Biology

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Rochester
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<p>I'm working on planning courses for fall semester of Freshmen year, yet I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to place Biology in it. I'm hoping to take BIO 112 (through getting a signature from Dr. Terry Platt [though I was wondering if anyone had any information on how exactly to do that]), yet I was also planning on most likely taking MTH 173Q, which is offered 10-10:50 MWF while BIO 112 is offered 9-9:50 MWF, so I was wondering if this 10 minute time frame would be enough to get between classes (this would also apply to Bio 110 should I be forced to take it, whose two classes flank it). It's possible that I could get placement into MTH 174Q using the exams and final exam from my Calculus 3 course at High School along with the teacher's recommendation (for comparison's sake, my teacher said it covered at least 90% of the material in MTH 164).</p>

<p>Another question that I had concerning BIO 112 was whether I could opt to only take BIO 112 and not 114 as well, though I still might end up taking it depending on how first semester goes as far as getting used to the changes and handling the courses. This is mainly because without getting placement into MTH 174Q, math and sciences would take up 3 courses first semester (BIO 112, MTH 173Q, and PHY 142) and 4 courses second semester (BIO 114, MTH 174Q, PHY 143, and CHM 132). This wouldn't leave much room for the writing class and the courses in Chinese language that I'd like to take (one of my clusters, Philosophy likely being the other).</p>

<p>Also, with the exception of BIO 112, I will have already received placement through my AP scores for all of the classes mentioned above (unless where noted).</p>

<p>As a last note, I just want to mention the rigor of my last semester of High School so that someone who has been through Freshmen year already could possibly tell whether I'd be able to handle 5 classes throughout Freshmen year or not. These were essentially all classes at a very strong IB school (I will be receiving the IB Diploma) and I received a 4.0 unweighted.
IB English HL
IB/AP Chem 1
IB/AP Chem 2 (I essentially took both classes since Chem 1 would be way too easy and so that I could take the AP test, which I likely received a 5 on)
IB Spanish 5
Racquet Sports (oh so very rigorous, but fun)
IB/AP Physics HL (took both IB and AP C tests and will receive 5 on E&M and 4 as a worst case scenario for Mechanics; don't care much about IB)
IB Math HL (worst case scenario is a 6, amazingly easy two-semester course)
Complex Analysis (former Calc 3 teacher taught me)
Linear Algebra (taken at University of Colorado in Boulder)</p>

<p>As you can see, I don't really like not being challenged :P Anyways, I know this is a long post, but those are pretty much essential to presenting as much data as possible to come to a well-informed decision.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>P.S. Do we include workshops and labs in the course planning form online?
P.P.S. Ten minute thing seems to apply to Chinese as well, but it's before Physics :S So difficulty to make it applies there as well.</p>

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<p>An AP score of 5 in biology (or its IB equivalent) is the pre-req for enrollment in Bio 112. You will be able to enroll in the class with the permission of your advisor when you arrive on campus. Since you don’t have the pre-req, you will have to get permission from Dr. Platt <em>after</em> you’ve met with your academic advisor. (Dr. Platt will be around campus–try his office. Or leave a message with the dept secretary asking for an appointment. Getting into the class shouldn’t be a big deal–it’s a huge lecture.) </p>

<p>IMO, taking Bio 112 without taking its second half (which is Bio 113, not 114) is pretty useless if you really want the science coverage. The course is designed as 2 semester sequence. You’d only be covering half the material. </p>

<p>The 10 minute break between classes is sufficient if you don’t socialize too much on the way. The campus isn’t that big.</p>

<p>And yes, you do have to schedule workshops and labs. Both are REQUIRED portions of the courses and the university likes to start planning teaching coverage ASAP</p>

<p>Your courseload doesn’t sound too unusual–esp for ambitious kids majoring in science, math or engineering. D’s fall and spring schedules looked similar to yours. </p>

<p>BTW, be aware that not all freshman will get into the writing courses first semester. Half of them don’t get in until second semester. You’ll be assigned to a semester. No choice.</p>

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<p>Alright, thanks. As far as my question concerning the workshops and labs, yes, I know I have to take them along with the class, but what I meant was whether I had to include it in the course planning form, which is neither a pre-registration form nor registration form online since it only has 8 spots (which wouldn’t be enough obviously). Also, the amount of classes was also referring to the inclusion of the two semesters of Chinese, which are six credits per semester (and possibly a Philosophy course). It would be nice to fit in a CS class though…</p>

<p>Silly 3/4 typo.</p>

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<p>Cider,
If you have a successful first semester, you can petition your academic advisor to take an academic overload. That is, take more than 4 courses in a semester. UR allows you to take up to 22 or 23 credits per semester so long as you: 1) maintain your academic standing [ high GPA–usually they want to see you on the Dean’s List if requesting an overload] and 2) do not use your extra credits to graduate in less than 4 years. </p>

<p>I believe there is no extra tuition charge for the extra class. </p>

<p>RE: planning form-- you may want to include as many of the lab & workshops as you can on your planning form–a copy of it is what goes to your advisor in advance of your arrival on campus so he/she can be ready to approve your schedule. It also assists the university in scheduling teaching assignments.</p>

<p>You won’t be able to register for anything until after you meet with your assigned advisor during freshman orientation.</p>

<p>BTW, if you’re taking Chinese and philosophy–what’s your social science cluster going to be? As a science major, you’re required to take 2 clusters–1 in a humanity (philosophy and foreign language are humanities) and 1 in a social science (anthro, psych, soc, history, etc.)</p>

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<p>I think that’s what I’ll do along with adding any remaining ones in the comment box.</p>

<p>Hmm, for some reason I recall seeing them as being in separate sections, though you’re right, they’re in the same one. I’ll see if I can figure it out, then, though I don’t really like any of them particularly… Thanks.</p>

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<p>campus is very compact. even 5 minutes is enough.</p>

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<p>I don’t really get that… did someone at Rochester say that? 173 is linear algebra (offered in the fall), while 174 is calc3 (offered in the spring). if anything, you should take 173 and skip 174. but if you have any plans with a math minor, major, etc., i’d recommend not skipping 173 or 174, i’d hardly even recommend skipping 171/172. the purpose of the 170s series is to get you in the know on how to prove things while teaching you calculus/linear algebra. if you’re using AP/college credit to place out of everything, you might as well get credit for the 160s and then take 235 (or maybe 200 as well) if you want to learn about rigorous proofs.</p>

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<p>you don’t have to petition as long as your GPA in the previous semester was at least a 3.0. but you do have to petition to take 19 or more credits in your first semester there. you don’t need to get dean’s list (which is a 3.4 semester GPA) for an overload. (after first semester, overload is 20-23 credits, and anything 24+ you need written permission from the dean for.)</p>

<p>and if you want to take CS, if you haven’t done CS before, 171 is only offered in the fall. if you place out of 171 (AP/IB, programming experience, etc.), you can go right into 172 (data structures) in the spring. or if you have even enough experience to place out of that (I think you have to take an exam to place out of that one), you can go into 173 which is in the fall (sophomore year).</p>

<p>as for your question about being able to handle 5 classes… well like I said, you can only take >= 19 credits in your first semester if you petition. I wouldn’t recommend taking 20 credits or more in your second semester either because you’ll be a freshman – not that it takes a whole year and not just a semester to adjust to college life/academics, but your classes will be intro classes and you’ll have tons of recitations/labs/workshops/etc., which will severely cut into your time. I only took 20 credits once, last semester (I was a sophomore), and I only had two classes with classtime obligations outside of lecture. I had MTH164 which had a recitation, which wasn’t bad, just 50 minutes per week for recitation… or closer to 20-30 in reality, go in, talk about the HW for a few minutes, then take the weekly quiz and leave. my other such class was CSC172, which had tons of extra work. there were two online reading assignments per week, two labs per week (and occasionally I had to finish up a lab outside of the 2 lab sessions, but not that often), there were projects and lectures obviously, and a 2 hour workshop every week. I think that’s pretty excessive for a 4 credit class, but it’s what really put a drain on my time for all my other classes. (my other 3 classes were MTH200, MTH240, and CSC252.) so if you had 3 classes as it appears in your spring semester with recitations+labs+workshops, and then another class or two with just a recitation or workshop, that would be pretty brutal.</p>

<p>anyway, depending on what you want to major in, you could also put off a certain sequence for a year, or you could put off the humanities stuff for a year… you have 4 years, that’s plenty of time, and it also looks like you’re placing out of plenty of classes anyway.</p>

<p>there are also people who put off the writing class until after their freshman year.</p>

<p>you don’t need to put in which lab you want. most of those questions you don’t really need to answer to be honest. maybe whether or not you’re premed, etc., and then the language placement stuff if applicable is what’s important on those forms (if you’re talking about that orientation online form). you meet with your advisor with the other advisees during orientation, then you set up a one-on-one meeting, when you go over your courses… then your advisor removes the hold. you have to have the meeting regardless, telling them which lab session you’d rather be in for physics won’t make a difference to your advisor now (you don’t even have to tell your advisor which labs etc. you want to be in at the meeting, just which courses).</p>

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<p>The course guide says that MTH 171Q is Honors Calculus I, MTH 172Q is Honors Calculus II, etc. So MTH 173Q would be Honors Calculus III, not Linear Algebra. Unless they’re just being highly misleading, which is entirely possible, that’s what the course descriptions say. I’ve also already taken Linear Algebra at the University of Colorado in Boulder, as well (though it looks like it didn’t cover nearly as much as MTH 235 would). Since MTH 165 is a prerequisite for MTH 235, would you say that I should take it instead of MTH 163 if I were to do that MTH 235 path?</p>

<p>From the looks of it now, my current setup (with MTH 173Q) would be exactly 19 credits (MTH 173Q, PHY 142, BIO 112, CHI 101), and the second semester would reach 23 with the addition of CHM 132 (since each of those previous courses would be continued on effectively). This would most likely mean having to take the writing course sophomore year, as I’d rather not put off learning Chinese. Also, for the second semester, it would be 3 workshops/recitations and 2 labs (minus 1 for each first semester).</p>

<p>As far as majors go, the likeliest situation is a double major in Math and Physics.</p>

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<p>Cider–</p>

<p>You really, really need to talk with the math department about your placement. Course descriptions aren’t an adequate substitute for real, live advising.</p>

<p>Both the MTH 170Q series and MTH 165 will get you to MTH 235. How you get there depends upon your interests, your level of commitment and how UR’s math dept views your prior coursework. You need to schedule an appointment with the math advisor for as soon as you arrive on campus to discuss this. Bring your textbook and course outline with you.</p>

<p>Your proposed spring schedule look brutal, but doable. </p>

<p>I would, however, advise against attempting 19 credits your first semester. Living away from home is big adjustment. Some people make a graceful transition; some don’t. While my D frankly said that her first semester she was ‘unchallenged’ [her words]; she was glad to be a little bored. She saw alot of kids–many with more AP and IB credits than she had–crash and burn because they either lacked adequate self-management skills or came to campus thinking they knew everything.</p>

<p>BTW, please consider that D said her biggest time sinks weren’t her math and science classes–even with the required labs and recitations, but her humanities and social sciences. Lots of reading and writing. Learning Chinese is going to take more time than you anticipate. Fluency takes practice–and most of that practice will occur outside of language lab.</p>

<p>BTW, if you’re a math and physics person, why are you taking Bio? It’s not even a recommended course for either major. You might be better off taking your required writing class instead of Bio first semester. Freshman comp is a rite of passage. Something to bond over in the dorm…</p>

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<p>I will talk to someone with the math department when I get there, but I still would like to get a good feel of the overall picture so that I have at least a satisfactory idea of what I’ll be doing.</p>

<p>As far as the being away from family part goes, I’ve been away from my family for extended periods of time since I was pretty young and have been away for up to a month without any problems. Personally, I wouldn’t like to be bored much at all, as that’s what breaks of extended periods of time (like this) tend to be to me. Heck, my supplement essay was about how very little guidance I’ve had through high school (I chose all my classes on my own and did all my homework on my own without any parental guidance or requests that I do my homework, and it only truly affected me Freshmen year).</p>

<p>As far as humanities go, there’s going to be only this one, and since CHI 101 isn’t offered in the Spring, I have to take it in the Fall or wait another year, which is something I’d very much not like to do. </p>

<p>Because I did the IB Diploma and had to take so many useless, easy classes (along with my silly desire to not take 8 classes, which was stupid as I had too much time on my hands), I didn’t have the opportunity to take more than the required Advanced Biology I class (so I missed out on Bio II and Biochem). It was this that forced me to push Chem I and II into the same year as well. I won’t feel right at all as a scientist without having taken Biology.</p>

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<p>trust me, 173 is linear algebra, 174 is calc3. 164 is the non-honors calc3, and 165 is the non-honors linear algebra (but it includes differential equations… i’m not sure if 173 does or not). the most i’ve heard of is people placing into 173, and if you want to major in math I’d recommend talking to the math department when you get to school. I don’t know how much they’ll let you place out of. if you skip the 160s, I guess you could do 163 for differential equations if you need that for physics or something. or you could take 173 and 174 if you want to be a math major and don’t want to have to take 235. if somehow you do place out of 173 and 174 you should definitely take 235 and possibly even 200. I don’t know what you mean by instead of 163, though.</p>

<p>and you only have 2 recitations first semester? a lot of times (particularly for math classes) you just sign up for the class officially then there’s a recitation or workshop that you sign up for (but it’s not kept track of by the registrar’s office, so you won’t see it on the course schedules). to be honest, 23 credits with only one non-math/science class along with 2 labs and 3 recitations would be terrible.</p>

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<p>235 is waived if you take the 170s, actually.</p>

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<p>you’re not gonna get fluency from a language class or two… but language classes are extremely easy compared to virtually any math or science class. and other humanities/social science classes involve some reading, but the math/science classes take much more time even if you don’t have to read as many pages per class in them.</p>

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<p>I was talking about taking 165 instead of 163 as 163 isn’t a sufficient prerequisite for 235 while 165 is. </p>

<p>As far as recitation/workshop stuff, I’m only going by what you need to sign up for through registration itself.</p>

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<p>if you were going to get credit for 165 from your college class, then you’d have credit and you would have fulfilled the prereqs for 235… and 163 is pretty much useless unless it’s required for physics or some other science major, or if you dig diff eqs for some reason</p>

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<p>I think I’ve decided to go with MTH 235 as the most desirable scenario.</p>