<p>marite: I guess. First child and probably not a lot of prior research.</p>
<p>I think your son should go back to all 3 schools on the acceptance days and arrange to sit in one or two Math classes to get a better sense of the academic fit. Your family might want to consider a compromise of the scholarship school Freshman year and then transfer.
Another possibility is taking the scholarship offer and try to negotiate it with the other schools. Your husband needs to feel comfortable with helping to pay the bills. Also, see if your son really wants loans to go to the fancier schools. I think revisiting these schools, stay overnight if possible to see the social fit in the dorms, etc. will give you more data to make a decision.</p>
<p>I think “free” schools are viewed as not very good by many kids…and even parents. Hey, if it’s free how CAN it be good. IMO, there’s tendency to view it under this lens no matter what the real quality is. </p>
<p>So…my only advice is to be aware of this bias as you take another look at these three schools. I agree with the advice to really check each school out, attend classes, get a feel. Small isn’t necessarily bad. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s like high school. My H went to a really small school and loved it…even paid a lot for it :). BTW, don’t they have SOME sports opportunities available at door #3?</p>
<p>We made a decision to turn down a full ride. My husband, my dd and I were in agreement, though, which made it very easy! There were many reasons…</p>
<p>We never assumed that free was best.
We had never told my dd that the decision was going to be made only on price. I respect people who need to do that, and make it clear from the beginning that price is the main criteria. I just think that you can’t spring that on a kid at the end of the process.
We had started by asking her what kind of school she wanted, and the more expensive school had what she wanted-location, size, activities, major, “feel” etc.
She wanted to be with peers, not an academic standout.
We wanted to be somewhat fair in what we were able to do for dd1 and dd2.
This sounds weird maybe, but I considered what the school spent per student. She chose a school which is expensive, but is also a school that spends much much more per student than the full cost of attendance, because of their endowment funds. So, we consider it both expensive, and an excellent value for the quality of what she is getting.</p>
<p>I hope this is helpful to you. It is more rational than my first idea which was to ask your husband if he would prefer to wear clothes of the wrong size and style which were free, or to spend a little bit to get things that fit and that he likes!</p>
<p>Seems like OP’s S’s choice #2 is also the fairest, given that older sister went to a “perfect fit” school which cost a tad more. By comparison, isn’t S entitled to a comparable experience? Especially when S is val and that experience seems financially feasible?</p>
<p>We’ve been at all 3 schools at least 3 times. I think we know now what they have to offer. Choice #3 was actually a school that D1 looked at when she was college searching. I remember saying then - because of all the changes they said they were going to make - that it might be a good school for S to look at when the time came. Now, 3 years later, we don’t really see that many changes were made. </p>
<p>At this point I would never consider a plan that called for him to go one place for one year and then switch - I wouldn’t PLAN for that. </p>
<p>Also, as I remind my husband, it’s not full-ride, it’s full-tuition. It makes a difference. :)</p>
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<p>[College</a> Results Online](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1b.aspx?institutionid=204796]College”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1b.aspx?institutionid=204796)</p>
<p>Look at the last column on the right, and you can view student related expenditures.</p>
<p>*I think your son should go back to all 3 schools on the acceptance days and arrange to sit in one or two Math classes to get a better sense of the academic fit. *</p>
<p>Great idea…but can I add a tip that might help? Have the DAD go with the student for these days (or another day of sitting in on classes). Once dad sees first hand the difference in the schools, he may give up the fight. :)</p>
<p>Oh my gosh, I have never seen the actual numbers for the amounts each school spends per student. I just knew the school we chose had a reputation for spending more per student than the actual cost.</p>
<p>Would you believe that a school which offered full ride to NMF spends $9,459 per student per year on Student expenditures, and the school we chose spends $98, 645?</p>
<p>Thank you, northeastmom for that resource.</p>
<p>Abasket: if your husband likes statistics and cool charts and looking at value-plug your 3 colleges into the “Compare Colleges” section on the site that northeastmom linked and see what it says.</p>
<p>50isthenew40, no need to thank…I just passed forward info I learned on cc from another poster (sorry that I don’t recall who posted this info) last week! 98,000? that is amazing! I never noticed numbers that high, but I also did not plug in first tiers/Ivy schools.</p>
<p>Yes, very cool chart. Just fun to see. I did plug in the 3 colleges - the amount spend per student actually isn’t hugely different. 13,800 at the #1 choice, 12,000ish at the 2nd and 3rd choice. </p>
<p>As I said, I am hoping husband will go w/S to the visit this week. I am going out of town this weekend (yeah!) and I may encourage them to take trip on their own to #3 to compare after seeing #2 on Thursday.</p>
<p>I notice UVA spends $15,261 versus $27,955 at UNC-CH, which many would consider to be equivalent schools. Differences in the student/faculty ratio are not enough to drive that cost differential. Perhaps professors are paid more at UNC-CH. If so, that begs the question of why. Maybe more professors at UNC-CH are nearing retirement age. If every other statistic about these two schools were identical, would the higher expenses at UNC-CH indicate they are offering students better value? I would be hesitant to reach that conclusion without a lot more information.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst, I was really thinking about that. A lot more info is absolutely needed. I was thinking, for example, about money per student going into sport teams/facilities. If a student does not participate in sports (either playing or interested in watching their college play), it does not mean a better educational experience for that particular student. Does this figure include sport facilities? Athletic scholarships? It seems to include “scholarships”. Does it include financial aid? If your student is not getting FA, or a merit award, does this mean that a lot less money is being spent on your student than what is listed?</p>
<p>Here is what it says on the site:</p>
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<p>abasket, I feel for you! It’s so hard to decide what to do. A full tuition scholarship is so hard not to consider. Esp. for someone who is considering teaching, coming out with no loans is very hard not to consider.</p>
<p>Although it is a hard economy I wonder if you could find that placement rates for teachers at each school. Is one school better at placing their teachers than another? Does one school have a better reputation in their school of education?</p>
<p>We had sort of the same problem as you. My D was offered scholarships amounting to full tuition at an amazing school. It was a great school but we felt that it was weak in her major and that opportunities for research and internships would be limited. She was accepted to her first choice which is great in her major. My H and my D didn’t even consider the full tuition scholarship. Getting a job is the most important thing esp. in this economy and they felt that it was better to go into a little debt for a more prestigious program.</p>
<p>I have to agree with the poster that said that your D was allowed to go to the school where she was happiest and was the best fit. Your S should have the same choice.</p>
<p>northeastmom, I pulled the audits for UVA and UNC just for fun and think I found the answer to the differential for those two college. The methodology was to divide Instructional expenses, as shown in the audit, by total student FTEs (includes grad students since the audit doesn’t break out expenses by undergrad and grad). I was able to closely back into the numbers used. Both UVA and UNC have large medical schools. UVA, however, breaks out the medical school, showing “patient services” as a separate line item that accounts for more than 40% of total expenses, while UNC incorporates the medical center expenses into the other functional categories. Adjusting for this presentational difference in the audit virtually eliminates the differential between the two schools, which makes sense.</p>
<p>Anyway, my take-away is to be careful reading too much into these kinds of numbers. It would take a lot of work to put all of these schools on an apples to apples comparison basis, not to mention to tease out the factors that actually make a difference to your student.</p>
<p>One tip for discussing this with H: you might want to consistently refer to #2 as the “compromise choice.” In other words, *don’t *take #1 completely off the table when you discuss this with him. This allows him at least a partial “win” by agreeing to #2.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst, this is interesting and really not all that surprising as to the kinds of examples that can create wide swings in the numbers, and have little to do with the undergrad. Thanks for posting this information.</p>
<p>Life is all about choices.</p>
<p>Choosing a more expensive university and taking out loans to pay for it today means better opportunities for the next 4 years (in the eye of the OP), but having to pay back loans will reduce opportunities after graduation, as the graduate will have an additional financial obligation. The graduate will have to consider the loan payback when evaluating job offers, apartments to rent, whether to get a dog, whether to get married, etc.</p>
<p>Choosing a more expensive university today and planning to have the loans forgiven with a TEACH grant means less opportunities the first 5 -10 years out of school because the student will be required to work at a particular set of schools. Those schools may not be located where the student otherwise would want to teach or live.</p>
<p>I graduated with no debt, and put the money that I would have spent on student loans into retirement instead. Today I have a sizeable balance in my retirement account, while a friend of mine still has $10,000 of student debt and no retirement account. This person chose to live with her parents for 5 years out of school because she didn’t feel she could make her debt payments, own a car, and rent an apartment all at the same time.</p>
<p>I vote for school #2. Good aid, manageable EFC and he loves it. Who could ask for more?</p>
<p>I’d also be cautious in believing these numbers – while our state has a standardized chart of accounts for school districts and a required methodology for accounting for expenditures and revenues, I still find lots and lots of goofy results because different districts interpret the rules very differently, and the people who design the rules often don’t really understand certain aspects of how some schools work. One of the reports required schools to calculate average class sizes by subject and grade. Unfortunately, whoever specified that never ran that concept by many high schools, where, for example, math classes are most commonly grouped by ability/subject – AP Calculus AB can (and does) have students from 9th - 12th grade enrolled, and trying to calculate the average class size for 9th grade students in math is a mighty tough proposition. </p>
<p>If there is a huge outlier in some of the schools, I wouldn’t go to town on believing it.</p>