<p>I think DUI's are completely different. Sorry.</p>
<p>“
"As I said, I value all the life the same...no matter how much I may love a person. Imaginary borders also do not detract from the importance of human life, which you seem to think they do. </p>
<p>But hey, what's a poor Iraqi child's life actually worth anyway? It can't be as much as an American’s because that would be admitting they are equal? "</p>
<p>Please find any point where I have used a political boundry? C'mon read what I am saying. My kid... my kid is the most important to me. How do you know I'm not Canadian? Who's Canada at war with? </p>
<p>Your going for a point here that doesn't have a basis in our dialog. I don't disagree with you about a nationalistic basis. I don't think you kill anybody to liberate them. </p>
<p>"A Holocaust survivor when presented with the option, by a Nazi official, of his son being killed or ten other innocent people chose for his son's throat to be slit after hugging him. Are you saying that he didn't love his son?</p>
<p>This seems to be similar to your reasoning:"</p>
<p>Actually that would be identical to my reasoning... again the age difference. Do you really know what's happening in the situation you've cited? I don't think you do. </p>
<p>Let me help a bit. Your situation is one where they are going die anyway. This father did this because he valued his son's life more than 10 other people. I don't expect you to understand...yet, but think about the senario you've created. </p>
<p>Now if it was a choice between freedom for his son and the lives of 10 others, you have a real problem. Certain death now vs. certain slow death isn't a real difficult choice. Death vs. freedom, now you have a hard choice. </p>
<p>{1 American life = 100 European lives = 1,000 Asian lives = 10,000 South American lives = 100,000 African lives}</p>
<p>Please... show me where I have ever written this. C'mon. </p>
<p>It is not a political statement. It's a parent's statement...know the difference. </p>
<p>{“anti war stance a bit better”</p>
<p>I just love condescension, especially when it comes from supposedly mature adults. I know the anti war stance very well thank you very much.}</p>
<p>Except when another person expresses in a way you can't comprehend because your hung up about another issue. </p>
<p>{“And you hit it on the head again.! Most don't get caught! :0 cause they're not so stupid to get that drunk and pass out in a dorm stairwell, where they are so messed up that an aid car hauls them to the ER.”</p>
<p>Oh, so as long as they don't get caught it's ok? Silly me .}</p>
<p>Which side of this fence are you on? You've spent most of your posts explaining why underage drinking is OK in your opinion, now it's not? </p>
<p>Try this concept on.. everything in moderation. Now beat that one up.:)</p>
<p>{“I'll need a replacement to continue my lifestyle”</p>
<p>I can just feel the love.}</p>
<p>Can you feel the joking around? Your expressing yourself from a what you'll think you'll be situation. Chances are when you are really an adult with children, you'll feel differently. Don't feel bad it happens to all of us eventually.</p>
<p>"As for the disciplinary aspect of the story, I have no idea. All I know is that I saw the report and it seems that being hospitalized twice is very very serious at Syracuse. That obviously would make sense, but I don't understand why the University didn't at least put him on probation first. The first time he pays a fine, the next time he gets suspended. They should have put him on probation first. That's my personal opinion, at least."</p>
<p>How do you know they didn't? How much time passed between the two events? </p>
<p>"I saw the report and it seems that being hospitalized twice is very very serious at Syracuse"</p>
<p>I would think it is very very serious anywhere. What about at home? How are your folks dealing with this? </p>
<p>"While being put in a hospital sounds extreme, that's University policy for someone who can't pass a sobriety test. It doesn't mean he was dying, it just means he was drunk. His BAC was .146, which is definitely drunk, but not exactly a dangerous state to be in."</p>
<p>A .146 is very messed up. Almost twice the legal limit. He has a problem. I am not a teatotaler or anti alcohol advocate, but that's not a little overconsumption, that's alot. </p>
<p>To blow those kind of numbers is excessive. While I don't know the alcohol posioning levels ( I think above 20%) and someone here (mini?) will know. He's pretty close. Your kind of phoo phooing his behavor as no big deal. It is a big deal at those levels. Could you be rationalizing a bit because it's your brother?</p>
<p>I agree with Opie. A .146 is a very high blood alcohol concentration that shouldn't be minimalized or rationalized away. I wish your brother all the best in pulling his life together, but he does have a problem that needs to be recognized and addressed.</p>
<p>.146 is almost double the legal alcohol limit in most states
I agree that it is pretty messed up- even if he was of age.</p>
<p>All states in the US have adpoted .08 as the legal limit for intoxication. Some US states will arrest individuals driving with Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of less than .08. Additionally, some states have zero tolerance laws that apply to individuals under the age of 21 years old and are designed to allow law enforcement to arrest these individuals at substantially lower levels of Blood Alcohol Content (BAC).</p>
<p>0.40 - 0.45 will usually kill you. 0.08 is the legal limit for drivers (the data actually suggest that 0.06 or above usually impairs driving, but political compromises and all.) 0.146 is pretty high - if he is 160 pounds and average metabolism, likely 7 beers or 7 standard drinks (college kids almost never drink "standard drinks") in less than two hours. Of course, he was obviously not tested at peak concentration. So, for sake of argument, figure 9-11 (again, depending on weight and metabolism). </p>
<p>It is extremely, extremely unlikely that a 9-11-drink drinker did it only once in the past two weeks (it happens among freshmen who puke, but that's about it), and that there is isn't a larger drinking pattern involved. Could be, but it just isn't very likely.</p>
<p>Now let's put this in perspective. Roughly half the students at my alma mater drank this much in the previous two weeks; at Duke a little higher, and where 9.4% of the student body had an alcohol blackout in the past two weeks, and 29% in the previous year. Roughly 75% of these student bodies drank in the past two weeks, though a third of those a bit more moderately (though we know from experimental data that both the amount actually drunk and the number of drinks is consistently underestimated by those doing the drinking.)</p>
<p>However, as noted, binge drinking itself is not an indicator of an underlying alcohol "problem" (other than a campus that is out of control, and a college administration that cares little about the future lives of its students.) It is heavy drinking (bingeing 3-4 times within two weeks, or near daily drinking) that is more likely an indicator of a problem, and associated (roughly 60%) with current or future alcoholism. This is where an alcohol assessment might be useful.</p>
<p>Opie,
You are arguing with a 17 year old boy, please stop talking back to him and maybe he will go back to the regular boards.</p>
<p>greenface, this link is to a chart to measure BAC. Also click on the BAC comparison over time. A rookie drinker could possible make this error once (that's only my opinion because it happened to me the first time I drank, and I can guarantee you I never made that mistake again, and I was falling over embarrassingly drunk), but your brother had already been taken to the hospital, so he obviously is not a rookie. I do hope for you and your family that he seeks out alcohol counseling. </p>
<p>"Opie,
You are arguing with a 17 year old boy, please stop talking back to him and maybe he will go back to the regular boards"</p>
<p>Well, first I don't think the poster is male. </p>
<p>I don't want to ignore the kid because I think that is just mean. That's saying their thoughts don't matter or aren't important enough to consider. I may come off as mean in my replies, but I am considerate enough to respond and actually ask questions or present something to consider. </p>
<p>Besides don't you remember 17? I had different views of the world than I do now. Having a friendly disagreement with an adult isn't such a bad thing. Maybe we'll both learn something...</p>
<p>I think one thing to keep in mind is that schools are adopting some pretty strict alcohol policies - and this kid hit strike #2 - resulting in his being made to leave school. Students are encouraged - in some cases made to - read the school policies and to abide by them or face the possible outcomes that the school has set down in black and white.</p>
<p>Some offenses can be as simple as being in the presence of alcohol and being under 21 - it can result in probabion or points against the student, etc..... and some schools have 1st and 2nd offense punishments - depends on the school.</p>
<p>This kid obviously failed to abide by the rules set by the school and is now facing the consequences of his actions - good for the school for abiding by their own rules. His life is NOT ruined - but has taken an alternate course - and he now has choices to make to back on track.</p>
<p>College kids need to be completely aware of what their actions can effect themselves - and others as well - and be willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.</p>
<p>Maybe a change of schools will be a good thing - who are we to judge - maybe a year off and working would be a good thing - if he really wants to return to Syracuse - then he will pay the piper and wait out his suspension - hopefully he has learned a strong lesson and won't repeat his actions.</p>
<p>A good time for soul searching and getting ones life back on a positive track :) A big key to he OP's situation is that the brother is under 21 - so things tend to effect under-age drinkers a bit differently - especially at college - since the legal age is 21 - the schools can apply any appropriate rules they wish to since underage drinking is a breach of law :(</p>
<p>"As for the disciplinary aspect of the story, I have no idea. All I know is that I saw the report and it seems that being hospitalized twice is very very serious at Syracuse. That obviously would make sense, but I don't understand why the University didn't at least put him on probation first. "</p>
<p>Being hospitalized even once for an alcohol problem is very serious because the problem could have resulted in your brother's death. Being hospitalized twice indicates an extremely serious problem. I think that the college wants your brother to face up to his alcohol problem and get some kind of help before he dies due to an overdose.</p>
<p>I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone referred you to the CC member who died of alcohol intoxication last year. The student had posted even on the parents boards saying that he drank heavily, but felt he could handle it. Parents -- including one who is a doctor who has dealt with alcohol intoxication -- told him that he was risking death. The student scoffed at the parents, saying he knew how to handle his liquor, and anyway, his friends would help him if his drinking caused a medical problem.</p>
<p>The student (who went by the name "Lucifer" plus some numbers afterward) ended up dying of alcohol intoxication while visiting friends at University of Virginia. The student was a Cornell freshman. You probably can still find the actual news stories about his death (including one that detailed his long history of alcohol problems) by Googling. You also can find info in the CC archives.</p>
<p>It's wonderful that you love your brother and wish to help him. As part of your help, please let him know that his drinking is causing serious problems, and could lead to his death or other serious health problems. You also may wish to check out Al-Anon, the free, anonymous support group for people who are concerned about a loved one's drinking.<a href="http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html</a></p>
<p>"I think the reason they sent him home is fear of lawsuits. This is becoming more common and people asking for multi-million dollar damages when the student is seriously injured or dies. Because of this students are run out of school asap. There was a sad thread here about kids thought to be very depressed or suicidal and being locked out of their dorm and hustled out the door, so to speak."</p>
<p>Absolutely it's fear of lawsuits. Colleges often either look the other way or give you a slap on the wrist for "minor" alcohol infractions. Otherwise, as others have stated, they'd risk losing a huge number of their student population. But if the infraction is at a level where there are possible liability issues at stake, they take action, and often, regardless of whether it is a first offense or not. </p>
<p>I have been reading this thread with interest since it's in many ways related to my S's current situation. As I've recently posted elsewhere, S with Aspergers just got a deferred suspension - which was getting off lightly, in his case - as a result of removing and discharging a fire extinguisher which caused the alarm to go off in his dorm. First offense. Infrequent drinker (if we believe what he says). The only way school officials knew that this was alcohol-related is because he told them he had been drinking, and that the alcohol had been provided by his roommate (of course, nothing happened to the roommate since he wasn't "caught"). </p>
<p>Hopefully S has learned his lesson, now that he has seen how seriously the school takes some offenses, and also now that he can no longer live in the dorms and is not allowed to enter any of the dorms on campus. He's also being required to go through substance abuse counseling and do community service (he also needs to write a 10-page paper which in effect would be a rewrite of the school's fire safety training/procedures and alcohol education).</p>
<p>But what's the lesson learned by all the other students? Don't get caught. And don't admit to anything. S has gotten no support from any of the other "friends" he hung around with--they all just think he was "stupid" for having gotten caught, or in his case, having owned up to what he did. Not for drinking. Sure, this is a good time to try to make new friends, but that is sometimes easier said than done for some people. And dealing with possible depression has now moved to the top of my new concerns for this kid.
Many of us may agree that in the case here, the brother most likely has a more serious problem requires counseling or treatment, and also that his behavior was serious enough to warrant the sanctions. </p>
<p>But I'm not sure that even the threat of suspension really has much effect on the attitudes of a lot of students. When it comes to alcohol and young adults, in general, the solution cannot just be legal consequences, whether that be school sanctions or criminal charges. And it cannot be alcohol education after a drinking problem has developed (this will not necessarily guarantee that the individual's attitudes towards drinking will change other than perhaps short term) because unfortunately as long as they think they can get away with it, they will probably continue to do so. And it's that attitude, that willingness to take risks because they can and because they believe that bad stuff will not happen to them, only to others, which I think leads to binge drinking and thus the more likely possibility of more immediate or serious harm to the individual or those around them (and thus possible liability to the school).</p>
<p>This is unfortunately not such a black and white issue, like a traffic violation, where you can just say, you should have known the rules and therefore if you break them, you get what you deserve. It seems to me that as long as drinking is socially acceptable among adults, we will always have problems with the attitudes towards drinking that our young people are apparently adopting in large numbers. Unless there are more efforts to educate them earlier and to make them understand the consequences, effects and realities of alcohol before it becomes a problem - and before they even take that first sip.</p>
<p>"He probably is going to give Tulane a shot and hopefully Mom and Dad won't force him to go to our state school."</p>
<p>Let's see. Kid gets booted out of expensive private school that his parents have paid for and the most-feared consequence is that he might have to go to the state school instead of another expensive private school.</p>
<p>Only on CC!</p>
<p>"suspension - which was getting off lightly, in his case - as a result of removing and discharging a fire extinguisher which caused the alarm to go off in his dorm. First offense. Infrequent drinker (if we believe what he says). ...But what's the lesson learned by all the other students? Don't get caught. And don't admit to anything. "</p>
<p>To me, the lesson would be don't break the college's rules about alcohol use.</p>
<p>One could make your same argument for any time a person is charged with a crime that they committed with others' help. Typically, the people who helped them aren't rallying to the defense of the person who has been charged. However, that doesn't mean that it was wrong to charge a person with breaking the law. Sensible people also don't respond to arrests by thinking that the lesson is to do a better job of hiding what one is doing wrong.</p>
<p>“Let me help a bit.”</p>
<p>Sod off!</p>
<p>“Your situation is one where they are going die anyway. This father did this because he valued his son's life more than 10 other people. I don't expect you to understand...yet, but think about the senario you've created.”</p>
<p>Yes, the father probably did value his son’s life over ten people, but he also realized it would be selfish of him to have ten people killed to save his son. It is our natural instinct to protect our offspring, even to the death, and yet he didn’t. Why? It wasn’t to spare his son of pain, but it was a moral decision to save others.</p>
<p>“Please find any point where I have used a political boundry? C'mon read what I am saying. My kid... my kid is the most important to me.”</p>
<p>You stated that you would prefer a child in another country to die rather than a child in your own. So, that would be a political statement, as they are not your children, so you share no parental obligation and therefore you evidently value your nation’s offspring more. I vehemently disagree with that and ergo my previous statement is applicable “Imaginary borders also do not detract from the importance of human life, which you seem to think they do.”</p>
<p>“Which side of this fence are you on? You've spent most of your posts explaining why underage drinking is OK in your opinion, now it's not?”</p>
<p>No, I think it is acceptable; however, you don’t. I’ll spell it out for you: D U P L I C I T Y. </p>
<p>I am a guy by the way.</p>
<p>Scansmom you are one of the few who actually seem to have a firm grip on the issue. I applaud you for looking at the bigger picture.</p>
<p>This week's edition of The Mirror is dedicated to being Parkhursted (Dartmouth speak for being suspended). </p>
<p>In the article:</p>
<p>What not to do: advice from the parkhursted<br>
Four students share what they did -- from Vespa destruction to BB gun sniping -- and what they learned </p>
<p>
[quote]
One junior, who wishes to remain anonymous, felt the one-term suspension he received for a DUI during his sophomore summer actually helped him to reevaluate his situation. "I'd spent two years moving progressively further down the road of substance abuse. I was blacking out at least weekly, hurting myself when drunk. [During the term off] I got a handle on myself and on the issues that were causing me to drink so much in the first place," he said. The student used his time off at home to think about his life, and heal himself. "I've got a plan for life now and am not the aimless drifter I kind of was for a while," he said. "Everyone's different, but I'm really glad I went home. It helped me rebuild some of the trust that I'd broken with the family."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Personally I think that his parents are either living in denial or enablers by setting him up in his own apartment and paying for him to attend classes because it sends a message at least to me that they are still "rewarding" bad behavior. Anyhow, whether OP's brother has a drinking problem or the victim of dumb luck, I hope that he does take the time to reflect on what has happened and look at it as a teachable moment to do things differently.</p>
<p>Yeah thanks for the advice everyone. I don't really understand the comment about me and opie arguing...I don't really think that we are. I'm a 19-year-old female thanks.</p>
<p>that did not refer to you greenface, qwilde & opie have been having a discussion back and forth.</p>
<p>I haven’t read most of the posts here. So maybe this has already been said. But, is there a problem with the OP’s brother taking off for a year, getting a job, getting some insight on alcohol abuse with a counselor, and then going back to Syracuse a changed man? Were it my own kid, I think I would encourage this instead of having him just hightail it to Tulane without dealing with the destructive issues in his life.</p>