<p>I was wondering if you guys could help me narrow down these two choices into one. I don't want to spread myself too thin when applying to the BS/MD programs and I've decided that I would apply to either Brown or CWRU, but not both.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I understand Brown has an amazing UG, but not the greatest MD program. However, CWRU is the opposite, with a weaker UG but an amazing MD program. Which would prove to be more beneficial in the end?</p></li>
<li><p>Also, how are the financial aspects of both schools? I've read that CWRU provides a generous financial aid package, but I haven't read much about Brown, are the financial aspects similar or which school trumps which?</p></li>
<li><p>How are the major decisions? Brown states that it is very flexible with majors as long as the pre-med courses are taken. But what about CWRU? Let's say, I wanted to major in Sociology or Astrology, would that be allowed?</p></li>
<li><p>Do both programs allow you apply out to another medical school? Lastly, for CWRU, it says that the MCAT is not required, but if taken it must be above 33. What happens if the MCAT score <33?</p></li>
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<p>I think Brown overall would provide a better education. The undergrad is significantly better and even if it is ranked lower for medial schools, the difference is only marginal in terms of quality as most medial schools are fairly similar. Now there are some aspects that make Case PPSP more preferred. Case does a good job of providing all it’s PPSP students full scholarships. In contrast, Brown only provides need-based aid. Financially, PPSP is the better choice. Like Brown, PPSP is very flexible with choice of study, and I believe you can study anything you want as long as you complete the requirements. In terms of applying out, I believe that Case Western may let you do so (not sure). Taking MCAT qualifies you for merit scholarships. If you get less than 33 the med school apparently has the right to revoke your admissions. That is another plus financially though–if you do well you can also catch a break for med school. Overall, the key difference between program choice is probably a financial one. Both will prepare you very well, it’s a matter of how much you have in terms of financial resources/ whether it’s a concern. Both programs, however, are extremely competitive. If you want to have a chance at getting one, it would really be in your best interest to apply to both given that these are probably the most competitive programs. For example, for PPSP, they only accept 25% of interviewees (which is probably much smaller than the entire applicant pool).Don’t worry about spreading yourself too thin. Good luck!</p>
<p>“Do both programs allow you apply out to another medical school? Lastly, for CWRU, it says that the MCAT is not required, but if taken it must be above 33. What happens if the MCAT score <33?”
-Why in a world one will take MCAT if it si not required? If you think that you might get Merit, scratch that, there are tons of applicants with advanced degrees, they are in front of everybody else because Med. School wants to lure them in. I mean there are PhD (from Harvard too), Masters of Schience (including JHU), lawyers,…etc. applying to a Med. School regular route.
Another point that is completely not clear, why would you want to apply out?
Third point to consider (if it is important, I do not know), Case is much higher ranked Med. School than Brown.
The last (not the least), I believe that PPSP are on full tuition Merit for UG portion.<br>
Believe me, you want to have a free UG eduication if you are planning for Med. School.
However, I do not understand why are you “choosing”, you have no choices, you are NOT accepted.</p>
<p>I did not intend to make myself seem pretentious if any of you thought so, the only reason I asked about the “choosing” is because I’d rather be prepared now then later and have to worry about millions of other issues further along the line. I’d rather be prepared and have an easier time making a decision IF the need should arise.</p>
<p>You will not be prepared, I can guarantee you that…for any decision making in regard to the (arguably??) most selective programs (across ALL fileds) in the country…, apply to as many bs/md as you can and as broadly as you can…but keep in mind that getting into Northwetern HPME and Case PPSP (just 2 that I am familiar ) is much much harder that to the respective Medical School via Regular Route.
Best wishes!!!</p>
<p>Hey, I just got accepted to Brown’s program, so maybe I can help with some of your questions.
The one that would be more beneficial for you is based on your preferences. If you want a liberal education, Brown’s Program in LIBERAL Medical Education would be a good fit. If you want to do sociology, Brown would be great because you are ENCOURAGED to explore subjects like SOC during undergrad. I don’t know much about CWRU. I was about to apply to CWRU because of the free application fee, but decided not to because it didn’t have a very strong East Asian Studies/languages program in comparison to Brown.</p>
<ol>
<li>If CWRU does give full tuition like MiamiDAP mentioned, then that’s definitely a plus. Brown gave me a very good fin aid package, albeit not a full ride or anything. I think somebody with <60k income gets a full ride if admitted though (you would have to look this one up yourself).</li>
</ol>
<p>3.Brown is flexible, yes. Although it should be noted that Brown only makes you take ONE semester of orgo, instead of the standard two!</p>
<p>4.You can apply out of the PLME, but you immediately lose your seat at Alpert Medical School. Other BS/MD programs I was accepted to had similar stipulations. </p>
<p>Case is a phenomenal school…it is not easy for a non-IVY to compete with the IVY “legend” which is only partially real…at some point, the quality of student is the determining factor in the endeavor, not the reputation of school.</p>
<p>“Case is a phenomenal school…it is not easy for a non-IVY to compete with the IVY “legend” which is only partially real”
-There are sooooo many from Ivy and other Elite colleges and graduate programs at Case Med. School along with some number of kids from state publics. As Case Med. is more reputable than Brown, I bet Case might have higher number of graduates from Harvard…Berkeley… etc. along with a good percentage of accepted after Grad. School. I am not familiar with Brown Med. as close and I did not research any statistics, strictly speculation based on knowing Case SOM very well.</p>
<p>Brown UG is very expensive but the med school tuition is about half for people in the program. Only Harvard, Yale and Princeton are the ivies that cut UG tuition to 10 % of parents AGI if under 180k. So for example a family with 150 income pays 15k tuition plus R&B.</p>
<p>Brown does not so for most families you are getting 10k to 15k off the total at the most. </p>
<p>Also with thousands of Val’s and Sals applying for the 70(?) Spots it is much easier to get into Harvard UG for biology</p>
<p>P.S. if your parents make under 60k you get the aforementioned big aid but if it is over 100k which is not a lot in the NYC area you get the 10 to 15k amount.</p>
<p>Brown only requires 30 credits a year times 4 years while Yale you average 33 each yr.</p>
<p>Had a college visit and came back totally unimpressed by CWRU. They have spruced up the exterior of the campus, campus grounds. But the buildings, the staff, their presentation about the University, totally unimpressed. Their medical school may be good, but their undergraduate program is not the greatest. We were so unimpressed that we may drop CWRU off the list of schools for Under graduate education. </p>
<p>Each person to his opinion, this is my opinion for those who can not visit the school and are applying based on the hype for CWRU on this message board.</p>
<p>Visit is not the same as actually being there.
Well, Cleveland is NOT the imressive city, unless you are from Midwest and used to something familiar. The campus is not impressive at all, there are much much better ones even in Ohio. I am not familiar with UG program aside from the fact that D’s best friend was in PPSP and loved it. She ended up graduating Summa Cum Laude and has applied to a free (for her, because of the parent job) Med. School. I am also very familiar with the Case Med. School (as I said before) and students there. Very very imressive class, great opportunities, program geared towards students more than some others higher ranked programs, very high average Step 1 score (somewhat because of the program) and what can beat having rotation at the Cleveland Clinic?<br>
I am sure there are many good things that could be said about any American Med. School. And again, who would count birds in a bush? Both PLME, PPSP (HPME,…some others) are harder to get into than the top Ivy UGs. So, discussion about choosing without having acceptances in your hands is the same as counting birds in a bush.</p>
<p>I hear CWRU’s medicine program is very good. </p>
<p>But the same can not be said about the Under graduate portion of the CWRU. If you look at their SAT/ACT/GAP scores of accepted students, there is a large gap between those accepted to their PPSP [Medicine, Law etc] programs and their usual under graduates. </p>
<p>I am not sure about the actual quality of under graduate education, but their presentation of their UG program during the visit left much to be desired, in combination with their accepted students caliber in general it makes you wonder about the quality of education.</p>
<p>There is a stark difference between Northwestern [ranked in the upper 10’s] under graduate program and CWRU’s [ranked 36 or so] under graduate program. I guess that is why they give out full tuition and offer the combined medical program to attract the high scoring students. </p>
<p>This is not to diss CWRU, but when I went to see CWRU, went with high expectations after reading so much about CWRU on this web site. Unfortunately it did not live up to the expectations at least for me. [It is not Cleveland, it is not the spruced up grounds of CWRU, but the education at CWRU].</p>
<p>"there is a large gap between those accepted to their PPSP [Medicine, Law etc] programs and their usual under graduates. "
-At ANY UG that has a combined bs/md, and much much more than at CRWU, “there is a large gap between those accepted to their” bs/md programs and their usual under graduates. Everybody who gets accepted to ANY bs/md possess very high stats along with long list of activities, both medical and others. They also possess great communication skills that allow them to be successful at Med. School interviews while in HS. NONE of them, absolutely zero number are your average student, or for that matter your average valedictorian, they have to have more than that.<br>
At the end, one should keep in mind, that opportunities that one will have in UG, are the opportunites that are earned by the student. They are NOT there for everybody else. However, they do exist at every single UG, including the lowest ranked unknown places. It will depend only on student and not the place. One thing is absolutely true though. If one is unhappy with the place, then the outcome is not going to be good. So, it is good, tamtiger, that you did not choose CRWU if you decided that you would not be happy there. But many who went there, did very very well because they loved it.</p>
<p>KEU, instead of viewing two applications to combined programs as being spread too thin, in this world of extreme competition a person with a burning desire to be a doctor might seek out 8 or more programs they would actually consider attending. Why you ask?? So as to get maybe 4 interviews and perhaps 1 or two acceptances.</p>
<p>Also lay on 1 or 2 UG safeties with full merit tuition for good measure.</p>
<p>Yea, I’ve decided to apply to both cause well, just being safe now.</p>
<p>But anyways, I’ve been reading the post and I had a question, are ACT scores just a legitimate to use? I know that they’re accepted, but I’m guessing that they’re not viewed in the same manner, nor equally compared to SAT?</p>
<p>Lastly, do you have any suggestions for the UG with full merit scholarships? I dont know how much financial aid I’ll get cause my dad makes enough that we’re considered middle class, but I was wondering if I should still apply because with me, it’ll be supporting 3 kids through colleges and grad school.</p>