I think saying they shouldn’t have kids is a bit harsh. I guess I just hear daily stories from H who unloads dozens of kids every morning from cars filled with marijuana smoke, car seats are non existent, and plenty of stories of abuse and neglect. I think kids of this couple would fare just fine.
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My niece is closing in on 30 and definitely no marriage on the horizon. She works to travel. But she’s gone to numerous weddings over the last few years. I’d say the majority of her large friend circle is engaged or married, but only one has a child.
Interestingly, her former housemate and husband had all sorts of stipulations, which she thought odd, about finances, chores, children etc. The marriage lasted about 8 months.
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That article made the relationship sound more like a business deal - on both sides. That seemed sad to me.
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I actually agree. I saw the article as a more extreme example of changing values…a 16 page binder! However, who knows if it was single or double sided, handwritten or small/large font, separate page for a separate category?
I’m sort of kidding and simultaneously thinking of the Friends episode, “we were on a break!”
I’ve gone back and forth on this take. Discussing future expectations concerning a relationship sounds pragmatic and a kind of compatibility test. The detail/method/personalities of the individuals can be discussed, but as someone who went through a modified Pre-Cana I believe in the benefits that come from dialogue.
Perhaps these types of discussions are actually a way of showing one’s commitment to a relationship…investing the time and energy to sort through priorities as individuals, and as a couple.
It’s the sequencing/timing of these discussions that I question in the article. However in the case of that couple, my reaction is not my circus, not my monkeys.
I agree!
They either need to turn and run or they really do deserve one another. Can’t decide.
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In some ways, this a Sheldon of TBBT. who had his roommate agreement, just another example of it.
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And… Would anyone actually choose to live with Sheldon?
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Sheldon and Amy had a relationship agreement 
maybe the woman in the article is a fan.
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I think it can be just as tricky while married.
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19 year old college sophomore neighbor just had an unplanned baby. You don’t have to look far to see lots of people did it in a different order, including my grandmother was pregnant when she married, my aunt was pregnant when she married (happened a LOT in those days!), my sibling and his now spouse lived together and bought a house together before they married…
It can work no matter what order. It can not work no matter what order.
But I agree with everyone that the 2 in the article don’t seem ready to have a child.
I wonder why the woman in the article said “it’s a real possibility” that she might have to take up to a year off. Many people are lucky to be able to take 4 months of unpaid time off!
(I hope they counted the 24 hour, round the clock nannies in their budget! Apologies, that was snarky.)
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I agree with you 100%. H and I bought a house before we were married (met 39 years ago and married 33 years). Both of my brothers had children before they married. Everyone is still together and happy. I know lots of people married for 30 or more years and I know lots of divorced people. Life can still turn out wonderful even if you do things in a different order.
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I’m not as concerned about the order but the formal splitting of financial obligations and trying to quantify things and having one party balk.
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I think this is the thread where DINKWADs were discussed …
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NY Times opinion piece recommending marriage:
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But the fact that a young person isn’t gung-ho about getting married doesn’t mean that they feel this way because they are prioritizing career over marriage.
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I sent this article to my artist daughter with the subject line 'ugh."
I haven’t read the article, but I’m not surprised that being with others in community of some kind be it marriage or partnership or just really good friendship leads to more happiness for most folks than just nose to the grindstone dedicating yourself to your job.
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“Ugh” because you think it’s true but unwelcome news, or “ugh” because you don’t agree with this viewpoint?
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Following up after I read the article. I think it’s a pretty gross article. I say that as someone who has been happily married for 30 years this October.
This bit from the article I agree with:
There are mountains of evidence to show that intimate relationships, not career, are at the core of life, and that those intimate relationships will have a downstream effect on everything else you do.
But I don’t think you have to have a piece of paper that says you are married and love each other to have an intimate (not necessarily sexual) relationship. In my life I know committed couples who are not married, single folks by choice who surround themselves with good friends and family (siblings, parents, cousins), widowed folks who have been devastated but rebuilt and are happy now, and divorced folks who are onto the next chapter in their lives and are dating new people. And some single folks who are very very happy with their dogs.
The whole piece comes across very 1950s paternalistic.
Yes, definitely cultivate relationships in your life. People are more important than money. But does it have to be marriage? Judging from the people around me, I don’t think so, and sometimes marriage makes people miserable.
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I think @Sweetgum’s post (after they read the article) articulates my feelings well.
And I would add that as a person with an artist kid, that work is probably more important to them than finding a partner.
Maybe the author should define “career.”
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