situation like you’ve been through with your son, but it sounds like choice #1 might be.</p>
<p>It actually offers a lot for the student – it offers a degree in teaching and the opportunity to graduate without debt. It’s not like the school didn’t offer the major he wanted.</p>
<p>The information the OP posted (campus buildings older and too close to home) aren’t related to the quality of education that he will receive there. She did say that he didn’t get a good feeling from the teaching department and campus, and I am a big believer in going to school that you would enjoy. </p>
<p>However, let’s not get “outdated dorms and wrong number of miles from home” confused with “a school that offers nothing.”</p>
<p>Have asked #1, they will not compare “offers” but will evaluate our “appeal”.</p>
<p>Have not asked #2 yet - we just got their offer on Friday.</p>
<p>The ONE $$ advantage of school #1 is that the bulk of their offer was merit - not grant, or work study (just loans) - so, as long as he keeps his grade point, which I would hope be the case, that money is sort of “guaranteed” as opposed to sometimes grants, work study which may not. I would love to say “yes” you can go to #1, but unless they come back with more $$$ that is sketchy.</p>
<p>I look at college as an investment in the student, not an investment in the degree. #3 sounds so completely uninspiring that I don’t see the student maturing into the same adult he would in a more invigorating environment. This is important to me as a parent.</p>
<p>I agree with Mythmom. A big part of college is meeting “your people” and challenging oneself. Choice #3 sounds like less of a challenge than high school was for your son.</p>
<p>I can’t say it’s less of a challenge - it is college, but it doesn’t offer much more than high school. In fact it’s about the size of his high school - 1400. </p>
<p>Going for a walk now with another mom friend who is sort of in the same dilemma! Maybe we’ll solve our probs as we walk! Anyone want to come?!!! :)</p>
<p>I’d choose door #2 in your shoes. Perhaps the coach at #2 can flatter your H’s pride in his son’s athletic talents and sway him when he visits?</p>
<p>We all have to weigh costs against quality/benefits, as others have said above. If you will be paying less than your EFC your H has no serious grounds for complaint, IMO. Your son is val? – isn’t he entitled to some reward for all that hard work? He is not demanding his first choice, and IMO his second option will please him and should work well for him.</p>
<p>Do keep us posted on the final decision.</p>
<p>P.S. Re journalism, while *in general *it is not a high paying field, I have a close relative in the field who ears a healthy six-figure salary and loves his work. There will always be some spots at the top for the truly ambitious and talented.</p>
) he won’t be making mega bucks so we do want any loans to be “reasonable”. </p>