Can anyone help me?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hello everyone,</p>

<p>I'm a typical asian girl who is deperately looking for help. I will be a senior this fall(2006-07) and currently am very confused about this whole college processing situation</p>

<p>I've been in US for 5 years now (legal resident, has student visa..so I will be counted as international student when I'm applying to college)</p>

<p>My parents are very confused and freaking about whole sending me out-of-state and college process since I'm the oldest. (has one younger sister)</p>

<p>Even before I came here, cello has been my part of life and I LOVE playing cello. Basically, I cannot express how I enjoy my playing and I'm so thankful that my parents let me play this instrument that creates beautiful sound. </p>

<p>So when I came to this monster college processing, I decided to look for universities/collges that have great music departments. I thought universities were better for me because I like the diversity of it. I may want to do double major if the whole music career isn't my thing. </p>

<p>Ok, the problem is, I don't know where to start. I have so many questions in my mind.. so maybe I thought CC would be my lifesaver. :)</p>

<p>Here's my question:</p>

<p>1) How important is your SATI, IIs ? (When you are auditioning)
2) What's dual program? (For instance, Barnard, Columbia..etc) Do you have to apply both regular colleges AND conservatories? If so, how important is your academic achievements?<br>
3) What universities/colleges are best known for cello?
4) Let's say.. you auditioned for music performance major, got in, but you just don't like it. Are there any ways to change your major?
5) Can you choose academic courses ..other than music-related?
6) How does this whole auditioning-for-music-departments go? (I'd like a detailed answer here :D )
7) Is there ED/EA for music performances too?
8) Can you get any scholarships or financial aid for music?
If so, where can I get infromation from?
9) Should I put some safeties on my college list in case of NOT getting into any of the schools below (hope that doesn't happen)? (such as, Vtech, George Mason, etc)</p>

<p>So far.. I've got</p>

<p>BU
Boston College (any ideas on music?)
Carnegie Mellon
Indiana U
Northwestern (way too expensive)
NYU
UMD
UR (Eastman)
UMichigan</p>

<p>(I'd like to stay on the east coast if I can..)</p>

<p>Sorry for my rambling. I'm just very confused about this whole process since I'm the first one to do it. </p>

<p>Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it !</p>

<p>P.S Here's my resume - notice most of activities are music related ;)</p>

<p>Principal of Langley High School Chamber Orchestra 10, 11
National Honor Society 11
Science Honor Society 11
Math Honor Society 11
Tri-M (Music Honor Society) 11
Langley High School Chamber Orchestra 9, 10, 11
Northern Virginia Senior Regional Orchestra 9, 10, 11
All-State Virginia Orchestra 10, 11
Corcoran/Langley Partnership GALA performance 9, 10, 11 </p>

<p>HONORS & AWARDS
A/B Honor Roll 9, 10
Academic Award: Outstanding Student (Latin II) 10
American Classical League and the National Junior Classical League 9, 10
- Honorable Merit in National Latin Exam
Saxon Star in World History/Geography II 10
Langley High School Orchestra Superlatives 9
Langley High School Outstanding Freshman 9
The 3rd Piano & Strings Concours of Hymn
- Grand Prix (Washington DC Area) 11
Dorothy Farnham Feuer Young Soloist Competition Finalist 9, 11
Northern Virginia Music Teachers Association Concerto Competition 9
- 3rd Place </p>

<p>EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITES/INTERESTS
Playing cello for 8 years 9, 10, 11
National Symphony Orchestra Youth Scholarship Program 10, 11
American Youth Philharmonic Orchestra 10, 11
Solo for Millennium Stage Concert at Kenney Center 10, 11
National Symphony Orchestra Day Concert at Kennedy Center 10, 11
Solo for Tsunami Relief Fund Washington Youth Concert 10
Member of Quartet 11
Member of Octet 11
Played with Capital Cello Circle 9, 10
Master Class with cellist Alban Gerhardt 11
Master Class with cellist Paul Kats 11
Played at Library of Congress Reception 11
Solo Performance at Carnegie Hall, New York(Weil Recital Hall) 11 </p>

<p>VOLUNTEER ACTIVITES
Music Buddy Program (Being a cello mentor) 11
- 30 ~ 40 minutes per week
Play for Epiphany Catholic Church in Washington DC 11
- 1 ~ 2 times per month </p>

<p>WORK EXPERIENCE / INTERNSHIPS
Cello tutoring ( 1 hour per week) 10, 11</p>

<p>Involved in various cello ensembles 9, 10, 11
- wedding gigs, playing in quartet at caf</p>

2

<p>Oh, another question.
Do AP scores matter for music majors?
(such as .. chem, calc, etc)</p>

<p>Sorry for so many questions... :)</p>

3

<p>Your in luck. I was in the exact same position as you except I'm a violinist. (Let me just say that theres an incredibly cellist teacher that just came from CIM to teach at UMich this year) </p>

<ol>
<li><p>SAT IIs are important for the academic part of the college. The music department does not weigh SAT IIs as heavily as your audition. How well you play is the most important thing they are looking for. </p></li>
<li><p>Dual Programs:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Northwestern University 5 year double degree program
University of Michigan 5 year double degree program
Peabody and Johns Hopkins 5 year double degree program
Carnegie Mellon 4 year? double degree program
URoch/Eastman double degree program</p>

<p>Tufts and NEC double degree program
Harvard and NEC double degree program</p>

<p>Juilliard and Columbia*
Juilliard and Barnard*
MSM and Columbia*
MSM and Barnard*</p>

<p>*despite what everyone thinks, they DO NOT have a double degree programs. They have something where you can take classes from the other school you are enrolled in. In addition, it is EXTREMELY hard to accomplish since both schools demand a lot from you. Not even Gil Shaham (famousss violinist) completely the requirements from both schools. He dropped out of both Juilliard and Columbia. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Well, I think UMich is the best cuz the CIM cello teacher is coming to teach at UMich this year.....But I may be bias because thats where I'm going as a double degree student in violin performance and Literature of Arts and sciences this fall. </p></li>
<li><p>As far as I know, the universities such as UMich and Northwestern will let you drop your music major any time. You have to understand though, that if you get a music scholarship, you have to major in music in order .
to keep it. </p></li>
<li><p>Universities will let you take classes other than music. It depends on what classes and you have to speak with your advisor about it though. </p></li>
<li><p>I will talk about the ones that I applied to. For UMich, Northwestern and URoch/Eastman, they had a box on the application that says, "check box if applying to the dual degree program with the school of music". You check it and its kind of like applying separately. Your music application goes with the other music applications and your academic application goes with the academic ones (although its ONE application when your applying). For my Northwestern, NYU and Carnegie Mellon audition, the jury had my application in their hands, so they saw my grades and SATs.
Some colleges will give you a website to schedule your audition, and some will mail you. After your audition. Northwestern, CMU and UMich will send you the results. Your academic and music results will be separate. Like for me, I got into CMU's music program but not its arts and sciences. For Northwestern, I got into neither. heh. heh. For Johns Hopkins/Peabody, if you get into both, your not guarenteed that you were accepted into the double degree program. They mail you about that decision later. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>By the way, NYU's music program isnt as strong as the other schools you listed. </p>

<p>I dont know if this is clear enough.....</p>

<ol>
<li>YES YES YES YES YES!!!! Apply to safeties. You never know if you will be able to get into your top choices. College auditions are A LOT more competitive than one might think. </li>
</ol>

<p>if you have any other questions, just ask! Hope this helps!</p>

4

<p>Hey your stats look interesting...I'll read it over more carefully later and send you a PM (private message...since you're new here.)</p>

<p>Anyway to answer your question, no Yale does not offer an undergraduate performance/education majors. In fact, many major conservatories steer clear of music education in general.</p>

5

<p>wow. THANK you so much for your reply, crzyviolin.
It helped me so much :)</p>

<p>anyways, do you know anything about BU?
also, congrats on getting into UMichigan !
Oh my, I know.. I heard about famous CIM cellist Richard Aaron is gonna be there :) And seems like everyone loves his way of teaching. </p>

<p>But once again, thank you:)</p>

<p>P.S your answer worries me.. but if you only apply for music major, there wouldn't be any separate results. Am I correct? Also, even if you applied for music major, can't you decide(after you get in) whether you wanna do double degree or not ?</p>

6

<p>WindCloudUltra, thank you for your info on Yale.
haha, does it interesting? Wow, thank you again :)
I'm just hoping this resume will help me in the fall. </p>

<p>PMs welcome anytime :D
I have many questions to ask, anyways.</p>

<p>What school do you go to?</p>

7

<p>1) How important is your SATI, IIs ? (When you are auditioning)</p>

<p>At university music programs, you must be accepted into both the school of music AND the academic school (there may be exceptions that I'm not aware of...), but the music school tends to have quite a bit of clout as far as getting the academic school to accept students who aren't quite academically up to par. See the recent Rice thread for actual examples of this. So basically...you want to have respectable SATs, but if they're slightly below the school's average don't freak out.</p>

<p>2) What's dual program? (For instance, Barnard, Columbia..etc) Do you have to apply both regular colleges AND conservatories? If so, how important is your academic achievements?</p>

<p>For example, in either Harvard/NEC or Columbia/Juilliard, you must apply and be accepted to both schools. You then get a bachelor's from the college and a master's from the conservatory. I may be slightly mistaken on that (I never tried for one), but I'm fairly sure that's correct.</p>

<p>4) Let's say.. you auditioned for music performance major, got in, but you just don't like it. Are there any ways to change your major?</p>

<p>Yes. At a university, it's not a problem to change your major.</p>

<p>5) Can you choose academic courses ..other than music-related?</p>

<p>Assuming you're going for bachelor's in music, you HAVE to take academic courses - legally, no college can award a bachelor's degree in ANYTHING unless students have fulfilled certain liberal arts requirements. The other option is the artists' diploma, which is a 2 (?) year course, exclusively music, and doesn't require any academic courses.</p>

<p>6) How does this whole auditioning-for-music-departments go? (I'd like a detailed answer here )</p>

<p>Oh boy...let's see...</p>

<p>Audition repertoire: You will have to look at each individual school to see their audition requirements for your instrument. Usually it's something like (I'm just making this up) a movement of solo Bach, a solo concerto, a sonata or other solo work from the 20th century, all scales and arpeggios, etc etc. You can choose your own specific works within these guidelines; usually substitutions are not allowed. When you're auditioning for several schools, you can't always use the same exact music for all of them because of this, so the amount of music can pile up fairly quickly. Be careful of this - it can easily become overwhelming.</p>

<p>Applications - you must send in a written application to any music school, on which you usually must specify the music you're going to play and what audition date you'd like (if applicable). If you're going to do a live audition (see below), you probably want to get your application in fairly early on so that you can be reasonably assured of getting the audition date you requested.</p>

<p>Auditions - you will either have to send in a tape, audition live at the school itself, or take a local "regional" audition. Live auditions are by far the best option - you can get a feel for the teacher, for the environment, and the teacher can get to know you better. It's also harder to get in based on a regional audition or (especially) a tape - the teacher can't get to know you at all or ask you to change anything on the spot, so they consider you much more of a wild card, so to speak.</p>

<p>The audition itself - if you do a live audition, you'll go to the school on your day, register, and be assigned a time. Sometimes you have to take a theory test (which usually doesn't affect acceptance, just for placement purposes). Sometimes there's social stuff (get to know the professors, talk to other students, etc) the day of or the day before, sometimes there isn't. When you go into the audition (which often runs late), you will be asked to play part of your repertoire...usually not all of it. All of my auditions this past year were basically lessons - the teachers wanted to see how I adapted to what they asked of me. I have friends whose auditions were basically just performances. Personally, I found that auditions weren't as bad as I had feared, as did most people that I've talked to. The judges understand that you're stressed beyond belief, that you've worked your tail off, and they tend to be pretty accomodating.</p>

<p>7) Is there ED/EA for music performances too?</p>

<p>Oberlin may have had an early audition date which was basically the same as EA...but I can't be sure of that. Aside from that example, I've never heard of it being done.</p>

<p>8) Can you get any scholarships or financial aid for music?</p>

<p>Yes. Just like any other major, you can get need-based aid, which you apply to through FAFSA or other government-sponsored agencies. Merit scholarships are awarded upon acceptance, without your having to apply for them - but they do exist. For example, you said that Northwestern is way too expensive - I have a friend who got almost a full ride there (merit award).</p>

<p>If so, where can I get infromation from?</p>

<p>Email the appropriate people at the school of music for merit awards.</p>

<p>9) Should I put some safeties on my college list in case of NOT getting into any of the schools below (hope that doesn't happen)? (such as, Vtech, George Mason, etc)</p>

<p>Yes yes yes yes yes. Always.</p>

<p>AP scores don't matter at all in acceptance to a music school, probably very little to an academic school when the music department is helping you get in.</p>

<p>Feel free to PM me if you have more questions that I can help with</p>

8

<p>Oh bsnbilly -
thank you very much for your detailed answers.
Seems like it hasn't been long since you auditioned for schools.</p>

<p>See, I'm all freaked out and all-
On what basis did you make your college list ?
If you auditioned, how many did you audition for?</p>

<p>Once again, thank you :)</p>

9

<p>yes, if you apply as a music major you wont get any separate results. You'll get a decision on whether you get into the school based on your audition. Though they NEVER admit it, if your grades arent that great but your audition was AMAZING, they usually overlook your grades and let you in as a music major. </p>

<p>YES YES YES, you can ALWAYS drop your music major if you get in as a double degree student. I'm actually thinking of doing that next year, because I have to take a full 18 credits for 5 and 1/2 years in order to complete my double degree requirements. (I"m a special case because I didnt place out on any classes and I got put in the remedial piano class because I didnt have any piano training before and they require you to take piano for a couple of semesters at UMich if your a music performance major)</p>

<p>bsnbilly, you explained it soooo much better than me! hahaha</p>

10

<p>oh...I dont know anything about BU cuz I didnt apply...sowwie! But I'm sure other ppl on this forum knows!</p>

11

<p>oh yeah, and you make your college list on TEACHERS! THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT. In the music world, nobody cares about the prestige. Well, I'm sure they do, but they care about HOW YOU PLAY THE MOST. you are with your teacher for FOUR years and thus will have the most significant influence with your playing in college.</p>

12

<p>Well, I was in almost the same situation as you are except that I have been in the U.S. for only 4 years and that I play the piano instead of cello. And next year I'll be a double degree student at Johns Hopkins / Peabody.</p>

<p>First a minor correction on crzyviolin excellent response. Columbia/Juilliard (or Barnard/Juilliard) does have a double degree program, that is, if you count Harvard/NEC as one. For the Columbia-Juilliard-Barnard exchange program (I think that's the name), you apply to both school (either C/J or B/J) seperately, and if you are luckly enough to get into both, you enroll as a student of Columbia or Barnard, take FREE lessons from Juilliard faculty for three years, and after your junior, you have to decided if you want to continue on Juilliard's Master of Music program. If so, you have to audition for that. It's kind of similiar to Harvard/NEC except that in the Havard/NEC program you only need to be judged for your ability to continue the MM program at NEC instead of having to audition again (against all those fabulous Juilliard applicants ) in the B-C-J exchange program. </p>

<p>As for Yale, it does offer a kind of double degree program that leads to a BA or BS from Yale College and a MM from Yale School of Music. </p>

<p>Your questions:
1) Very important, because you have to get through the academic part of the double degree idea. Have you taken any yet? Be sure to take them as soon as possible, because SAT IIs are required by some colleges you listed (I think Northwestern is one) and some colleges crzyviolin mentioned. And you definitely want to get them out of your way before November, and absolutely no later than December. Perhaps others can give you better ideas on what scores you should aim for, but the 700 or more should almost get you in all schools (the academic part) on you list except Northwestern, in which case, along with Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Yale, and Columbia, your 700s can do nothing more than guarentees that you are not throw out immediately. </p>

<p>2) You have to apply seperately and get accepted to both schools at the bigger name programs like Harvard/NEC, Columbia/Juilliard, JHU/Peabody, UR/Eastman, but I'm not sure about the others. At UMD (assume that you are talking about U of Maryland College Park), you need to fill out only one application along with a 2 or 3 page supplement for the music school, but you need to audition for the music school. Once you are in the music school, you are in the college. </p>

<p>3) I have no idea b/c I don't play the cello. Sorry</p>

<p>4) Yes, you can always drop the music part at all the programs that I have some knowledge of. At many program, the music part is the harder part to get into, and it really does not matter if you choose to drop the music part. I think you are not thinking of just conservatories, but even in that case, you can transfer to a college if you find music performance not what you want to do. </p>

<p>5) Yes, though the quality of academic classes are doubtful depending on where you are going. If you are in just a conservatory/music school, the academic classes would be limited in choice and heavily on the humanities side, although I think if you are in Juilliard, Eastman, or Peabody (or other conservatories that I'm not aware of), you can cross-register with the corresponding university/college even if you are not a double degree student. </p>

<p>6) The question is too broad. If you can ask with more detail, I can perhaps help you with it more. If you are asking about how the applying to music conservatory/school goes, you can certainly find a lots of old threads in this forum to help you. </p>

<p>7) None that I'm aware of. For music conservatories/schools, there are usually an audition period that is in late Jan, Feb, or early March, so EA/ED is not available for that reason. Even if there is one (I'm talking about ED), don't do it because the double degree thing is always complicated and you want the freedom to do the final choosing. </p>

<p>8) Yes. Do some research on the school you are interested - find their admission websites, and there is almost always a whole section dedicated to finacial aids. </p>

<p>9) I second crzyviolin's advice: YES! Absolutely necessary that you have safeties on your list. Some schools on your current list may be in the safety range, but that depends on your academic achievement (especially the Sats) and how well you play the cello. </p>

<p>Hope those helps. Applying for double degree is a very complicated process...</p>

<p>EDIT: oops, I'm kind of slow at typing... did not see bsnbilly's post. There might be some duplicate in information, but I'm too lazy to find them out.</p>

13

<p>and oh yeah...haha...there IS a ED for Northwestern (cuz thats what I did) and they have one for CMU and NYU as well. Also, Oberlin DOES have an EA.</p>

<p>thzxcyl is probably right on the Juilliard double degree. hahaha. I didnt really do enough reseach on Juilliard because I didnt even get past the prescreening audition for that. ><</p>

14

<p>ohhhh, it's ok :)
hahaha, my questions are endless.
Sorry if im bothering you....or anyone else xD</p>

<p>Did you apply any safeties, crzyviolin?
If so, where did you apply?</p>

<p>Thanks a BUNCH for replying my thread.
I reallly appreciate it. =)</p>

15

<p>THANK YOU ! thzxcyl !
whew... this whole college preps.. crazier than I thought. :)</p>

16

<p>it's ok
even if some info are duplicated,
I'm happy to find out more and more about this.</p>

<p>Whewwwww.</p>

17

<p>my safeties were Stonybrook, Binghamton (my state schools) and NYU for music. I didnt really apply to any music safeties because I was incredibly aware of how difficult and competitive the music world is. So my mindset last year when I was auditioning was, either get into my top choice music schools with the top music professors or dont be a music major. </p>

<p>I'm probably a little different though. haha. My advice is to talk to your private teacher about what your reaches, matches, and safeties should be when applying to college.</p>

18

<p>You have received some very good advice. I will add a few random comments. </p>

<p>First, it really helps if you have an independent assessment of your music abilities. You need to know if you have a reasonable shot at a top conservatory or if you should consider conservatories and music programs which are less selective. If you are going to audition for a top conservatory, it will also help - and is probably a necessity - to have a good teacher work with you to prepare for auditions. </p>

<p>Second, I will echo some of the above comments on dual majors. It is very difficult to study music at a conservatory or top music school level and also handle an academic major. Double degrees will usually require 5 years. This approach will also limit your choices. You will need to be accepted by the music school and meet requirements for academics. You will need to consider which schools meet your music and academic interests and abilities and which also have support for double major students. Juilliard and MSM are poor choices. Eastman/UR and Peabody/JHU are possiblities, but very demanding. Few students meet the requirements and fewer complete the double degrees. Oberlin and Bard are good choices and these schools encourage and work with double degree students.</p>

<p>I will add a couple of comments on your tentative list. BU has a fairly good, but very small music program. Each year is different, but they will probably enroll between 0 and 2 or 3 cellos. The music program at NYU is modest. Costs are high and NYU is usually poor with financial aid.</p>

19

<p>Oh goodness.
I don't know how I'm going to handle this ;)
but really, EVERYONE.
thank you so much. </p>

<p>but I wouldn't mind more info :) heehee.</p>

<p>it's so hard to focus on both academics and music,
I will have to think about it..</p>

20

<p>edad, I've thought about auditioning at conservatories, (such as Curtis, CIM, etc) but I don't think I can survive in the enormous competition among the conservatories...that why I'm more leaning towards to the unversities that have good&strong music departments.</p>

<p>Maybe my major will be chaned in few years later..who knows.</p>

<p>I'm not a HUGE fan of double degrees... I'm just thinking about it as one of the option, but once again, who knows..</p>

<p>anyways, thank you very much for your info. =)</p>