<p>I am relieved that most of you say there is no ostracism for not drinking. </p>
<p>To P3T, thanks for pointing out that the performing arts are a good alternative. My Ds were in HS drama, and hopefully will continue, though it certainly eats up all time for other pursuits as well! </p>
<p>And mini, you have a good handle the long term implications of all this drinking. My job at times involves caring for the people hospitalized as they withdraw from alcohol, sometimes for the 2nd or many more times. It ain't pretty, and it saddens me no end that a percentage of these binging kids, many due to their genetic propensity will end up in that hospital bed at some point. </p>
<p>As I had nothing to do with a drinking scene in college, it is a foreign world to me. Well, maybe once. At that time, and still, I felt there were many other interests to pursue. I was a musician, and played music with friends, took ceramics and threw pots late into the night, cooked for and with roommates, took part in all manner of outdoor activities, folk danced, danced to Reggae, conversed with friends late into the night, etc. The world was a fascinating place, filled with more than I'll ever have time to explore. I still feel that way, though the energy at times is diminished. I don't understand, why these bright minds at great colleges, cannot find 'something to do' besides drink? Even at rural LACs, my impression is that the schools work on providing an interesting environment that does not just shut down at 5 PM. </p>
<p>I am just wondering what is going on societally that excess drinking seems necessary for interpersonal functioning for this age group. Or am I just some sort of person on the fringe, and people have always related primarily through alcohol?</p>
<p>I know this, and Wisconsin has a proud tradition of bars...and alcoholism. But aside from the college crowd, maybe including, I'd guess that many of those who frequent this place have a few beers, conversation, music, pool, whatever and go home. Responsible alcohol use. We're talking another level of drinking on this thread.</p>
<p>One bar I actually liked visiting years ago was Harry's New York Bar in Paris. It was my parents' favorite hangout when my father was a diplomatic courier after the war. Met a Yorkshireman, Russians, Parisians-- a real international crowd, and a fun night.</p>
<p>What I don't understand is drinking done for the sole purpose of getting wasted (that's my 70's and 80's vocab coming back). Doing shots and chugging seem absolutely pointless to me, and dangerous. You might end up thinking you're the life of the party, or you might end up puking, blacking out, or dying (remember poster Lucifer from last year).</p>
<p>Years ago I worked in a pub in Hong Kong that was one of the more amazing international experiences anyone could ever have. Expat businessmen from all over the world, the British, Australian and American navys (navies?) when in port, tourists, locals. Large volumes of beer were downed, and conversation was international, lengthy and quite interesting. Alcohol fueled the conversation, and the focus was conversation and socialization, not obliteration of the senses. Which is why, again, this college alcohol scene seems so pathological.</p>
<p>You're daughter sounds a lot like me. From a student's point of view, I never drank in HS, and I didn't plan to drink in college either. I did try one day though in the middle of my first semester but I wasn't pressured into trying, nor was there any pressure for me to try when I didn't want to. I go to a school in an urban area that has quite a reputation for being nerdy, but the party scene seems to be growing and there are hardcore partiers out there. However, it's there if you want it, and you can go elsewhere if you don't care for it. No one really cares if you drink or not. As long as you have a great personality and are sociable, you're set.</p>
<p>In response to kids needing to seek medical attention when they've had too much... my school set up a new policy that would not write them up if they were sent to an ER. This is to prevent kids to neglect the attention they need because of the fear of getting written up, having their parents called, etc. Many schools are beginning to implement such a policy, and I believe it's a good idea. I didn't give it a second thought to send my friend to the hospital when she wasn't responding, and this was before the new policy was put in place. It really all comes down to good judgment of the students.</p>
<p>The smartest piece of advice to give to your daughter is that if she ever does want to try, make sure she has a group of good friends that she can trust with her, so if anything happens, there will be someone to help. A friend in HS once told me that her mom told her it was ok to drink, as long as she was with friends she knew that wouldn't leave her in the middle of the street.</p>
<p>D, rising sophomore, is much like the OP in that she is not a big partier (not that she doesn't party, it's just not a big deal to her). She chose a private small U/LAC that has almost no competitive big sports and minimal greek system. She wanted a school that did not emphasize those two aspects because "party animals" are an integral part of Frats and football and not her interest. She is a self described "musical theater nerd." Her school is very selective and kids need to work hard. I ASSUMED tht the drinking scene was very much smaller than other schools. D just laughed at me. She tells me that there are plenty of parties and drinking games at all schools including hers. One difference is that drinking is "essential" to schools that have a big Greek system and big athletics and at her school drinking is just one of the many things the students do to release. We visited last April to see D perform in a musical. There was so much going on on campus (theater, speakers and other interest-group related events), that is was hard to decide which to do. The school was plastered with posters announcing events. D pointed out that while drinking is one thing to do, it is not THE THING TO DO. For a student like OP's daughter, what is important to look for is whether there are alternatives to that scene. She may want to choose a school that de-emphasizes sports and has a minimal greek scene. She may want a less rural school.</p>
<p>p3T makes some very good points (as always!) about performing arts groups. Kids involved in such groups rehearse very hard and long hours, often in the evenings and weekends. It does slow down the drinking. D sings with an a cappella group that is often rehearsing until past midnight. They travel to other campuses around the NE on weekends. She is also in musical theater that leaves little time (or interest ) in big parties. Cast parties do involve drinking, we should not kid ourselves. However, the kids are busy rehashing their performances, singing, etc and entertain each other so that the drinking is not the main event...the kids are. It is really amusing to hang around performing arts kids. No quiet shy types, that's for sure!!!</p>
<p>i resent the part about greek life involving a lot of drinking.
30% of the undergrad population at my school is in greek life, including myself. i never thought of joining because of the negative stereotypes, but you have to learn that not EVERY school will be like that. my school has a strict policy about greek life and alcohol. like how some schools have fraternities and sororities hosting parties at bars and whatnot - my school doesn't allow that. granted there are underground parties - but i know so many members of greek life who don't drink, and everyone's cool with that. i, myself, am only an occassional drinker who parties like once a month.</p>
<p>and just because people take up their time with other activities, it doesn't mean that they won't party. you work hard, you play hard.</p>
<p>it's college, and to expect to not see drinking at all is not possible. if you do become involved, just be safe about it. but parties are never the dominant scene in any college, even if it is a college known for being a party school. you just have to make smart judgments about what to do in such a situation.</p>
<p>
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i resent the part about greek life involving a lot of drinking
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<p>sorry to offend. there are, of course exceptions to everything. Frats and Sororities have their place and positive aspects. Philanthropy being one. Yes, all colleges have their share of drinkers and partiers.</p>
<p>But the preponderance of evidence equates the Greek system with drinking. It is nothing new or surprising. Schools, such as Cal State U Chico had to shut down their entire greek system a few years ago because of the excessive drinking and alchohol related deaths. Schools that have a large greek system and big athletics get the reputation as "party" schools for a reason.</p>
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and just because people take up their time with other activities, it doesn't mean that they won't party. you work hard, you play hard.
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agreed and stated in my post. p3t and I were discussing groups that work hard during evenings and weekends (theater, music ) and how these groups tend to drink less because their primary time together is during prime party time and they are occupied with rehearsals and performances. This is not to say they don't drink....just to a different degree.</p>
<p>If they did away with greeks tomorrow, there would be no more or less drinking in college. Having a greek letter outside doesn't make people drink. The people who want to party will do so no matter where they are. Since colleges have no idea whether or not someone is going to go greek before they admit them, the same party animals would end up at the university whether frats exist or not. They just seem to find each other.</p>
<p>I've had one son finish his bachelor's and another is a senior. Neither drink, at all. Both went or go to schools that have 6 or 7 of mini's factors. Each has a circle of good, close friends. None of them drink either. Truth is, people who are drinking are boring to be around after a short while. Except to other drinkers. My sons will go to parties but always plan to leave after making an appearance, usually with others who also not getting wasted.</p>
<p>So the reality is that a larger student population is better for a student that does not like to drink, because there is a larger pond to fish in for friends. Even if that larger population is at a "huge party school." A small school could be pretty lonely for a non-drinker.</p>
<p>Post 32: "Doubleplay- the thing is, the people judging them are going to be used to this type of thing more than our generation and previous generations are. I don't think a kegstand picture from facebook is going to hurt the presidential candidate in 2024!"</p>
<p>Interesting that i just bought the current issue of Teen Vogue (it has Anne Hathaway on the cover - Sept. I think). In it is a poll asking young girls to give thier opinions on who is hot, and who is over the top and not hot. Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton were not hot, and in the what's in and what's out list, it seems that unseemly partying got a big "out" as well. So I think the advice on this thread is sound that it is best to keep your rep intact. Styles go in and out, but what NEVER goes out of style is a little Machiavellian sabotage of a rival. Don't do anything that someone else can use to hurt you. Life is complicated enough.</p>
<p>When discussing smaller, more rural campuses, we seem to be using the term "nothing else to do" as some kind of shorthand that I don't quite understand. My husband tells stories of kids he knew during summers spent in small Wisconsin towns who drag raced down the country roads because they were "bored." Ok -- then there are the kids here in wealthy Chicago suburbs surrounded by movies, all sorts of technology, schools filled with sports and ec's, malls, theater, etc. who get hurt hanging around the train tracks in town because they are "bored." So the only kids who never drink and get in trouble live . . . where? Stimulating urban areas? City kids never get in trouble or drink?</p>
<p>There will always be kids who are "bored" and who think the only cool thing to do is party. It seems to me that if a student finds a good group of friends, everything becomes fun -- even if it's just watching a bad movie, attempting to bake cookies, playing a card game.</p>
<p>What does worry me, as the mother of daughters, is the addition of available alcohol to what is already for many girls the overwhelming need to fit in and be attractive to boys. Girls desperately need sports, time with older people, independent pursuits -- they need "mirrors" that reflect them back to themselves that have nothing to do with the clothes they are wearing and who they are dating. Why do the girls agree to drink heavily and humiliate themselves at parties? This is my work with my daughters during high school, and it is more important to me than analyzing the drinking cultures at any given school.</p>
<p>^^^ Ah, but that is exactly why my daughter finds it somewhat important to be at a school where drinking is not the overwhelming activity of choice! She finds the people who just want to get wasted "boring" --- so the idea of a campus culture revolving around something she is not interested in is not appealing. She doesn't care that others drink, but there are many components to "fit" & the prevalence/relative importance of drinking as a campus passtime is part of the equation.</p>
<p>I agree spidey, trashing one's opponent in a political race will never go out of style.</p>
<p>And the drinking thing- if ANYTHING we are going toward more conservatism, not less, when it comes to substance abuse. When I was 18, drinking was legal. Now it is illegal. No matter that 10 or 20 years from now it may or may not be legal. The issue will be "My opponent BROKE THE LAW!!"</p>
<p>D attends Amherst, which is considered a heavy drinking school. She says there is a lot of drinking, but she avoids it, works security and has been TIPS trained, to deal with alcohol poisoning, etc., and has had no problem being social and has made wonderful friends. There will be kids that feel the same as your D and they will get together.</p>