Brother Suspended, Need Advice!

<p>
[quote]
He does go out basically every weekend, but there's no way he does during weekdays.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, let me get this right. The first time he got caught (not the first time he drank), he was taken to hospital. It sounds like he continued to drink every weekend ("goes out basically every weekend" reads like it means exactly that) until he was walking home in such a way as to arouse suspicion and get breathalyzed. He flunked the test so he is suspended for a year. He is lucky.</p>

<p>I was an alternate juror at a trial where a man was convicted of drunk driving. It was his second offence and he had his licence suspended for a year. To him, it looked like financial ruin since he absolutely relied on his picktup truck to get him back and forth from construction sites. This young man has a choice to sit out the suspension for a year and return to Syracuse, go to a state university, or, if he is accepted, transfer to Tulane. He's getting off lightly.</p>

<p>hmmm. the actual college policy. keep in mind due to lawsuits I suspect that if the college thinks you are doing life threatening behavior - last section, extreme intoxication-they'll send you home to avoid a lawsuit if you hurt yourself.
n.b. it should not have been a slap on the wrist if this was implemented.</p>

<p>Category
Use or possession of alcohol under
prohibited circumstances
First Violation
Warning/residential probation/
disciplinary reprimand /Project CARE
referral/Educational project(s)
Second Violation
Disciplinary probation/Project CARE
referral/Educational project(s)/
Substance Abuse Prevention and
Health Enhancement Office referral
Third Violation
Indefinite suspension for a minimum
of 1 academic year
Category
Supplying alcohol to underage person(s)
First Violation
Disciplinary probation/Project CARE
referral or community service project(s)
Educational project(s)
Second Violation
Indefinite suspension for a minimum of
1 academic year
Third Violation
Not applicable*
Category
Driving any motor vehicle while intoxicated
or while under the influence of
unlawful drugs
First Violation
Indefinite suspension for a minimum of
1 academic term
Project CARE referral or community
service project(s)/ Educational projects
Second Violation
Expulsion or indefinite suspension for a
minimum of 1 academic year
Third Violation
Not applicable*
Category
Extreme intoxication or other substance
abuse related behavior posing
a substantial risk to the health and wellbeing
of self and/or others
First Violation
Disciplinary probation Residential relocation
(at the discretion of the case
manager or hearing board). Substance
Abuse Prevention and Health Enhancement
Office referral. Project CARE referral
and/or other educational project(s)
Second Violation
Indefinite suspension for a minimum of
1 academic year</p>

<p>"Disciplinary probation Residential relocation
(at the discretion of the case
manager or hearing board). Substance
Abuse Prevention and Health Enhancement
Office referral. Project CARE referral
and/or other educational project(s)"</p>

<p>Exactly, they didn't do that.</p>

<p>The Daily Show time!</p>

<p>"Exactly, they didn't do that.'</p>

<p>Yup. It must have been extremely bad. Much worse than portrayed by the OP, or related by her brother. (at a minimum, he was supplying alcohol to others).</p>

<p>Qwilde -</p>

<p>I can't do the numbers for you for high school age students in Italy. But I do have pretty good numbers for what happens with 18-22 college students in the U.S.</p>

<p>44% binge drink at college in the past two weeks. (Some, of course, used to binge drink but, as you say, they simply gave it up or became "responsible alcohol consumers" or even total abstainers.) There is no direct link between binge drinking and alcoholism - it's just as you say - young folks doing dumb things. </p>

<p>Now, of that 44%, slightly more than half become "heavy drinkers" while in college (alternatively defined as bingeing 3-4 times in a two week period, or two or more drinks nearly every day.) So we are down to 23%. Of these, around 60% (a little bit less overall, but higher for whites and males) are either alread y alcoholics or will become alcoholics in the next 20 years - so 15% - one of out of six, give or take. </p>

<p>So you are right. Most of your friends did not become alcoholics, and will not become alcoholics. But roughly 1 out 3 of those who binged regularly with you will; or 1 out 6 of all your friends. What's the difference between those who do and those who don't? From what we can tell, besides having plenty of opportunity to drink, mostly likely genetic. As you said, you had no problem refraining. Some aren't so lucky.</p>

<p>We have excellent data on how to reduce the risk of future alcoholism. Raise the age of first use. A person who starts drinking at 15 or earlier has a 4X greater chance of becoming an alcoholic as one who starts at age 20. Now, some of this is self-fulfilling prophecy, of course - some one with a proclivity for alcoholism is more likely to seek it out.</p>

<p>Rates of alcoholism, liver cancer, cirrhosis, etc. are much higher in the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway than they are in the U.S. The biggest difference is they begin to drink earlier. They are about the same in Italy, and lower in some Meditteranean countries - different genetics (just as African-Americans have lower rates as well.)</p>

<p>What I don't understand about colleges is that most of them have biology departments that know a heck of a lot more about genetics, and together with anthro/sociology/psychology departments, about behavioral risks than I do. So why can't they be depended upon to do a little education?</p>

<p>Second serve, :) </p>

<p>"Exactly, my point. In an immediate response to the first incident, the school should have provided necessary assistance i.e. counseling and punished him accordingly and reasonably. Instead they did nothing to help and when he inevitably drank again they resorted to abruptly suspending him for an entire year, which might ultimately destroy his self-confidence.</p>

<p>Now do you know for sure they offerred no help? I think you may be reaching to a conclusion that isn't occurring on campus across the country. I don't know of a school (I would bet BYU too) that doesn't have a drug & alcohol counsulor as full time admin. I would bet the farm that all around campus are programs and literature that would help this kid. I think you're selling the school a bit short. How much should they do for 1st offense? I am sure they have a policy in writing in how they deal. Do you want me to look it up or will you? :) </p>

<p>"Initially, they hadn</p>

<p>Yes, I am very aware of predisposition towards addiction. Ultimately, it is what has undermined the "gateway" theory regarding marijuana.</p>

<p>"Rates of alcoholism, liver cancer, cirrhosis, etc. are much higher in the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway than they are in the U.S. The biggest difference is they begin to drink earlier. They are about the same in Italy, and lower in some Mediterranean countries - different genetics (just as African-Americans have lower rates as well.)"</p>

<p>I would have to see these statistics before I formed an opinion, as to whether it's relevant.</p>

<p>"Raise the age of first use."</p>

<p>I disagree. Mostly throughout England, Italy, and Germany children have been exposed to alcohol at a young age. They are aware of what they can handle and what they cannot. Italians at the age of twelve usually have a glass or two of wine at dinner, so they understand alcohol's effects. Due to this they do not load up on alcohol once they are of legal age- sixteen in Italy for all drinks and 16 in Germany for beer- unlike the Americans studying abroad that I previously mentioned. Also, there are less alcohol related crashes because they have been able to experience the debilitating effects of alcohol before obtaining their driver's license.</p>

<p>You are right though; colleges should be conducting more research.</p>

<p>And I'd written such good stuff and it appears to be gone. whaa? </p>

<p>Oh well, qwilde please read more of my posts and you'll find your assesments of me aren't even close. but that's Ok. </p>

<p>Man, and I had some good stuff written down too..,. Second serve, :) </p>

<p>Hey actually saved some of it.</p>

<p>"Exactly, my point. In an immediate response to the first incident, the school should have provided necessary assistance i.e. counseling and punished him accordingly and reasonably. Instead they did nothing to help and when he inevitably drank again they resorted to abruptly suspending him for an entire year, which might ultimately destroy his self-confidence.</p>

<p>Now do you know for sure they offerred no help? I think you may be reaching to a conclusion that isn't occurring on campus across the country. I don't know of a school (I would bet BYU too) that doesn't have a drug & alcohol counsulor as full time admin. I would bet the farm that all around campus are programs and literature that would help this kid. I think you're selling the school a bit short. How much should they do for 1st offense? I am sure they have a policy in writing in how they deal. Do you want me to look it up or will you? :) </p>

<p>"Initially, they hadn’t penalized him or even to bothered to help, which subsequently attenuated his behavior and in a sense even condoned it. The school conveyed the message that it was just a trivial matter that could be brushed aside. " </p>

<p>I didn't see that or read that anywhere. How do you know they didn't try to help? And to what respect can a college interdict? </p>

<p>"You keep assuming he has a problem. MOST COLLEGE STUDENTS DRINK. Most just don’t get caught. So, if the school really wanted to practice fair treatment they would have to suspend half their student population."</p>

<p>Really? they drink? You obviously missed many of my posts on this subject.:) We dominate fathers weekend beer pong to the point of near legend on my S campus. And yes, we started when he was 19. </p>

<p>And you hit it on the head again.! Most don't get caught! :0 cause they're not so stupid to get that drunk and pass out in a dorm stairwell, where they are so messed up that an aid car hauls them to the ER. </p>

<p>You still seem to think of me as some anti alcohol parent WRONG! I differ from some here on this issue. However I am an anti STUPID behavor parent. If you read my posts on frats, you'll see dumb and stupid and the definitions. </p>

<p>The first time this kid got so wasted he ended up at the ER was Dumb. To be caught a second time and suspended for a year... sorry that's stupid. Or a problem... but if your going to dig your heels in and tell me he doesn't have a problem.. then he is stupid..no? </p>

<p>"Also, I am not stating that he doesn’t have a problem, he may very well do, but that is not for us to decide and is definitely not for us to pass judgment, especially since you probably drank underage as well…don’t fool yourself. " </p>

<p>Again, you've dismissed the illness side of this situation. So that leave me with thinking he's stupid. A reasonable person would have taken it much easier knowing in a few months they would be of legal age. It's not that he drank, it's that he went to excess, got caught, didn't learn and got caught again. </p>

<p>“But the first time... he ended up in the hospital, so he had to be pretty messed up”</p>

<p>{Not necessarily. I have read of multiple instances in which students have been capable enough to walk home, but cops have escorted them to the hospital anyway.}</p>

<p>That wasn't this time though. Please don't change the parameters to fit your arguement. </p>

<p>{Absolutely and I value my kids lives over yours. That's normal. May not be nice but it's normal. When you have kids, you'll feel the same way. </p>

<p>No, I won’t.}</p>

<p>just wait... if you still feel that way can I have your kid's liver? Mine should be shot by then and I'll need a replacement to continue my lifestyle. What's your blood type? :)</p>

<p>“If your kids live with the possibility of a draft to support a war we don't believe in, you'll value your kids and your neighbor's kids lives ahead of someone else in another country too. That's called being a parent. I don't want my kids or my neighbor's kids to die so an executive can make a buck in arms sales.”</p>

<p>"Sorry, but that is your own fault. You, the American people, elect presidents the likes of Bush. You know what such men are capable of and yet you provide them with unlimited power anyway. You have no problem with the president sending young boys to their death and even worse imploring them to kill others (often people that are defending their country), but as soon as it might affect you, you become defensive. If America stopped ****ing the world off i.e. invading other countries and slaughtering their people and walking around with a cavalier “holier than thou” attitude it wouldn’t find itself in the predicaments it’s now in."</p>

<p>You copied me...</p>

<p>{I’ve lived on American military bases almost my entire life (twelve of seventeen years) and lost friends and my family has been affected by the advent of wars for generations, so I’m sure I know much more about sacrifice than you. "</p>

<p>OOOK. We'll just let that one pass. </p>

<p>{“your neighbor's kids lives ahead of someone else in another country too.”</p>

<p>We are all humans; we are all entitled to life no matter where we live. No one life is more valuable than another. We are all born equal.}</p>

<p>yup. very true. However when your older and have more experience you'll understand an anti war stance a bit better.</p>

<p>cheers.</p>

<p>""Do you want me to look it up or will you?"</p>

<p>How mature of you. Let's patronize a person who doesn't agree with your comments, which will ultimately lend yourself more credibility."</p>

<p>Since the OP went into detail and did not describe any form of counseling on the school's part then I am to assume such services were not offered.</p>

<p>""Do you want me to look it up or will you?"</p>

<p>Why is that so offensive?</p>

<p>WE both were making an assumption. I was assuming they had a written policy, you assumed differently. </p>

<p>Someone else posted it. </p>

<p>We don't know what the kid or the school did on the first time. We also don't know how far apart the two incidents were. We don't know if he attended or not, or blew the whole thing off. I have a strong feeling if they hospitalised him, they followed up. It's called liability. You actually could conclude that they met their legal obligation to this kid by kicking him out. Had they skipped this second one off and during a 3rd time he dies from alcohol poisioning they quite possible are liable. </p>

<p>I'm really not trying to pick on you as I don't win a prize for it, I'm really not trying to patronize you at all. Especially at your age. But could you possibly consider that you don't know alot about colleges or their obligations and liabilities? Hey I don't think I do, but I have a basic understanding of litigation and by not bouncing the kid out of there they faced more risk for HIS behavor then they wanted to pay for.</p>

<p>Extreme intoxication or other substance
abuse related behavior posing
a substantial risk to the health and wellbeing
of self and/or others
First Violation
Disciplinary probation Residential relocation
(at the discretion of the case
manager or hearing board). Substance
Abuse Prevention and Health Enhancement
Office referral. Project CARE referral
and/or other educational project(s)
Second Violation
Indefinite suspension for a minimum of
1 academic year</p>

<p>"a substantial risk to the health and wellbeing
of self and/or others"</p>

<p>Are you sure you want to continue to defend this guy's actions? It looks very strongly that the school followed the rules, they didn't ignore him. They did what they said they would do. I still think the kid is stupid or has a problem or both. </p>

<p>And while it is fine to feel empathy for him and his situation, unless he cleans up, he's just another f up out there, not really worhty of your concern. Care for the people who actually want to try and help themselves. The others basiscally are dead, they just don't know it yet.</p>

<p>“just wait... if you still feel that way can I have your kid's liver? Mine should be shot by then and I'll need a replacement to continue my lifestyle. What's your blood type?”</p>

<p>As I said, I value all the life the same...no matter how much I may love a person. Imaginary borders also do not detract from the importance of human life, which you seem to think they do. </p>

<p>But hey, what's a poor Iraqi child's life actually worth anyway? It can't be as much as an American’s because that would be admitting they are equal? </p>

<p>A Holocaust survivor when presented with the option, by a Nazi official, of his son being killed or ten other innocent people chose for his son's throat to be slit after hugging him. Are you saying that he didn't love his son?</p>

<p>This seems to be similar to your reasoning:</p>

<p>1 American life = 100 European lives = 1,000 Asian lives = 10,000 South American lives = 100,000 African lives</p>

<p>“anti war stance a bit better”</p>

<p>I just love condescension, especially when it comes from supposedly mature adults. I know the anti war stance very well thank you very much.</p>

<p>“And you hit it on the head again.! Most don't get caught! :0 cause they're not so stupid to get that drunk and pass out in a dorm stairwell, where they are so messed up that an aid car hauls them to the ER.”</p>

<p>Oh, so as long as they don't get caught it's ok? Silly me :).</p>

<p>“I'll need a replacement to continue my lifestyle”</p>

<p>I can just feel the love.</p>

<p>I find the title quite fitting:
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070701155_pf.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070701155_pf.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>IMO spending a year or so away from college and working is a great idea. He could go back to Syracuse (or elsewhere) as a more serious, focused student. It worked for me.</p>

<p>links to sites on college alchohol use and other related issues are here.
<a href="http://www.higheredcenter.org/track/list.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.higheredcenter.org/track/list.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Hey guys, sorry I haven't responded in so long...I'm a university student so I am pretty busy:) </p>

<p>My brother has always been somewhat of a free-spirit. I, on the other hand, can't imagine getting kicked out of school. He might be the only person who is fine with being suspended. He just found a house in Atlanta that he is renting out for $700 a month. He is going to try to take classes at Emory or Georgia State as a non-degree student. The house is in one of the best parts of Atlanta, but it's really really tiny (like a 2 room house built in the 1920s) with no air-conditioning or heating. He's probably going to get a job at a restaurant and work to pay for his rent and apply to several colleges. He's 20, already half-way done with college, and has a decent GPA. I think he will be fine. </p>

<p>As for the disciplinary aspect of the story, I have no idea. All I know is that I saw the report and it seems that being hospitalized twice is very very serious at Syracuse. That obviously would make sense, but I don't understand why the University didn't at least put him on probation first. The first time he pays a fine, the next time he gets suspended. They should have put him on probation first. That's my personal opinion, at least.</p>

<p>While being put in a hospital sounds extreme, that's University policy for someone who can't pass a sobriety test. It doesn't mean he was dying, it just means he was drunk. His BAC was .146, which is definitely drunk, but not exactly a dangerous state to be in.</p>

<p>As for Marite's comments at the top of the fifth page, while I realize that my brother is lucky to not be in jail or something worse, I don't think it is fair to compare this situation to a DUI. He has absolutely no criminal record and he was simply walking home. He put no one (except maybe himself) in danger.</p>

<p>I think the reason they sent him home is fear of lawsuits. This is becoming more common and people asking for multi-million dollar damages when the student is seriously injured or dies. Because of this students are run out of school asap. There was a sad thread here about kids thought to be very depressed or suicidal and being locked out of their dorm and hustled out the door, so to speak.</p>

<p>"As I said, I value all the life the same...no matter how much I may love a person. Imaginary borders also do not detract from the importance of human life, which you seem to think they do. </p>

<p>But hey, what's a poor Iraqi child's life actually worth anyway? It can't be as much as an American</p>

<p>Greenface:</p>

<p>The guy whose trial I attended had two violations. Same thing with your brother. He broke the rules of the college twice. Or at least, he got caught twice. And he was underage. I still think he's lucky. He could have been expelled.
Yes, it's fear of lawsuits. But depression is a disease. Drinking to be point of flunking a breathalyzer--unless one is alcoholic, in which case one ought to be treated and this is best done from home--is a matter of irresponsible (or, in other words, stupid) behavior.</p>