<p>I'm pretty sure (as sure as a high school kid can be) that I want to go into medicine, and that choice is being challenged before college even begins! Currently, I like Yale a lot better as an environment, but I don't dislike Brown either. But to choose Yale would involve giving up on a medical school admittance, which is not easy to receive. Any thoughts or advice or comments would definitely be appreciated (especially if they come before May 1!) Thanks :]</p>
<p>Yale kids with fast-track acceptances won't have any troubles. If you prefer Yale, go to Yale.</p>
<p>go to brown...if you want to go into medicine having the stress of med school applications is soo nice</p>
<p>Are you actually giving up Brown med school? Couldn't you apply later?</p>
<p>Thanks for the quick replies!</p>
<p>@bluedevilmike - fast-track acceptances? could you explain that?
@pearapple - That's the major argument for Brown right now. It's so enticing!
@h-bomber - no, you're right, but i'm giving up the current acceptance. and a later acceptance, should i give it up now, would be contingent on my performance as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Fast-track, meaning students who have already been admitted to the BS/MD -- students who are very likely to be able to do so again, in other words.</p>
<p>It is first and foremost important to go to the school that is the best fit for you because you'll be spending the next 4 (and possibly 8) yrs there. However, to be honest, I couldn't give up the Brown thing b/c that's an unbelieveable deal. The only trick is, you can only be so sure you want to go into medicine right now. -- But being admitted to Brown med school before you even start your undergrad classes is kind of like saying "Here's a silver platter, kid - eat up."</p>
<p>um i vote brown.
that program is very difficult to get into. i was talking to an admissions officer one day about that program, and less than a hundred kids get in.
congratulations! :)</p>
<p>oh by the way...dont get me wrong. i love yale! this is just a great opportunity that i think you should consider</p>
<p>The selectiveness of a program, in and of itself, is a very poor reason to actually go there.</p>
<p>Brown. A lot less stress for you.</p>
<p>My son had to make that choice last yr and he chose PLME. He loved both schools. He had spent two summers at Brown and loved the experience, the facilities, the professors, and the location. He knew what living there would be like (keep in mind you'll be in Providence for 8 yrs). His major, neuroscience, is a popular major at Brown and not so much at Yale. In the end, I think the freedom of the open curriculum was a better fit. WIth the guaranteed program, he won't need to spend all that time with studying for/taking MCATs, writing apps, researching/visiting schools, etc. He would rather devote that time to other things. For instance, he hopes to study abroad which is sometimes tough to do as a pre-med. When he sees how stressed out other non-PLME pre-meds are about their grades, he appreciates having that guaranteed acceptance. But PLMEs still work hard - it's in their nature. He says he's happy with his decision and Brown/PLME has lived up to his expectations...</p>
<p>But you can't go wrong. Yale is a great school and my son really enjoyed his visits there and I'm sure, he'd be happy at Yale if that's where he ended up. The environments are somewhat different so make sure to go to admitted students days at both schools. Don't choose Brown simply for the guaranteed program - make sure you like Brown and will take advantage of all the school has to offer.</p>
<p>that is an awesome choice to have to make :)</p>
<p>Brown PLME!</p>
<p>Exactly what BDM said. If you're the kind of student that can get into a program like PLME, then you will be one of the students that will get into medical school the usual way (assuming you still like medicine at that point). Not only that, you will have many more options in that you'll be able to apply to a number of schools and not be restricted to one.</p>
<p>I believe Brown PLME allows you to switch out to the regular undergrad prgram if it turns out you do not want to pursue medicine. Additionally, you can apply to other medical schools if you do not want to stay at Brown for medical school. Seems to me the PLME gives you the most flexibility and freedom. You also do not have the stress of being premed.</p>
<p>To expand on BDM's comments:</p>
<p>The kids who are accepted into PLME tend to be at the very top of the applicant pool. If anyone can feel confident about getting into med school four years later, it should be them. Combine that with the very high admissions rates for Yale undergrads who apply to medical school, and going to Yale is not nearly as risky as it might appear. You are going to work hard at either place in college, and for the rest of your career as a physician, so that should not be a consideration. When you are in med school, you will have to stress about your performance. If you were not the goal oriented-get the work done type, you would not have been admitted to two such competitive options.</p>
<p>I don't know anything about the undergraduate major in neuroscience at Yale, including whether they even have one. I am sure that Yale students, in droves, go into medical school and the clinical neurosciences, and a significant cohort goes into graduate school in neuroscience. One does not need an undergrad major in neuroscience to do this.</p>
<p>If you are fairly sure that you want to study neuroscience as an undergrad, then you should look carefully at the undergrad program at Yale. It sounds like you have already done this for Brown. You have time. Contact admissions at Yale and ask them about it. They will give you some very general, nearly useless information. But, they will also tell you who to contact in neuroscience for more information. </p>
<p>Find out how many students major in this at Yale, what they do afterwards. Then get pushy and contact a few of these students (can probably find them on the department website, or the department can identify some for you) and ask them what they think of the program. This will be far from a comprehensive survey, and take what your hear with a grain of salt. But they could give you useful information that you would not otherwise know. For example, are the three top teachers among the professors all leaving? Is the main neuroscience building a dump, scheduled for disruptive renovation during your entire time there? Are they in the midst of a massive expansion of the neuroscience faculty? General expressions of dissatisfaction or joy might not mean much.</p>
<p>Just remember, many, perhaps most, students major in something different from what they anticipated when in high school.</p>
<p>Similarly, Yale admissions should be able to give you hard facts on medical school acceptances for Yale undergrads- they get this question a lot.</p>
<p>To get into medical school you need high grades and MCATs. I am going to guess you had high grades and SATs, or you would not have been admitted to Yale and PLME. So odds are you will be in good shape 4 years from now from either place.</p>
<p>the one caveat to afan's very good points is that the high rates of students going to med school at yale (or non-PLME brown) does not include those that are actively weeded out. difficult pre-med classes like organic chemistry are graded on a curve and less than one third of a group of already very select students will get an A. a B in organic chemistry hurts a lot in medical admissions and a C is almost game over. so if a school boasts a 90% admit rate to med school it does not include those who fell off of this curve and were discouraged from applying. plus, what happens to the 10% at yale with good grades that still don't get in?</p>
<p>the security of being guaranteed a spot in medical school shouldn't be underestimated. it's not about how hard you are willing to work. it's about having the freedom to pursue secondary interests without having to worry about outperforming your classmates in orgo</p>
<p>
[quote]
I believe Brown PLME allows you to switch out to the regular undergrad prgram if it turns out you do not want to pursue medicine. Additionally, you can apply to other medical schools if you do not want to stay at Brown for medical school. Seems to me the PLME gives you the most flexibility and freedom. You also do not have the stress of being premed.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly, and for those reasons, I would vote for Brown. </p>
<p>Look, Yale is better than Brown, but not THAT much better. We're not talking about the difference between Yale and some no-name 4th tier school here. This is Brown we're talking about. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I have to take exception with those posts who have stated that somebody who is good enough to get into Brown PLME will assuredly get into med school coming out of Yale. While I agree that that's probably true, the fact is, you never really know. The fact is, the med-school admissions process is something of a random process, and some people who by any reasonable metric should have gotten in sometimes don't. </p>
<p>As a case in point, consider the following data regarding premeds from Berkeley. You will notice that of the graduating seniors from 2006 who applied to med school and had GPA's of higher than 3.9 and an MCAT above 35, a whopping 31% got rejected from every med school they applied to. Those are elite grades and MCAT scores by any measure, yet even so, not all of them got admitted. </p>
<p>Career</a> Center - Medical School Statistics</p>
<p>Now, granted, that was an unusual year for those particular high-caliber Berkeley students. And certainly, it may have had to do with other factors. Perhaps they flopped during the interview. Perhaps they submitted bad essay answers. Perhaps one of their recommenders secretly hated them and decided to spike their application packet with a terrible rec. Many things could have happened to have caused these people to be rejected. But that's precisely the point. Shi* happens sometimes. That's why guarantees are so valuable.</p>
<p>PLME changed their policy with last yr's class and I believe you are no longer required to maintain a 3.0. Brown doesn't actually calculate a GPA but let's face it, it's not very hard to do (he got all As, so he knows it's a 4.0). </p>
<p>PLME requires you to take a basic set of 'pre-med" classes and you are required to get A or B in some of them (I believe those are Bio classes but I'm not really sure). I know the info is there on the PLME website if you want details. </p>
<p>There is a good deal of freedom in course selection but despite what people think, a student at Brown doesn't get to just take whatever they want; they need to fulfill the requirements of PLME and the requirements of their major. Granted some majors have less requirements but science majors use up a big chunk of their courses for their major. Outside of those requirements though, there are NO core courses, no general ed classes, no distribution requirements to fulfill.</p>
<p>I agree with what others are advising. Don't go to an undergrad program you don't want just to have the guarantee. Why be miserable for 4 years? I doubt you will do your best academically or socially. My son realized Brown was the only (combined program) school he wanted to attend WITH or WITHOUT the guarantee. So, it came down to Brown/PLME or Yale or Duke. All great choices. I believe he'd be happy at all three but for different reasons. He just felt the Brown/PLME was a win/win for HIM. Others who have different priorities would choose differently and they would do so wisely.</p>
<p>dcircle has a point about not underestimating the guarantee. My son has commented on how stressed out the non PLMEs are compared to the PLMEs. Although PLMEs are still working toward As, it's not the end of the world if they receive a B. Now that doesn't mean they slack off, but their life is less stressful. My son has stupidly (in my opinion) chosen to take 4 science classes this semester (orgo, 2 neuro classes and physiology) and is finding it a tough go. I can only imagine how crazed he would be as a non PLME. But then again, at Yale, he wouldn't have put himself in that position. BUT he likes the freedom to choose his classes and wouldn't have it any other way.</p>
<p>I would never advise any premed to take 4 science classes in a semester. Way too much work, way too much stress. You need time to digest and enjoy the science, not spend all your energy just trying to survive.</p>
<p>I am not underestimating the assured admission in PLME. Just reminding everyone of the odds. Yes, people go to Yale, or other top colleges, and have a lousy academic record, and are off the med school path. Yes, people go and are convinced they don't really want to go to medical school. Could happen to anyone, and there are very few people at Yale who barely qualify academically. Someone has to be a the bottom of the curve, etc. BUT PLME people are selected to be those who will be at the top. And at Yale, you don't have to be that close to the top to get into medical school.</p>
<p>I am not sure how much Yale's high percent acceptance is due to weeding out, vs the fact that virtually all of them were top students coming in, so they get sky high MCATs and very good grades in college.</p>
<p>I got the impression the OP preferred Yale. If so, that is a strong argument in its favor. If it is a toss up between Yale and Brown, absent PLME, then PLME trumps.</p>
<p>Sakky. Something weird about that result. Back when I was in undergrad, they warned about a phenomenon that hit the very top students. These people had done extremely well in college, but thought they were so great that they applied only to Harvard and Stanford, with Hopkins as a safety, and seemed surprised when they did not get in med school. The next year they listened to the advisers, applied to a range of places, and got acceptances. By that chart, those Berkeley students would have been better off dropping a few gpa points and MCAT points and joining the 10/10 people with weaker records.</p>