Bias and bigotry in academia

Applying to College
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<p>I am Hispanic so I can’t complain, but WikiMan made a very good point. It is a bit humiliating that whatever college I get into, it will be because of my ethnicity more than my intellectual and personal qualities (assuming I get into a very good school).
**These days most wealthy minority families have lost their original culture and heritage and have assimilated into the cliche white-washed American culture of the upper class.</p>

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<p>Those poor rich white people.</p>

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<p>@samd
I’m hispanic. From my understanding, if you’re accepted into a university, the uni felt that you were qualified to handle there course load and succeed thereafter. Why would they accept you if they knew you were destined to struggle and fail? That wouldn’t look so good on the college rankings. If you get into a very good school, I’m certain your intellectual and personal qualities will be the first thing they look at.</p>

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<p>Yes, my other qualities would definitely play a huge role, but being Hispanic would put me at an advantage over other white/asian students with similar stats/qualities which is kind of the whole point of this thread. If I BARELY get into Stanford it may very possibly be because of my race.</p>

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<p>The obvious solution to this problem is to flip a coin: head goes to college, tail stays home. Hell, even better solution: ban all colleges. Those who want an education should head to the library, they accept all customers.</p>

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<p>THEWIKIMAN: Your quote by Ayn rand doesn’t make sense “merit alone should determine acceptance”. The goal of most private colleges is to create a dynamic and diverse community and if colleges used merit alone as in SAT scores and GPA, most colleges would be filled with Asians and whites with high test scores. (I am not insinuating that blacks are not capable of attaining good grades and test scores) Where would the educational growth be if students are not exposed to diversity, different cultures, and student with different backgrounds? There is only so much you can learn from a textbook, we learn the most from the people surrounding us. My belief is that colleges look for the best students in each race that meet their standards, and sometimes colleges have to stoop lower in terms of test scores for certain URM groups (note this is my OPINION/Hypothesis). </p>

<p>Samd: If you really feel that, don’t mark your race down when you apply to colleges. This goes for every URM that is against AA.
Oh and if any ORM is against AA why apply to a school that allow such “wrongs” to take place?</p>

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<p>It never ceases to amaze me that blacks are targeted as such privileged individuals because “private” Universities have concluded that “diversity” enriches the whole College environment. The wealthy and connected get more breaks in every facet of American Collegiate life and are routinely accepted into the top Universities without scoring high on the SAT Exam.</p>

<p>The Wealthy also get breaks in Internships, get their kids the best “tutors” to “game” the system wherein poor & middle class minorities can’t get their kids the extra prep to do well on a test that doesn’t predict success in College anyway unless you totally bomb at which point whatever color you are you won’t get in. Below is a link from the NY Times that clearly talks about one facet of the multitude of breaks wealthy individuals get. As a White American of means, I know how affluent households get breaks that will never happen for poor & middle class blacks. Stop the phony demonizing and it is so disingenious to harp on Minority priviledge in admissions. Give me a break as what they had to overcome to get that 1200-1300 on the SAT more than qualifies them for admissions to the top Colleges. If most whites had to live their lives for 15 years, they would be featured on “Forensic Files” or “Cold Case”. I’m amazed to see minorities surrounded by poverty and terrible Communities still have a love of learning and do well in their “public” underfunded school system to score well on the SAT and get good grades. I can afford to send my child to the best Prep Schools unlike many minorities that have 25-30 kids in their class. See link below and tell me about minority privilege. Get real!</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/nyregion/20interns.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/nyregion/20interns.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>@samd</p>

<p>You will never know if it was because of your race, so just be faithful your acceptance was because you’re a super intelligent, unique, person. I hate these AA arguments because it makes people like you feel this way.</p>

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<p>It’s not just the socioeconomic difference.</p>

<p>[File:TBC-BW-IQ-SES-withDiff.png</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TBC-BW-IQ-SES-withDiff.png]File:TBC-BW-IQ-SES-withDiff.png”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TBC-BW-IQ-SES-withDiff.png)</p>

<p>There are other factors present. I believe social/cultural values are the big culprit here though somehow that manages to be a sensitive area of discussion (which stymies progress IMO).</p>

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<p>@Buk you make a good point in response to Wiki, but what this thread and many others imply is that colleges are taking race more into account than economic status which affects one’s life at a much higher degree than does race. The result is rich blacks and Hispanics being accepted over poor minorities (even whites). </p>

<p>and why would I do that? I can’t remember the last time I’ve rejected my greedy desires on moral grounds, though you;ve made a good point again</p>

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<p>Renais makes a good point. Socioeconomic AA is the way to go, plain and simple. The unfortunate reality though is…a poor person either A) doesn’t even know about many of the private colleges, or B) doesn’t believe their credentials will allow them acceptance, so they won’t apply. </p>

<p>TheWikiMan, Black’s and Hispanics are not offended by this because it helps them enter the more prestigious universities. Who would want to forgo that benefit? You’re right though, the intended beneficiaries of the current AA policies of many institutions are in fact middle/upper class Hispanics and Blacks. But like I said before, the lower class minorities either don’t know, or found out too late and cannot impress top colleges enough. I propose the way to fix this is to try and influence the trajectory of minorities from impoverished families while young. Any sort of large scale application is strictly a government issue however, and it seems like a few states across the nation show dissent towards such policies.</p>

<p>Wikiman, I seriously have to contend your statement concerning merit being the primary metric for entrance. To put it simply I’ll give you an example:</p>

<p>Student A has his own room with his own comfortable desk and lamp, bought for him by his mother and father. He can talk to his friends about his academic responsibilities, because he attends a school where many share the same interest. His school offers a variety of opportunities, from clubs to sports teams, along with being equipped with nice facilities and a useful library.</p>

<p>Student B does his work on the noisy kitchen table with the TV going off in the living room next to it. His mother doesn’t have enough time to guide the family, she works too much simply to pay the bills. He only has a few people to talk to about his plight. Instead, he’s pressured into the unproductive activities of his peers. His school offers no sports teams, and barely any clubs. The teachers are unmotivated and the school is dirty and without support.</p>

<p>Obviously, this is a fairly simple contrast between a student from an reasonably well off family, and a student from a poor family. To say that they have equal ground for achievement is absolutely ridiculous. It’s not as simple as buying a review book and studying on your own.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2009/jun/04/local_student_from_housing_project_heads_to_mit-ar-223831/[/url]”>http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2009/jun/04/local_student_from_housing_project_heads_to_mit-ar-223831/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The only people who would object to the acceptance of this student are only those who are oblivious to the difficulty of overcoming poverty.</p>

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<p>Of course, that is the privilege that Bush enjoyed and it’s the most infuriating advantage of all! The wealthy are definitely not under-represented at colleges.</p>

<p>Years ago, I was visiting friends and went with them to a bar in Georgetown. While I was in the ladies’ room I overheard 3 young women talking about their colleges, summer jobs, etc. It was amazing how insipid these young women were! And they were name dropping some incredible schools (sorry, I can’t remember them). And I wondered how on earth they could have been admitted to those schools. </p>

<p>I was young and naive then, but I came to realize that they probably weren’t totally blowing school off (like their drunken brothers might have) and more importantly than checking any box about race, they were NOT checking the box that says you’ll be applying for financial aid. Mommy and Daddy’s money got them into those great schools – which seemed to me not so great after that!</p>

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<p>I agree that AA can be unfair to everyone. It’s not right that any person should be accepted to a school and then find themself questioning the reasons why. Especially if that reason is totally out of their control.</p>

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<p>You earned your screen name with that one, greenwitch! ;)</p>

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<p>Hey, it’s more about chlorophyll…</p>

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<p>Consider that Pat Buchanan wrote the article. What do people think of his belief that mormons, jehovah’s witnesses, 4H members, FFA members, conservative christians, ethnic catholics, pentecostals, etc are discriminated against in college admissions?</p>

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<p>The article the starter of this thread quotes is by xenophobic anti semetic racist Pat Buchannan. He quotes a Princeton Professor and then boom, you read the Happy Warrior Pat Buchannan instead. There was an article in the NY Times that talked about the white avenger Pat lecturing students at Harvard once again sticking up for poor discriminated against right wing mid west & southern whites. It’s funny how they talk about horrible Northern Liberals but always cry foul when things don’t go their way in admissions in “Liberal” land.</p>

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<p>sounds like there is some political discrimination going on in admissions…this is an interesting topic and rarely talked about on this site. IT sounds logical though, most adcoms are liberal (since most good schools are on the Coasts or up north). SO i guess these applicants are better off applying to schools in the SOuth haha</p>

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<p>Scrivener stated:
Who has the easier time getting into college; kid A that attends fancy, well-regarded private school, teaches underprivileged kids in Africa over the summer (funded by good old mom and pop), and has ample time to devote towards their research project for the Intel contest, or a lower income, kid B that has too attend their sh***y public school where they have crap teachers and horrible guidance and has to work a job over the summer (and all year round) instead of that trip or research?</p>

<p>Actually, either of these students would have an easier time getting into college, especially the ivies or other private selective schools than my daughters or many of the students I teach at a not-so-sh***y public school. My daughters are female (obviously), white, and come from a family that is neither poor nor rich. We don’t seem to qualify for need-based aid, but with a combined yearly family income of $100,000, to pay $200,000+ tuition, room & board out of pocket for each kid would mean selling our home, cashing in our retirement, pretty much sinking everything we have into their undergraduate education. Colleges seem to be doing a lot now to get students who are poor, or who are a desired minority, or disadvantaged in some way. Students who are wealthy don’t worry about cost. For the many of us somewhere in between, we have to hope our students get merit based aid, or they will attending cheaper state universities. It was very hard for my oldest daughter to watch classmates with lower GPA, lower class rank, and lower SAT scores get actively courted by and given more money at schools she was applying to because they were male and/or they were a minority. She worked hard all her life to earn good grades and do all the other things required for a good college transcript. She got accepted to her dream school, but was offered no money. It was a really hard thing for her to accept that the 2 things that were out of her control, her gender and her skin color, worked against her.</p>

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<p>Do colleges keep admissions statistics on these groups? How would Buchanan know how many of these students are admitted?</p>