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<p>Yep - definitely true.</p>
<p>liek0806, that analysis is pretty dead on - I remember the TA’s actually telling us that they had been instructed to make the average grade a B-</p>
<p>Berkeley sounds like the best match for me(as a school and environment). But I already have debt and got my parents in debt from art school(prior to CC)so I really don’t want to add to the expense if I don’t have to. Additionally “what you should be making after college.” is not as realistic when one is majoring in Philosophy. I would be forced to get a job immediately afterwords and I have no idea what I want to “slave” away doing that won’t be so much of a compromise in my life(if this makes sense)?</p>
<p>Another reason why I’m thinking UCLA, aside from the finances, is because of my social life. Since turning 21, I’ve actually gone out more than I probably should. Being 21 in LA makes a huge difference.</p>
<p>Now if the theories weren’t true(financial summary) and I got rejected by UCLA, and into Berkeley, my choice would be made. Same vise versa(which should make this whole thing easier).</p>
<p>Thanks for all these responses. Hopefully my gpa will be like 3.7 by the end of fall 09 so i will have a pretty good shot. It seems like the popularity of philosophy is definitely rising though. </p>
<p>I’m assuming that both these schools will look great when applying to law school ( which is my plan) So I guess i need to check out the campuses, because im looking for a college town which i believe berkeley is more than ucla. In regards to the hot girls lol, when ive been to ucla there arent that many so how could there be less at berkeley</p>
<p>hmm interesting liek</p>
<p>Sorry to bring up an old thread but I am facing the same dilemna, trying to choose between these two schools for philosophy. </p>
<p>“UCLA is more analytical than Berkeley. Berkeley tends to be more broad and conver more subjects and philosophers.”
“UCLA will train you to be meticulous thinkers. Period. You will notice differences where before, in your judgment, none existed”
Can anyone confirm these statements? If this is true then UCLA truly does seem like a better match for my purposes, which is to attend a top law school, and if that is the type of education the UCLA undergrad program offers then it sounds like a perfect match for me. But does this mean that Cal doesn’t teach you how to be analytic and “meticulous thinkers” I would have thought that a school like Cal would do at least that much if not more.</p>
<p>I am also a philo major and just applied to both these of these schools.</p>
<p>CCjunior:</p>
<p>From all that I’ve heard/read, the two schools are very comparable and will both look good on any law school application (also my plan). So, I would reccomend that you use other factors in making your decision. As in where do you really want to spend your next two years? We transfers definitely need to weigh this question more because we’ve earned it, as CCC’s suck. </p>
<p>For what it counts, If i get in to both Cal and UCLA will be attending UCLA simply because its closer to home, and i will dorm, as i feel no need to bolt out of my parents’ household.</p>
<p>hope this helped.</p>
<p>Hey CC, I know your message was never answered and you’re probably long graduated by now. But, I am going to answer it anyway just in case others visit this thread and are wondering the same thing. I am a Cal philosophy undergrad in my last semester right now, and I can definitely say going through the program “trained me to be a meticulous thinker” every bit as well as UCLA could have, probably better. Of course, I never attended UCLA, so I won’t pretend to know exactly what it’s like over there. But, Cal was more than challenging. I was reading that post about UCLA above, and it seemed like a really good guide to Cal philosophy minus a few things: first, the lower div classes are around 100-175 people, not 150-250; second, there is no rule at Cal philosophy about how many students can get an ‘A’-- in fact, the whole class can be awarded an A if the work is deserving (I should note, however, that very few people do end up getting an A since the expectations for such a grade are really high); third, A+'s don’t exist, or at least I’ve never seen or even heard of anyone getting one; and lastly, anything below a B- is rarely given unless your work is extremely confused and unreadable, so don’t worry about B.S. curves. Like the above mentioned post already said, lower div courses are a bit tougher since there is a lot more reading, and since the class sizes are much larger. There are three required lower div courses: modern philosophy, ancient philosophy, and logic. Aside from these, you have to take nine other upper divs to finish the degree, one of which has to be a class called Philosophical Methods. I’m not sure if UCLA has an equivalent to this class, but it’s amazing and crazy hard. I don’t want to get into too much detail, but this class asks you to write A LOT, and what’s especially cool is that you meet with a philosophy grad student one on one for 30 minutes a week to discuss the weekly writing they have you do. This class really straightens your writing out (i.e., makes it clear, concise, precise, structured, elegant, and so on), and makes writing essays almost trivial (i.e., you don’t get so stressed out about essays anymore since, once you’ve completed this class, you have written a **** load of them). As to the point about UCLA being more analytic than Cal, my response is that I really don’t know since I haven’t taken any classes at UCLA. But, at first glance, thinking that UCLA is more analytic seems flat out wrong. And, even if it is true, then all I can say is that really sucks. If cal were anymore focused on analytic philosophy and thought, my head would have likely exploded. The person who said this was probably a UCLA student who doesn’t want to admit Cal’s program is wayyy better. Cal has numerous philosophers who are considered to be some of the best living thinkers, like Barry Stroud, John Searle, Hans Sluga, and Hubert Dreyfus. And, aside from these really famous members of the faculty, I have to say that the less-famous people are amazing as well. They are all brilliant rising stars in their respective fields. Of course, I’m sure UCLA has a great faculty as well, but nothing like Berkeley’s. All in all, if you’re trying to choose between these two schools for philosophy, I would recommend Cal. The weather is perfect year round, people are nice, and, from what I gather, the Philosophy program is much less stressful since there is no official curve and since class sizes are smaller. One other major point I should mention is that the grad students at Cal are *<strong><em>ing phenomenal, and I have heard the same cannot be said for UCLA. One reason for this is that Cal, despite what people above said, is ranked higher (a fair bit higher) than UCLA, and thus attracts the best and brightest from around the world. if you doubt what I just said, google the rankings…you probably should stop taking peoples word for it and just check. Anyways, having good grad students makes a massive difference. I would argue that it’s even more important than having good professors. There are a couple reasons for this: first, the one hour discussion per week, which is led by a grad student, is really where one gets to ask all the questions he/she wants answered, and thus it is where one can really grasp what is going on. And second, grad students are the ones who grade your papers and turn in your final grades, not professors-- at least most of the time. So, the good ones will give you helpful feedback, not just some quick *</em></strong>ty notes that don’t help. Alright, well, I feel like I have rambled on enough. I really hope this helps someone. Good luck with philosophy, it is a cold and bitter field of study, but it does help make you a solid thinker!</p>
<p>You tout this amazing philosophy methods class that really improves writing and then you write an endless paragraph, flush with bias and lacking division or pause between supporting ideas, and you expect us to believe Cal is better?</p>
<p>Zimzam, I now realize that my post lacks any sort of structure, and is a bit annoying to read. But, to be fair, I wrote it up in less than ten minutes and did not even once think about how well it reads through. This is a forum dude…
As to your other point about my post being ‘flush with bias’, I would actually like to hear how. I made it rather clear at numerous points that I have never attended UCLA, and thus do not pretend to intimately know their program. All the points of comparison I made between Cal and UCLA are facts that I have no doubt about and which can be verified by anyone: we are ranked higher, we have a more distinguished faculty, we have better grad students, we have smaller class sizes, and so on.
All in all, I do apologize for the *<strong><em>ty and annoying format of my my last post, but have no regrets about the actual information in it. I do want to be helpful though, and so, I won’t leave my post the way it currently is. I’ll come back after midterms and rewrite that *</em></strong> so as to make it at least decently readable. Peace!</p>
Hey man, I got into Berkeley for philosophy with a 3.43 GPA. One of my favorite philosophy professors at my community college really suggest I attend because it is his alma matter and he said he had an awesome time studying philosophy there. Check it out!