<p>someone deleted my very tongue in cheek post, I have seen a lot worse on this board</p>
<p>Jack-</p>
<p>No Ill stay in NC. My kids will need a cheap safety school if they dont get into W&M. Plus all the UNC grads think I'm a genius.</p>
<p>I bet the UNC grads from the mid to late 70's remember W&M pretty well. W&M upset them in bball when they were one of the top teams. It was supposed to be a breather game for the Heels. I don't remember it very well, but I do think Phil Ford was on the team back then.</p>
<p>Supposedly W&M was undefeated until first semester grades came out, and 2 of the top players flunked out. It was a couple of years before my time there. They finished 16-10</p>
<p>I just looked, UNC was number 2 at the time, Dec 7, 1977, W&M 77 UNC 75. (Of course, things were more normal the next year, when UNC won by 25!)lol</p>
<p>doctorb: It's people like you who move to NC that make me want to leave. I can't imagine anyone thinks you're a "genius," but if you like to think so to compensate for what I'm sure are your (probably obvious) other shortcomings, then go for it. I'm sure they find you quite charming as well. I do find it rather sad that you live in a place you obviously hate, only because you need the validation that (you believe) younger people find you to be a "genius." </p>
<p>W&M is a very nice small public university, well-regarded, in a nice small town full of people all dressed up in colonial gear. I think if the OP wants to go there, he definitely should. I certainly don't think it can hurt him. I only visited there in the 70's, and all I can remember is the large Greek scene and all the partying, but I'm sure it's quite different now.. I bet at this point, they're even teaching their students how to use contractions.</p>
<p>Your family members are only agreeing with you, because they can't stand listening to you. They'll say anything to get you to leave them alone. Get a grip.</p>
<p>Jack- You must come from the Ann Coulter school of logic. In lieu of facts, use insults. Lets call a truce and let this thread get back on track re the differences between two very fine, but different institutions.</p>
<p>In the spirit of Easter I forgive you and ask forgivenes from you.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
<p>The facts were already posted on the other thread. (See warblersrule's post.) By the way, check your spelling of forgiveness. <This is the correct spelling.</p>
<p>Jack, are you really Bill O'Reilly under a pseudonym? lol</p>
<p>You should take a course on logic. I think you have used almost every fallacy of logic in your posts on this thread. Ad hominen (attacking the person, instead of the argument they make) is just one example. </p>
<p>W&M is actually located in a metropolitan area that is the 31st largest in the US. It is not in the center of the area, but is a part of the Norfolk-Va Beach area of close to 2 million people.</p>
<p>Learn a little bit about things before you throw out your opinions.</p>
<p>Wait. Williamsburg is a "metropolitan area?" Ah, Williamsburg is, in fact, a nice small town as I said earlier. Va Beach is simply a beach town. Neither would ever be considered "metropolitian" by any stretch of the imagination. I hate to break it to you, but that's not just my opinion. </p>
<p>This thread is all your's, namtrag. I wouldn't have a conversation with you in real life; I'm certainly not going to lower myself to have one with you here. Good luck. I think you're gonna need it. :)</p>
<p>well jack, I didn't say Williamsburg was a metropolitan area, I said it was a part of a metropolitan area. You obviously know nothing about geography, Va Beach is the largest city in the state of Virginia. The metropolitan area of Nofolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Newport News, Hampton, Suffolk, and Williamsburg comprise almost 2 million people. Like I said, the area is about the 30th largest in the entire country. </p>
<p>Facts are facts, none of the above are my OPINIONS, they are statistics.</p>
<p>I am not a W&M apologist either, it is a fine school, but there are many better ones, but when you state opinions veiled as facts, it just gets my dander up.</p>
<p>BTW I love UNC, it is my favorite basketball team, and has been since I was a kid.</p>
<p>Okay, against my better judgement, here is my statement--one more time:</p>
<p>I said in my earlier post, "Williamsburg is a nice small town . . ." I never said one word about the surrounding areas. Please, please, please try to read and comprehend what I wrote. Williamsburg IS a nice small town; this is not an insult--merely a fact. You twist what I say to make some sort of other point. A person who is going to school in Williamsburg will NOT be living in Virginia Beach. Why bring in other areas to my one point about the town in which the school is actually located? I don't get it. Williamsburg is simply NOT a metropolis. It's a tourist destination; it's historic; it's small; it's lovely (if you like that sort of thing), but it is NOT a metropolis. </p>
<p>I have no idea what Virginia Beach has to do with anything. You brought up VA Beach; I didn't. If you want to consider VA Beach somehow connected to William and Mary, that's great. Again, my simple statement was, "Williamsburg is a nice small town," which it is (population around 11,000). This is not an insult or lie or manipulation of the facts. Perhaps to you, a town that size is a big cosmopolitan city. I guess if you grew up in a town of 300, and you haven't traveled much, then it would seem like a big city to you. By all accounts, however, it is a small town.</p>
<p>Again, though, please don't twist my words into something totally different from what I was simply stating about this one particular town. I said nothing about the surrounding area, only the town itself. Sorry if the fact that the school is located in a small town insults you. Some people would like that aspect of the school.</p>
<p>Whew.</p>
<p>My only point is, that Williamsburg is part of a larger area, being 15-20 minutes to Newport News and 45 mintues to Va Beach and Norfolk. It is not like some colleges that are in a town of 11,000 in the middle of a rural area, hours from the nearest city. There are a lot of cultural activities in the metropolitan area that you can attend, AAA baseball, AHL hockey, concerts, festivals etc. Just wanted to point that kind of thing out, so prospective students would know it was there. I am sorry if I mistook your comments to imply that W&M was in a hick town with nothing to do, but that's how I took it.</p>
<p>The only problem is getting there from Williamsburg!. You can't technincally have a car until you are an upperclassman. I am not sure if UNC is the same way or not.</p>
<p>Sorry Jack!</p>
<p>UNC is a great school, I don't really have anything negative to say about it. W&M is also a great school, so maybe we can agree on that and call a truce.</p>
<p>I don't think it's possible to go wrong by attending either school. A motivated student will do just fine at either one.</p>
<p>Data mostly drawn from USNWR</p>
<p>OBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Undergraduate Enrollment:
U North Carolina: 16,764 W&M: 5594 BC: 9019</p>
<h1>and % of students who are in-state:</h1>
<p>U North Carolina: 13,914 (87%) W&M: 3748 (67%) BC: na</p>
<p>Cost (Tuition & Fees):
U North Carolina: $19,681 (OOS) W&M: $25,048 BC: $33,506</p>
<p>Graduation & Retention Rank
U North Carolina: 32nd W&M: 17th BC: 20th
-% of Students expected to graduate in 6 years:
U North Carolina: 79% W&M: 84% BC: 83%
-% of students who do graduate in 6 years:
U North Carolina: 84% W&M: 91% BC: 91%</p>
<p>Faculty Resources Rank:
U North Carolina: 40th W&M: 45th BC: 72nd
-% of classes with 50+ students
U North Carolina: 11% W&M: 7% BC: 8%
-% of classes with <20 students
U North Carolina: 50% W&M: 47% BC: 38%
-Faculty/student ratio
U North Carolina: 14/1 W&M: 11/1 BC: 13/1</p>
<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
U North Carolina: 35th W&M: 26th BC: 29th
-Average SAT/ACT:
U North Carolina: 1210-1390 W&M: 1260-1440 BC: 1250-1420<br>
-% of students ranking in top 10% of high school class
U North Carolina: 74% W&M: 79% BC: 75%
-% acceptance rate
U North Carolina: 37% W&M: 31% BC: 31%</p>
<h1>of 1500 scorers enrolled:</h1>
<p>U North Carolina: 892 (5%) W&M: 711 (13%) BC: 893 (10%) </p>
<p>Financial Resources Rank:
U North Carolina: 34th W&M: 111th BC: 70th </p>
<p>Alumni Giving % and Rank:
U North Carolina: 23% (45th) W&M: 25% (33rd) BC: 25% (37th)</p>
<p>SUBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Peer Assessment:
U North Carolina: 4.2 W&M: 3.8 BC: 3.6</p>
<p>Comments from another thread comparing U North Carolina and W&M:
While both are public schools. W&M is only 1/3 the size. However, the resources dedicated by the schools and the states (especially those for students) are higher at U North Carolina. The student profile at W&M is marginally stronger than U North Carolina and the classroom comparisons mostly favor W&M. W&M, however is 25% more expensive for an OOS student to both schools. Among academics, and perhaps corroborating earlier comment about U North Carolina being research oriented and W&M teaching oriented, U North Carolina is the preferred choice.</p>
<p>The schools are very close in overall rank and many of the subcategories, but if you visit the schools and talk to the students and graduates, you will come to know the different personalities of these two excellent public schools. Personal fit should overwhelmingly drive this decision. </p>
<p>ADDING BC to the equation
Personal fit should continue to overwhelmingly this decision as the institutional differences are small. BC compares nicely with both (in many respects it is sort of the in-between choice), but one glaring difference is cost. BC is significantly more than U North Carolina and, to a lesser degree, W&M.</p>
<p>I would also suggest a student consider which school offers the strongest academic program in their area of career interest. I'll admit to bias since my d attends UNC-CH; but it is fact that UNC-CH has extremely strong undergrad and graduate programs in business and journalism (top 5 programs) and public health (the top program of those offered at all public universities, and tied for #2 with Harvard behind JHU in all public/private universities); and UNC-CH provides extremely strong law school and med school preparation. Doing well at UNC-CH will open any grad school doors as well.</p>
<p>I am not familiar with William and Mary or Boston College. Perhaps someone would like to point out their programs of strength to better inform the op and other interested parties about what is available academically at both schools.</p>
<p>Also...positive bias is one thing...negative is quite another. When I see extremely negative comments posted repeatedly by the same poster about any school or program, I like the click on their name and see if I can figure out the agenda. I recommend anyone seeking real info do the same...especially if you intend to rely on the negative information in any way.</p>
<p>hawkette:<br>
UNC is 82% in-state and has been for a very long while (not 87% as you stated above). So I don't know how current the information is that you've posted. When I tried to mention rankings here earlier, I was told that were of no value in deciding about colleges. But thanks for posting all this.
UNC is ranked #5 among all public universities; W&M ranked #6. Overall, UNC is ranked #27; W&M ranked 31. And while this may be of little value--for what it's worth--the average SAT for the entering class of 2006 at UNC-CH was 1288 (instate); 1356 (out-of-state).<br>
<a href="http://www.newsobserver.com/146/story/452089-p2.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.newsobserver.com/146/story/452089-p2.html</a>
For W&M, the average SAT for the entering class 2006 was 1299
<a href="http://www.wm.edu/ir/freshman_sat_averages_history.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.wm.edu/ir/freshman_sat_averages_history.htm</a>
I also do not know what programs/departments are W&M's strengths. My feeling, though, is that these 2 schools are very different in size, feel, and fit. I personally view a large and varied number of strong undergraduate departments/programs--as well as strong and varied graduate programs (even for those attending as undergraduates)--important and of value; research universities can and do offer more; others may not feel that and prefer a smaller school. That's why there are research universities and LAC's; people do have a choice.</p>
<p>^ if thats right, then UNC's average SAT score is (oh snap) 1.24 higher than W&Ms--here comes the rants.</p>
<p>jack,
You are absolutely right. I drew from a source that stated the number of out-of-state and my dyslexia kicked in and I got the math wrong. I listed the wrong in-state percentage for U North Carolina (although I think I got the number of in-state students right or very close). My data source says 17% are OOS, but as a knowledgable North Carolinian, you probably know better than me and my data source and I defer to your 18%. Please forgive the error. </p>
<p>Almost all of the information on this comparison and other ones like this that I have done draw heavily from the 2007 USNWR report, but the statistics are in some cases a bit outdated such as acceptance rate as we all know how much tougher it has gotten each of the last few years and particularly this year.</p>
<p>Things could (and probably have) changed a lot since I went to W&M, but we were very strong in premed (via the biology major), accounting (we had the highest first time pass rate in the state), and prelaw (history and econ). History was really nice, because even the freshman 101 world history class was limited to 30 students.</p>
<p>Really, if I look at W&M as objectively as it is possible for an alum to do, I would have to say that it is probably a great school for preparing a kid for further schooling, but is not much of a career launching school for the bachelor degree earners.</p>
<p>This could all be different now, as the business school has probably moved up a lot since I was there. It was a fairly new program in the early 1980's.</p>
<p>Edited: I believe the education school is very good as well, but unless you are a major in it, you really don't hear too much about it.</p>
<p>Also, the law school at W&M is top notch, again, I do not know the ranking.</p>
<p>I cannot remember where I found the info, but at one time, I saw that the OOS acceptance rate at W&M was around 20%, making it just about the same OOS difficulty as UVA, UCBerkley, and UNC.</p>
<p>As all excellent publics do, I woudl guess that W&M and UNC both rely heavily on the OOS students to bring the average SAT's way up.</p>
<p>No rants from me about the average SAT being higher at NC, like I said, both are excellent schools. If the state of Va would support W&M like they do UVA and VT, I am sure W&M would be even more highly ranked. I think it's amazing that W&M is as highly regarded as it is probably the smallest of the top 10 state schools, and probably one of the lowest ranked in faculty salaries.</p>
<p>In fact, this is why the OOS percentage is so much higher at W&M, they are letting as many OOS students in as they can,without risking the ire of the legislature, in order to generate more revenue. NC as a state is much better at funding their schools, and seeing it as an investment in the future. In Va, we have a very short sighted legislative body. Our roads are crumbling, and our universities are poorly funded.</p>
<p>Hawkette-</p>
<p>great post illustrating the strengths of each institution. W&M is an undergrad teaching LAC and UNC is stronger in the grad programs. BC is a nice hybrid. Students just need to match their needs/desires against what each school would offer. Factor in the unique setting/envronment of each and a student is well on their way to making an informed decision instead of relying blindly on rankings that are practically useless.</p>
<p>Jack I think you used the wrong number to compare SAT scores. The recentered avg for W&M is 1333 according to your link. Pls see Hawkettes post for a better comparison using accurate numbers.</p>