<p>My son has been accepted to both. He is set to go to Williams but received a waitlist call the other day from Mudd.</p>
<p>He is trying to determine which school has a stronger math program and which school sends more students to top tier phd programs.</p>
<p>Since he lives in Mass, Williams is a safer choice. Mudd is intriguing to him, especially if it has a similar student population to Olin. Mudd would probably be a better social fit for him IF it is like Olin, but, he is thinking with the Williams entry system, he might find enough mathy/science students to make it work. The money is 2k less to send him to Mudd but, flying him from Mass to California, would balance it out!</p>
<p>Students at Mudd are more math/tech oriented. If your son thinks Mudd would be a better social fit for him, I’d probably go with Mudd. But only if he’s visited…</p>
<p>Speaking of flights, are there direct flights from Mass to Ontario airport (closest major airport to Claremont)? My guess is no, and he’ll have to get to LAX for flights which is a distance from Claremont.</p>
<p>Travel, although never a sinecure, might not be that bad. For instance, JetBlue flies not only from Boston to LAX but also to Long Beach, which is a bit closer to Mudd. Ontario is easily reachable via connections. From all those places, there are affordable shuttles for regular travel. When moving in and out, it is expected to rent a vehicle.</p>
<p>Williams is not exactly the most accessible place in the LAC world. :)</p>
<p>No non-stops from Boston to Ontario, but Southwest (change at Chicago Midway or Phoenix), US Airways (change at Phoenix), or Continental (change at Houston) will get him there in one stop, with r/t airfares currently running around $350 advance booking. Better that than a non-stop to LAX which is about 50 miles from Claremont.</p>
<p>There are several variables that come into play. Waiting for a connection versus the safety of a direct flight. While Phoenix does not weather issues (thing Chicago) delays are not that rare during high volume periods. Coast to coast flights that fly over the midwest are not a bad option, including the red-eyes. Then, you have the cost issue, starting with the hefty fees for bags. While this might give a tip to Southwest, their fares have skyrocketed lately and their reward program is a ghost of what it used to be. </p>
<p>All in all, it is a matter of preferences. Some might prefer to sit one hour in a blue van versus waiting the same hour for the connecting announcement. This said, avoiding LAX is always a good idea (hence Long Beach) and flying into Ontario is nice.</p>
<p>Do not use the term “direct” when talking to an airline agent or travel agent when you really mean a non-stop flight.</p>
<p>“Direct” in airline jargon means that the same flight number is on all segments of the flight, which may stop in one or more places. On some airlines (e.g. Southwest), the same airplane is used for all segments of the flight, which means that you will not miss the next segment if you just sit on the plane at the intermediate stop. But on some other airlines (e.g. United, Delta), you could have a plane change (connection) at the stop, and the possibility of missing your connection, as well as increased change of checked baggage missing your connection.</p>
<p>If the choice is between a connecting flight to a nearby airport or a non-stop flight to a further away airport, consider the availability, cost, and convenience of ground transportation to and from the further away airport. The choice could go either way.</p>
<p>If the OP’s son ends up in Claremont, he might decide to write a probability program for all the variables related to connections versus quasi-direct flights between Mass and California. ;)</p>
<p>These two schools strike me as being quite different in temperament. Harvey Mudd is more geeky, it tends to attract hard core math and science students. Williams would have a broader range of students. Both math programs are very strong. Either school could lead him to a PhD program, that part will be up to him.</p>
<p>I’m having trouble with this part. No graduate program is going to have a preference for taking students from one of these schools over the other, both math programs are first rate and plenty of students from both schools go on to get PhDs.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to state the obvious but graduate programs will weigh your son’s grades and teacher recommendations more heavily than which of these schools he matriculated from. At either of these schools it is hard to get As in math classes but some students do it. In their classes professors see students with a wide range of aptitude and the few who are really capable stand out. Down the road the recommendations given to these students reflect this.</p>
<p>I think your son should base his decision on where he would rather spend the next four years because at these schools even the weather is different.</p>
<p>Williams is the premiere liberal arts college, for the the many reasons with which you are already familiar.</p>
<p>Mudd, however, seems irresistible given the intellectual and social opportunities that are available to students of the Claremont Colleges. And, can you imagine the sunlight? What a wonderful change from the wretchedness of New England weather. And getting as far away from home as possible and actually growing up? Inconceivable.</p>
<p>Williams has the best math program among general LACs and one of the best in the country, period. Grad school placement, job placement from their program is awesome. Mudd’s program is of comparable quality, I wouldn’t call it stronger. </p>
<p>Mudd, of course, is a place where your son can bond with 1000 other “mathy, science students” but Williams has an unusually large group of math majors and a fair number of science majors and he will not be alone. Weather is night and day. Williams will be buccolic hills, long winters, small college town rural. Mudd will be sunny, warm, small town suburban (Claremont’s not my fav but still large compared with Williamstown) with LA, the beach, skiing, hiking available for occassional day tripping. Mudd will feel much larger, IMHO, than Williams, with the 4 other Claremonts joined at the hip. But kids at Williams generally love their experiences there, bond to each other and continue to do so after grad as alums.</p>
<p>Two very different vibes. I’d focus on where he feels he’d fit in best and less on the relative strength of these two great math spots.</p>
<p>Thanks for your help. I had no idea the complications around flying to mudd from western mass! His deadline is Thursday for Mudd so I will share your input with him. He is used to the wretched weather here… He just wants to make sure that Williams will be as challenging as Mudd. He has found the Smith College math classes relatively easy to get an A so was worried that Williams might be around the same intensity.</p>
<p>I will add to this discussion by mentioning the shuttle Service to and from the Ontario and Long Beach airport is very convienient. My DD flies nonstop into Ontario but we have also flown into Long Beach. Both are small airports with ease of in and out access. </p>
<p>Pomona College has an agreement with a shuttle service for pick up and drop off that is discounted for students. It has made travel arrangements easy to plan and implement. I imagine this agreement is the same for all the Claremont colleges.</p>
<p>There is shuttle service to LAX but if you can swing it the other two airports are closer making the trip easier.</p>
<p>And that would be wrong! Also, there is no reason to want to introduce a vague concept such as a “general” LAC, and whatever that might mean. </p>
<p>The OP asked about the “better” program and the one with the best success in obtaining a terminal degree. </p>
<p>There are very few times when clear distinctions can be made, and this is one of those cases. When looking for a comparison to Mudd’s math program, one looks a bit to the West and Pasadena. Williams does have a very strong program but it is more comparable to programs at Pomona, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Carleton, and even Wesleyan, Haverford, and St. Olaf. </p>
<p>Fwiw, between Mudd (that is the clear leader in this field) and Williams, you probably should place Reed, especially when looking at the PhD Production. </p>
<p>This said, the biggest decision should be about flying from one coast to the other for 8 to 12 times. By the way, once in California, the travel from one of the airports in really not that bad. Frankly, if one considers that the Claremont colleges are difficult to reach, most LACs should be not be considered. In addition, having several airports within ONE hour of travel is a great luxury to have.</p>
<p>In the end, it would require a sacrifice to attend the best program.</p>
<p>Getting to Mudd from the East Coast isn’t bad. Fly out of Boston and change in Phoenix to go to Ontario Airport. Ontario is small and FAST to get in/out.
I would tend to think that Mudd’s program would be stronger than Williams, in part because the incoming students will tend to be stronger math students. Mudd has a larger group of very strong math students - one measure would be the Putnam, (a major college math competition). HMC seems to typically field a team about twice as big as Willaims and places higher. (Williams does quite well.)
HMC’s clinic is an interesting difference too.</p>
<p>Does your son want to stay close to home? Is he likely to want to come home once a month to hang out with family and high school friends? Would he embrace living in a different part of the country?</p>
<p>two mules: he loves the idea of everybody in it together re: the common core. He loves math and physics. Less, so chemistry (in ap chem now, not crazy about it but doing fine).</p>
<p>I think he would prefer that Mudd were right next to Williams (an hour away from home). He would visit home most likely to visit our pug and his little six-year-old sister! He wouldn’t come home to visit friends. He never really found a group to hang with in high school. He has friends but really only one he hangs out with. He has always been a somewhat shy, studious, homebody, but know he is ready to branch out. He did enjoy the marching band and concert band. That was where he was the most comfortable. He is definitely a non-drinker at this time but things could change! </p>
<p>He really fit with the Olin students during candidates weekend and he had heard that Mudd was the Olin of the west and that is why he applied. I think what he would embrace would be the sense of belonging at Mudd (where there are many like him and they are all working hard together). I think Williams could work for him too mainly because of the entry system they have there…he would need a social boost because he is an introvert. He thought the professors were fantastic.</p>
<p>He had a hard time turning down Rice (especially because of the house system) but decided against it in part because of the distance and that he felt the Williams math department was stronger as a whole.</p>
<p>If he had gotten into Olin after the candidate’s weekend, that is where he would be going (and they don’t even OFFER math). Go figure!</p>
He just wants to make sure that Williams will be as challenging as Mudd. He has found the Smith College math classes relatively easy to get an A so was worried that Williams might be around the same intensity.</p>