Several students I am tutoring are applying to them. I would assume that many high school students would want to get into medical school immediately. How hard are these programs to get into? Do most people planning on being premed apply?
The combined programs are very selective. For example at Boston University many of the BS/MD admits are also admitted to Ivy League schools.
These programs (even at the lower tier schools) are more competitive than the most competitive undergrad programs. Many of the lower tier schools use them to attract kids who would otherwise be at Ivy+ schools.
You’ll notice that Northwestern and Brown are the only top 20 undergrads with such programs.
They used to have a program at Johns Hopkins. I new a someone who transferred from Vanderbilt after one year into a BS/MD program. Think they mainly wanted him for an athletic team.
I looked at the list and a couple of the programs are with med school on offshore island, which is sort of funny. I would assume the Brown and Northwestern programs might be at least as hard to get into as top Ivies. Not only would you be into med school, but into a high ranked one.
I have worked with students applying to those programs. I am currently working with someone who is extremely motivated and under pressure from her parents, who is working on SATs and SAT IIs for those programs. I told here she should be able to get into med school eventually, whether or not she gets into one of these programs. I was wondering how hard they are to get into. Are they as hard to get into as lower Ivies for undergraduate?
As I said above, a united states BS/MD program is as hard, if not harder, to get into as ANY school in the country. PLME and HPME are significantly harder to get into than HYP. Even the combined programs at schools like Western Kentucky are arguably more competitive than HYP. Easily on par with them.
Yeh, I work with students applying for these, and I have to be tactful about their chances.
Seems strange to go to a combined program at Western Kentucky rather than HYP, as you should get in from HYP, and if not should have plenty of other opportunities.
I personally don’t like combined programs generally but the argument to doing a lower tier UG BS/MD program vs. going to HYP and applying to medical school is the guaranteed admission. Even at schools like HYP, a significant chunk of the freshman pre-meds get weeded out prior to the med school application stage, and even at the application stage, 10-15% of the HYP med school applicants don’t get into any medical schools. Add in merit aid opportunities the ivy league can’t do leading to lower debt burden and you can see how going to a lesser school in exchange for less debt and guaranteed medical school becomes more appealing than going to a top school and having to maintain a high level of success/go through the application process.
The reasons I’m not a huge fan are several
- If for any reason you decide you don’t want to be a doctor, now you’re graduating from the lower tier school vs. graduating from HYP and if I don’t have any sort of guaranteed next step, it’s clear where I’d rather be.
- Many programs have GPA/MCAT minimum requirements that aren’t significantly lower than what you would need to be competitive for med school anyway. Brown for example has no MCAT requirement and a 2.0 GPA requirement for advancing on - that’s a true guaranteed admission to medical school. I’ve seen some programs go as high as 30 (85th percentile) and 3.5, that’s basically the national average for medical students. That’s not really a “guaranteed admission.”
- As you said, the students who are successful enough in high school to be competitive for a medical school admission will probably be able to get into med school 4 years later anyway.
For successful medical school Asian applicants, the average GPA is 3.73 and MCAT is 32.8. Therefore, it makes sense for Asian applicants to pursue combined programs. Also, students, who change their mind about becoming physicians, could transfer out of these programs to higher ranked universities if they maintain high GPA, extracurricular activities and have proper motivation to transfer.
Aside from career issues, you might gain something in terms of education, sophistication, or whatever going to an Ivy school or such. On the down side, it could be a difficult experience, as top undergraduate schools can be extremely intense, have cutthroat premed atmospheres, and you might have difficulty with snobbish people there.