<p>The notion that inequality will disappear and everyone will be rich, happy, and equal is amusing.</p>
<p>Excellent point Midnight!</p>
<p>Dheldreth: 100,00.00 family income is not a lot of money. I know people with that income that gets plenty of financial aid. I don’t know what you’re doing or getting at, but your family income more than qualifies for aid as I’ve known people at D’s Prep School who are white that get FA when they attend College. Look into that as this is not the norm.</p>
<p>Oh god, Midnight. I just read your post. Student B was me! lol</p>
<p>It was just really bad how all the bad kids interrupted class so much everyone who wanted to learn didn’t get a chance to. My Algebra II teacher from MIT was in the hallway crying one day because of the kids.</p>
<p>Good point Scrivener. I am also white and know the reality out there for us versus blacks, especially if you are well off. I donot deny that my wealth has opened doors for my daughter that minorities from poor or middle class families will never be able to walk through. Affluent people that deny this are full of crap.</p>
<p>I really just don’t understand how admitting certain students based on their ethnic backgrounds is fair. College admissions should be about who is qualified enough to get in. And if that means that one certain college’s majority of students are Asian, then so be it. And if another college ends up being predominantly white, then so be it.</p>
<p>It’s like the whole public school zoning system. I have a friend who lives in a certain zone for let’s say “Plum High School”. But because she is African American they bus her to “Strawberry High School”, a good thirty minutes away, along with other URM so they can attend a high school that is predominantly white. And some of STrawberry High’s students are bussed to Plum High because of their ethnic backgrounds. I just don’t understand trying to make everything equal.</p>
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<p>Most colleges in America do admit students this way. However, it is not the admissions goal of top-tier colleges to be “fair,” but to craft the best class, which includes many different kinds of diversity, in order to provide its students with the benefits that inure from that learning environment.</p>
<p>racial affirmative action is the right thing to do</p>
<p>No offense to you Enginox, but posting a single condescending line doesn’t contribute a smidgen to the discussion. If you really feel that way, please enlighten us.</p>
<p>For those who can empathize with the poor student, I feel for you. Fortune is on your side. LunaCow, I can’t say I faced the same situation. I was the kid interrupting class. I spent all four years of high school indulging in very ignorant debauchery. Thankfully, I’ve learned a bit about life the hard way since I graduated high school.</p>
<p>Also, let’s not be naive and believe universities are there solely for academic purposes. I’m sure they realize the power they have to stimulate changes in society; in these particular cases it would be the ability to help in the social mobility of the disadvantaged and the minorities.</p>
<p>^Your problem is that you truly believe you can solve the socioeconomic problems of all the minorities and disadvantaged peoples. If you mean reducing their misery, excellent, we may do that. If you mean putting them on par with the middle class and wealthy, then no, sorry, not possible.</p>
<p>The world needs ditchdiggers, security guards, and waiters, too.</p>
<p>I am an African American, that attended crappy public schools my entire life. I was an A student with 650 Math & 600 CR SAT scores. I volunteered at a nursing home, and had a part time job tutoring in an after school program. My class rank was 11\1000. We were not prepared for the PSAT or the SAT. When I wanted to sign up for the SAT prep class, I was told that it would be a waste of time because I would not be able to improve my scores by very much. I impoved my scores by well over 100 points on each test. </p>
<p>We had one college counselor for the entire class, who did nothing but discourage me from applying to any Ivy League school. If it were not for AA I would not have gotten into Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Middlebury, University of PA, or Dartmouth. I chose Dartmouth, and AA did not help me graduate with a GPA of 3.4. I worked hard and I resent that people assume that I only got in because I am African American. This is the AA misconception. The reality is that AA has done more for white females that any other group. AA opened the door for me, but nobody helped me get through 4 years there. I was the one that made it happen. As a matter of fact, I had to work harder because I was not prepared in high school, even though I was a honors student. I did not have the benefit of a average class size of 15. </p>
<p>It irkes me that when, I say I went to Dartmouth, people assume that I got in soley on a free pass. In my entire life I can count on one hand the number of really good teachers that I had. My parents did not have much but, education was important to them, and I read everything and anything that I could get my hands on. Can you imagine, that a honors high school kid was never assigned to read Shakespeare. Most of the books that I read that should be included on any decent high school’s reading list; I read on my own. </p>
<p>I watch my son who is now enrolled in an extremely competitive prep school. He is an A student with High SAT and SATII scores, and an AP scholar. My husband attended a competitve prep school, A student with high SAT scores. Neither of them need AA, because they had the opportunity to attend private schools all their lives, I did not. Without affirmative action someone like me would not have been able to attend Dartmouth. For most of the top colleges African Americans only make up 6-8% of any Freshman class. Reading these post one would that that it’s more like 25-50%.
Economics plays a big roll. I was speaking to another parent, who happens to be a low income single parent. Her child has also attended competive private schools all her life, she is an A student, but has low SAT’s. She could not afford to pay for the KAPLAN SAT prep class, that more than half the class signed up for. Does this mean that she should not get in to a top school?</p>
<p>^If the student does not obtain a high score on the SAT, no. Why did you not loan the mother the money?</p>
<p>Why should she?
Hey enginox, I didn’t have money for kaplan, want to lend it to me?</p>
<p>How did you manage to deduce that I “truly believe I can solve the socioeconomic problems of all the minorities and disadvantaged peoples” from what I’ve posted in this thread?</p>
<p>@primetimekin:</p>
<p>No, I am not going to loan you the money because I do not have an interest in you going to college in contrast to the concerned gentleman 4 posts above.</p>
<p>@MidnightMaruader</p>
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<p>I took your comment and expanded it. For every poor kid you help, there are 10+ that will continue living in poverty, reproducing, and increasing misery. Those 10+ kids will also demand the same kind of treatment and if not received, will be resentful.</p>
<p>I just realized I could have gotten into the Ivy League if I had applied. </p>
<p>Oh well.</p>
<p>Prepveteran, no, $100,000 doesn’t sound like much, but when you fill out the FAFSA, you include everything - savings, CD’s, retirement accounts. Our estimated family contribution is supposedly around $35,000 per year - which would put us in financial jeopardy if we actually gave that much out of pocket for each child for 4 years. </p>
<p>I’m not trying to get at anything - just that is seems that a large group of students - the majority of students - are being overlooked here. The not poor, not rich, not minority student. With the same stats (and sometimes better), they have more difficulty getting in to selective schools, and if they do get in, they have more difficulty paying for it. </p>
<p>And the gender thing - well that’s another story!
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html</a></p>
<p>I guess my Ayn Rand injection was a little too extreme, but I still stand by the fundamental principle that race should completely be removed from admissions. In terms of having minorities to increase diversity, that is somewhat of a joke, the fact that colleges support diversity is a kind of nonsensical. America is a land known for its assimilation and ubiquitous culture so in reality how different really are white people, black people, and asian people. I would contend that on the whole the three groups have so much more in common that there slight differences don’t really add up to “diversity”. And again going back to my point about how AA is simply a plus for middle class minorities, the diversity argument further weakens. I have a black friend who is just like me, same life experiences, same tastes, and so on. His stats are slightly lower but the boost he will get for being “black” is simply unfair. Regardless of whether he is accepted to a top college or me, no increased diversity is really added. Thats just my opinion, of course there are truly unique cases, but on the whole i feel only international applicants can bring real diversity. </p>
<p>I am in favor of socioeconomic AA, that simply makes more sense since it addresses the heart of the problem, I don’t mind if a minority gets a boost because they don’t have the same opportunity or environment, but leave the race part out, that is just ludicrous.</p>
<p>The study points out is that rich whites with the same stats get in over poor whites. This is not about extra test prep.</p>
<p>It is often said here on CC that the poor have an advantage, it should be noted that it is true only for URMs.</p>
<p>My post is in response to Affirmative Action and the first post.</p>
<p>Can someone enlighten me on what SAT scores prove? </p>
<p>After finishing my first year of college, I realize that they don’t mean ****. Off-topic</p>
<p>The issue I wanted to bring up is black anti-intellectualism.</p>
<p>To cut a long story short: African American parents (majority), as well as other people have low expectations for blacks. In a study done not too long ago, Asian, White and Black parents were asked what was the lowest grade they expected from their child. Asian parents said A-, White parents said the same and Black parents expected the lowest grades for their children.</p>
<p>This is the problem in the African American community and I think that college adcoms see that. Obviously, there are cultural changes that need to be made.</p>
<p>Racism is an issue, but it isn’t the prevalent issue in our society today. Although African Americans deal with prejudice, discrimination and all the other isms, there isn’t any reason why a black student should not be held to the same standards as their peers.</p>
<p>Racial affirmative action or as colleges call it “Diversity” helped me, but now that I’m in college is bothers me that given the same resources as Whites/Asians, black still have on average, lower GPA’s than Whites/Asians. Although one can say that their is still an achievement gap that needs to be filled, I still think it’s no excuse.</p>
<p>I’m African (I don’t go by African American), my parents combined make over $200k and I still receive FA.</p>
<p>Side note: I think African parents have higher standards than the typical black American family (ties to slavery).</p>