Black Parents: Was I Wrong About Lehigh U?

Parents Forum
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<p>It's the one group that may have experienced similar thoughts and can offer some perspective. No different than getting opinions on countertops from someone who recently remodeled the kitchen vs asking your grandmother who never did any updating.</p>

<p>I find these threads to be very useful. Sending my minority (hispanic) daughters out in the world provides another layer of anxiety. We all want out kids to be safe and in an environment where they can thrive. We have spent years trying to shield our kids from the worst of societal stereotyping, yet attempting to prepare them for responding to it. Quite naturally there is a strong parental reluctance to put our kids out into the front lines. Who better to get advice from than those who have already been in our shoes?</p>

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<p>"whether or not Lehigh has a student body that is more rigid or restrictive in their thinking- to me is besides the point- although I haven't read the whole thread.
But by reading the title of the thread- which is addressed to not, freshman parents, or 1st gen parents- but to parents of one particular race- asking them if the school is exclusionary towards others of that race.</p>

<p>Perhaps I am overly sensitive in this area, but why wouldn't you ask this of any parent who is familar with the school? are they not able to discern bias directed toward or against others?" --emeraldkity4</p>

<p>Emeraldkity4: The short answer is "no." Even very progressive white people find it difficult to believe that other whites can demonstrate racist attitudes and biases--to the extent black folks and other minorities complain about it. </p>

<p>Look, I've been married to a white woman for 20 years. It took several years of being married to me for her to see what's obvious to me every day. She didn't realize just how bad other white people can be until she started walking around with mixed babies. </p>

<p>For white parents not married to an African American, there is one way you can fully understand our caution: Make your white child's college choices: Tuskegee, Fisk, Cheyney State, Texas Southern, etc. Then you'll worry about what we have to worry about, and you'll be asking the same questions: "Is the school racist? Will my child be harassed? Will she be happy? Will she be ostracized?" etc. etc. etc.</p>

<p>What doesn't occur to white parents: Unless they send their kid to Berkley or UCLA where Asians are in the majority (or close to it), they can be comforted with the knowledge that 70 - 98% of the other students will look like their kid. White parents don't have to send their kid to a predominately black school to get an education in the Ivy League or at a top ten LAC. Black parents don't have that luxury. </p>

<p>Fortunately, most of the top colleges/universities in this country skew liberal, so worrying about racial stuff isn't much of an issue for most black parents. But every black kid won't get into a top school, and may not want to go to a historically black college. So the worry begins about places like Lehigh that are filled with Ivy League rejects who have numbers that rise above good ol' state u. </p>

<p>My D is not going to get into Harvard or Yale, Columbia or Princeton. She's not even going to apply. It's a waste of time. But she's got a shot - just a shot - at Cornell and Brown, Wesleyan and Oberlin. If she doesn't get one of them, next in line within our geographic parameters (northeast) are the Bucknells and Lehighs, in terms of academic selectivity and excellence, and she would rather go there than good ol' state u. She's visited Lehigh TWICE and, to my surprise, likes the school. But she's young and naive and we've sheltered her up to this point. I don't think she has an idea how mean and hurtful people can get over something as petty as race. I do. Hence my concern about Lehigh's propensity for regularly making headlines in the local papers about race problems.</p>

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<p>okay, I'm not a parent.
It doesn't sound like you were wrong. But, that's not the same as saying you're right. You chose to live in eastern Pennsylvania. Why are you surprised by the existence of racism less than thirty-five miles away from home? You should be proud of your daughter for thinking she can ride it out.</p>

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<p>Take a look at some schools like American, Smith, Skidmore, Vassar, Bard, Case Western. Are you looking for schools with a lot of diversity, or is your D used to a predominantly white environment?</p>

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<p>Did anyone read this article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer? Hate</a> crimes up on campuses, group says | Philadelphia Inquirer | 11/15/2008 "There have been hundreds and hundreds of these incidents around the country, everything from Barack Obama effigies hung from nooses, to racist comments posted on various Web sites to really threatening e-mails," said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes. "What this represents is a real backlash by a certain subset of the white population." Bucknell and Lehigh are both mentioned.</p>

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<p>Any ideas, Kathip, why those schools would have those problems? What subset of the white population is attracted to those schools, both selective, highly regarded universities?</p>

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<p>Rich, smart, white boys? At least that's the general perception around here. Okay, I'm probably being unfair. Our school district is overwhelmingly white and kids do go to Lehigh and Bucknell from here and they definitely have to be smart. While Obama carried Lehigh county, he did not carry my township and I'm less then 10 miles from Lehigh. However, being white does not usually mean that you are a racist and I'm embarrassed that something so rude happened so close to where I live. The kids that I personally know at Lehigh are really nice smart kids.</p>

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<p>kathiep the article you cited above from the Philadelphia Inquirer DOES NOT mention Bucknell. Do not slander a university just to make a point.</p>

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<p>I just looked at the article. I always thought of St Joe's as a nice college, with nice kids. It does go to show that these sorts of things can happen anywhere. Maybe those schools with very small African American populations are at risk for this sort of thing. I know that Fordham seems very diverse and I have not heard of such issues there.</p>

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<p>some people are just dumb
For instance the students @ Reed- consider themselves liberal- aware- intelligent- inclusive all those " friendly" words.
However- at Halloween one year- students tied " dummies" in the trees- to be ooh scary
The effect was - that the bodies looked like they were " hung"- or * lynched*.
I believe, that the connection- did not even occur to them.
Which is scary enough in itself.</p>

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<p>Back again Plainsman--
I too am disgusted with the racial incidents at Lehigh. But I would guess/hope that they are limited to a small number of racist j<em>ck</em>sses. I had read earlier that Obama was largely favored by the student body, and found this on an area political blog re: Lehigh's official polling place:</p>

<p>"South Side Bethlehem Precinct at 75% Turnout at 7:15 PM
Early this evening, I visited the Litzenberger House, located in south Bethlehem at 4th & Webster. When I arrived, there were hundreds of students standing around outside, listening to guitar music. Four out of every five were wearing Obama T-shirts or pins. The line was so large that it was broken into five separate parts. Vans were stopping to drop more people off, mostly students."</p>

<p>You might also recall that the University did not "invite" McCain to speak or hold a rally there, nor did they refuse or fail to invite Obama. The candidates sought out area venue space, like other acts and groups do. </p>

<p>That said, though-- I'm in agreement with the others who suggest looking elsewhere. </p>

<p>There are SO many other schools out there! Why is Lehigh still an issue? The thing I miss in these posts is your daughter's "voice" - i.e. her take on all this. Is Lehigh still on her short list? If so, what is it that attracted her to the school? Maybe you could search for some of the same qualities in schools that are more to both your liking. If you are willing to branch out a bit farther, distance-wise, you should have no trouble putting together a list you can both be happy with.</p>

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<p>Ispf72: Lehigh is still on my D's list. That's why I'm so distresed. Not every kid is anxious to put hundreds of miles between them and Mom and Dad. Our kids love us and don't want to be far away. The distance preference is not mine; it's her's, although it pleases me. Lehigh is close (35 minutes) and it is a respected academic institution, a private university with ideal size (less than 5,000 undergrads) for her. It's also a school sought out each year by hundreds of employers, something the LACs can only fantasize about. We've only been in PA a couple of years (job change for me). My D was raised in a 98% white midwestern upper middle class environment. The difference between it and Lehigh: it wasn't racist where we came from. </p>

<p>No one responding to this post and criticizing me (not you) has answered what is really my main question: Why does Lehigh keep making headlines about race problems? I don't see other highly selective institutions making these headlines. What is it about Lehigh? That was my original question. I've offered some theories that few have responded to: too few minorities; too many white males (55% male, 45% female student body); significant draw from unfriendly parts of New Jersey and Long Island; complacent and unsympathetic administration; unusually conservative faculty. I don't know. But there has to be an explanation. Bethlehem, PA is not Oxford, Mississippi. </p>

<p>So, I'll ask my question over again for those that missed it. Am I wrong about Lehigh? If I am, then why do they keep making headlines?</p>

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<p>I may have gone overboard when I did this:</p>

<p>My daughter was going to apply to a college that had had a little trouble in the past. I phoned the admissions office and spoke to the minority recruiter. I said she was going to apply because the school looked like a good fit for my daughter, she liked xxx program and was interested in their sports programs. BUT, I had read about these incidents and wasn't sure I was comfortable. What did the recruiter have to say about the attitudes on campus and why should I feel good about sending her there? I can't remember if I called the office for diversity and asked the same thing.</p>

<p>Part of my research before doing this was to read the online issues of the school newspaper to see how the incidents were covered. Universal uproar is to be expected but I was surprised at how some of the students interviewed did not understand why it was offensive and the historical context surrounding it.</p>

<p>So, my advice is to phone the college and ask some pointed and uncomfortable questions.</p>

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<p>I may have gone overboard when I did this:</p>

<p>My daughter was going to apply to a college that had had a little trouble in the past. I phoned the admissions office and spoke to the minority recruiter. I said she was going to apply because the school looked like a good fit for my daughter, she liked xxx program and was interested in their sports programs. BUT, I had read about these incidents and wasn't sure I was comfortable. What did the recruiter have to say about the attitudes on campus and why should I feel good about sending her there? I can't remember if I called the office for diversity and asked the same thing.</p>

<p>Part of my research before doing this was to read the online issues of the school newspaper to see how the incidents were covered. Universal uproar is to be expected but I was surprised at how some of the students interviewed did not understand why it was offensive and the historical context surrounding it.</p>

<p>So, my advice is to phone the college and ask some pointed and uncomfortable questions.</p>

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<p>"why do they keep making headlines?"</p>

<p>You see these headlines, Plainsman, because you live 35 minutes from the school.</p>

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<p>Plainsman-- Can't answer that one-- I don't think there's any one thing-- I think all the factors you mention might in some ways contribute to what's been happening. Also, while that part of the state seems to be a political mix, there ARE some extremely right-leaning people in that area. My neighbors are retirees who did a lot of door-to-door campaigning for Obama in the area (though NOT at the university), and said they met with some of their worst incidences of hostility there. I shouldn't generalize, though. We live on Long Island, which voted overwhelmingly (over 2-1) for Obama, yet in our town, we were in the minority.</p>

<p>I had (and still have) high hopes for Alice Gast. I think she will do her best, but at the same time it's hard to put a finger on exactly what needs to be done, esp. when you're unable to identify the perpetrators. She has her work cut out for her. As twomules suggests, it certainly can’t hurt to call the school and discuss.</p>

<p>As for your daughter still liking Lehigh-- that's a tough one. Is she applying this year? I definitely think it's wrong for a parent to choose for their child, but if I was in your position these things couldn't help but concern me too.</p>

<p>As for distance-- short of emergencies, I think distance from home becomes much less or an issue once they set foot on campus and settle in. Brown, Haverford and Wesleyan sound like great choices, but-- if she likes the feel of a more traditional university, with the diversity and liberal lean you are looking for, I still think you might consider Tufts. The student body there is quite politically and socially active. Also, if the election seems to be an indicator of mood on campus, check out "Tufts Obama Wins" and "Tufts Students Celebrate Obama victory" on youtube. Scenes like these happened all over the country of course, and I'm so glad their generation wasn't disappointed. It's very heartening. Also, has she looked into any of the Wash DC schools? Georgetown, GW? Just wondering--</p>

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<p>Oops, I did misspeak about Bucknell. Sorry, I read the original from the newspaper quickly and thought Bucknell was also cited - my mistake. No slander intended.</p>

<p>I canvassed for Obama here in my primarily Republican town and had only one instance of hostility and it wasn't especially anti-Obama. She seemed to think that we were responsible for the onslaught of political mail and robo-calls. And I wouldn't be surprised if locals weren't all that friendly towards people from oos canvassing - it was kind of weird.</p>

<p>I think that dr. Mom has an excellent point about why you are hearing about things going on at Lehigh - you live close enough for it to be of interest to people in the area. The Philadelphia Inquirer article that I mentioned talks more about LaSalle, a Phil. area college, then it does about Lehigh.</p>

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<p>Plainsman, my D is also bi-racial. Five years ago, I moved us 60 miles, still in the metro Atlanta area. We moved to the county that Oprah had her town hall meeting back in the '80's where the "n" word was used frequently. Everybody I knew thought I was crazy to move her to this county. My only response, I have faith in our youth. Was I taking a chance, yes, but my faith in this generation panned out. D had not one racial incident ever happen to her. This is in a county that had a billboard years ago that said "N*<em>*, don't let the sun set on your black a</em>*in Forsyth County.</p>

<p>I understand your fears, but don't project them onto her. If she feels Lehigh is the place for her, support her decision. She can always transfer.</p>

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<p>My two cents:</p>

<ol>
<li>You hear more about incidents at Lehigh because you live close by.</li>
<li>Your daughter is not you.<br>
You should have a real heart to heart talk with her about your concerns. In the end, however, it should be up to her whether she should apply to Lehigh, knowing all the pros and cons and knowing her own self. If she does apply, she can change you mind by May 1 anyway.</li>
<li>Besides concerns over atmosphere, you should also bring up the fact that once she's on campus, she won't be coming home often, so distance should not be a big factor. I should know: my S is within 20 minutes' walk from our home, but it could be two hours; drive away. The only advantage is that his roommates use our basement as free storage!
So do encourage her to apply to other schools as well.</li>
</ol>

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<p>All of you are correct, of course, that my proximity to Lehigh increases the likelihood of hearing negative stuff. But we live even closer to other colleges and never hear about this stuff. Both Muhlenberg and Moravian are closer than Lehigh. Muhlenberg is less than 15 minutes from my house and is probably less diverse than Lehigh. Muhlenberg: 2% AA, 2% Asian, 3% Hispanic, 90% white. 76% of the student body is from outside PA, so plenty of opportunity there for the right wingers for New Jersey to infest the campus, yet you never hear about any racial "incidents." </p>

<p>Right now, here is my D's list of colleges:</p>

<p>Amherst (reach - did not visit)
Swarthmore (reach - visited twice)
Cornell (borderline reach - visited; two-night overnighter)
Brown (borderline reach - did not visit)
Wesleyan U. (borderline reach - did not visit)
Oberlin (possible - visited)
Lehigh (possible - visited twice)
Penn State-University Park (probable - visited)
Ursinus (probable - visited)
Dickinson (probable - visited)</p>

<p>I can't convince her to apply to any guaranteed safeties. Penn State and Ursinus are close to that category, I suppose. </p>

<p>A part of her wants to attend the highest "ranked" school on that list, whichever one that happens to be (we don't really know), which could be difficult to figure out because the schools are so different. LACs, Ivy League, top private unis, and a big, highly-regarded state university with the cheapest tuition. She feels that way because of how hard she's worked to be ranked in the upper 10% of her class at a 92% white, suburban school. She wants something to show for it. But her modest standardized test scores will limit her options severely, I'm afraid. Even prep classes didn't help. Being a URM will make help make up for some of that, but I don't really know. </p>

<p>Lehigh could be the "highest" school on her list that admits her. Combine that with her naive desire to "change the world" and she would, if admitted, likely choose Lehigh. I'm really worried about that. Other than Swarthmore, Lehigh is the only school she's visited twice. But Swarthmore is a pipe dream, in my opinion. That's why Lehigh looms so large in my mind right now. When I see these headlines. OMG, not my little girl!</p>