CAP21 at TSOA: do I stand a chance?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Ok, I am a rising sophmore this year (a little young to be thinking about college, I know…) but I’ve wanted to go to Tisch since I was 12! I have taken voice lessons for 2 years (5 by the time I graduate) and take an acting/musical theater/audition class at the music conservatory at a local university. The thing that I am really worried about is dance… I danced alot when I was younger, and then I revived my dancing legs in a theater dance class a year ago. Since then, I have been MIA from the dancing scene! I am hoping, however to take classes in ballet and tap through the American Reperatory Ballet this year! I know that CAP21 doesn’t require a dance audition… but I know that it is optional. How will my dance experience affect my chances at admission? I will be sending in a resume to the summer program there this february… what are my chances of being accepted?</p>

<p>I know that academic rigour is very important to NYU as well… I got a 4.0 unweighted this year and take all honors (gah! My parents made me take those courses…It was such a stress-filled year!)… but will this help me at Tisch? I heard from some people that they do not consider academics too much because you audition for them instead… :confused: ?</p>

<p>Another important part of admissions is extracurriculars…right?? Here are some of mine (you don’t have to read them if you don’t want to): Voice lessons, Musical theater class, Dance(hopefully), Girls’ A Cappella, Plays, Musicals, An audition-only girls choir, and Improv club.</p>

<p>I’ve also voulunteered for the special olympics, darfur, and co-founded (with my friend) an organization to raise money to plant trees and offset our school’s carbon footprint (go green… whohoo!)</p>

<p>I’ve asked questions like this on other sites <em>cough</em>yahooanswers<em>cough</em> and people told me that I sounded obnoxious… :frowning: As a disclaimer: I really do not mean to sound obnoxious or anything like that, it’s only that if I want an honest answer to my questions, I feel its my responsibility to supply all the facts!!!</p>

<p>So I would like to know:

  1. If I keep up what I’m doing now, what are my chances of acceptance into CAP21 at Tisch for college and for the summer program?<br>
  2. What other studios should I look into as a 2nd and 3rd choice? I heard that Stella Adler was a good one but I’m not sure…<br>
  3. Is there anything else that I could do to expand on myself to make myself a more desireable candidate?</p>

<p>Any answers will be really appreciated! (If you even read this I thank you so much!)</p>

<p>P.S. I’m so so sorry that this is so long, but I am new to this site and have so many questions!</p>

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<p>You sound like you are on the right track! Keep working on your singing acting and dancing and keep up with your extra curriculars and academics. If you do the summer program that will give you an idea of what they are looking for at CAP. It's not vital to be perfect in everything so it's not the end of the world if you didn't do a dance audition, although I'm sure it's helpful if you could do a good one.
You don't sound obnoxious at all. I actually thought you sounded great! My thoughts right before you said that were that you seemed bubbly and interesting. The thing about posting online like this is you are opening yourself up to judgement, but I would just ignore any very negative comments like that, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
As for other acting studios I can certainly recommend a great one but I'd need to know what kind of training are you looking for from your studio? Each one is VERY different. What I think is fantastic could be something you hate or find boring or irrelevant to you. You can read about the studios on the NYU site.</p>

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<p>Wow thank you sooo much for all of that!! I am really happy that you thought I seemed bubbly and interesting (because that's how I like to think I act in actual life!), although I'm actually quite surprised that it could come through my writing lol (I always feel like my writing makes me seem boring...)! Haha thanks for the tip about NYU's website - the Tisch site has actually been my homepage since I can remember! </p>

<p>As for other acting studios: hmm... I really would like to continue music in some way with the integration of dance and a strong education in acting. I feel that when I am being trained in all three crafts, I sometimes discover something in, (for example) dance class, that I find helpful and then bring to my vocal and acting performances. For me, it's not only learning the 3 elements on their own, but using them in conjunction with each other is when I feel I really can grow and blossom as a performer.</p>

<p>Any input on what other studios I may fit well in would be greatly appreciated - I've only now discovered that you can have second or third options, and the investigation of all these studios is very daunting (not to mention confusing...)!</p>

<p>Thank You!,
Meg</p>

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<p>Strasberg is the most MT-oriented out of all the studios. A lot of people who don't get into CAP are placed there. But here's the thing...and this is just what I've heard, but apparently CAP trains you to get an ensemble role in a Broadway musical. And hey, if that's what you want to do, go for it. But some people who are equally strong as the CAP kids at singing and dancing get placed in Strasberg, which focuses more on acting but offers strong voice and dance classes. Supposedly, it's supposed to prepare you to work in any field...drama, musical theater, film, etc. But I haven't started yet so I can't really tell you if it actually does :-)</p>

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<p>Wow, thank you for all the info on Strasberg, anna5631! The thing that really appeals to me about CAP is that I will be able to continue private voice and music theory training... Is there anyway to do this in the other studios? I'm definately considering Strasberg as a 2nd option!!</p>

<p>Oops... Have I been reading old threads again??? Is it true that there is no longer a dance audition for experienced dancers, but still an opportunity to discuss your dance training in the interview? If so, that would take a huge weight off of my shoulders!!!</p>

<p>Also, I'm really overwhelmed as to where I should search for monologues... Should I purchase books (monologue "anthologies"), or entire plays? If anyone has gone through this experience, their input would be put to good use!!!</p>

<p>Thanks!,
Meg</p>

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<p>anna, </p>

<p>CAP doesn't aim to train you for an ensemble role on Broadway. I know plenty of CAP grads who have significant roles on Broadway, national tours and regional. One of my D's pals, with whom she is performing tonight, is a recent CAP grad and is starring on Broadway. I can give you many such examples, including on national tours. CAP21 is no different than other BFA in MT programs that train performers in singing, dancing and acting with the hopes of them being successful in the field, and not simply the chorus on Bdway. </p>

<p>One thing I would agree with is that there are many talented MT kids in other studios (and in fact, many of them have also gone onto success on the MT stage). </p>

<p>Some students do a couple years in one studio and a couple in another. Many do this, in fact. My own kid did 2 1/2 years in CAP21 and is doing 3 semesters in ETW. </p>

<p>I know strong MT kids from all studios. Yes, Strasberg has some singing and dancing. Playwrights Horizons has a MT workshop track. Lots of strong MT kids in Stella Adler. There is singing and dance in ETW too.</p>

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<p>Meg~yes it is true that there is no longer a dance audition of any kind for Tisch. There will be plenty of time to discuss your dance training during your interview.</p>

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<p>I always have to laugh when people on this board and elsewhere claim that such-and-such a program "prepares people for ensemble/chorus roles on Broadway," as if it is not a huge accomplishment to get ANY role (ensemble or not) in a Broadway show. The fact of the matter is, most college students studying musical theater or acting in a college setting won't ever be cast in a Broadway musical or in a Broadway play at all! </p>

<p>During my daughter's college audition season last winter, I heard people at any number of college programs claim that their particular program trains the individual to be a star, whereas "other" programs train "chorus boys and girls." It got to the point where my D and I would look at each other and try not to laugh out loud when we heard that. :)</p>

<p>One of the wonderful things about TSOA's Department of Drama is that there are so many studio choices/approaches to training. As Susan said above, many enormously talented kids who selected CAP21 as their first choice end up in other studios and do very well. And many who make it into CAP21 do very well, as well!</p>

<p>But next time someone says "Such and such a studio/approach/school trains you for ensemble roles on Broadway," remember this: being cast in an ensemble role on Broadway is a HUGE big deal and a chance that most student actors would give their eyeteeth for. :)</p>

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<p>I don't think any studio aims to prepare the students for chorus roles, and actually from what I've heard from friends who've been to both, the training at CAP is considerably more rigorous than that at Strasberg. But, again, that's just the opinion of some people I know - not necessarily a fact.</p>

<p>As for 2nd and 3rd choice studios, they all have elements of voice and movement training alongside acting, but they don't tend to have voice and dance classes as you would think of them in MT terms. That's CAP (and Playwrights has an upper level track for MT but you couldn't apply to that yet). I believe Playwrights do African dance and Stella Adler do Ballet (someone correct me if that's wrong). I also know an MT voice teacher teaches singing at Strasberg and Meisner. Atlantic does Suzuki. ETW does a lot of movement but more improvisational and exploratory than a structured dance class. Same with the movement class at Meisner. Basically you will get a workout in all areas in any studio but not necessarily in MT style.
As Soozie said, there are great MT actors in all studios working on their acting training whilst doing MT things outside of class.
I'm a Meisner grad and wholeheartedly recommend it for excellence of training, challenging work, and supportive attentive class environment. But it is a very particular and challenging experience, so you'd really have to want to be there in order to put yourself through it. It's maybe not a second choice type of studio. Other studios teaching "method"-s, Stanislavski derived acting, are Strasberg and Adler. I've heard mixed things about them quality wise, but they are definitely common 2nd and 3rd choices for CAP applicants. The more modern studios are Atlantic, which is discussed in detail on a thread near here but it's a good solid practical approach which I have heard is excellent training. ETW is experimental techniques, as the name suggests, very physically based training. It seems to be a love it or hate it studio as it's a very particular experience. Playwrights is a modern approach mixing bits of various "methods" and techniques, I hear, and also includes directing and playwrighting and design classes. You also have an amazing class with Ruben Polendo which is very physically based. It seems to be great training if that's what you're looking for but not for everyone.
Hope that helps! To get a feel for the studios, read the books they suggest on the website. That's how I made my decision. Because you know yourself better than we ever could. When you engage with them, you'll get the vibe of what feels right for you!</p>

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<p>oh, also, you can take private voice classes as an elective through Steinhardt no matter what studio you're in. you can probably take music theory as an elective if you really wanted to also. for advice about monologues, talk to Soozie or one of the advisers! they really know their stuff. :)</p>

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<p>NMR brings up something I should have said as well.....For one thing, the goal is not Broadway itself. That is a very narrowly defined goal and very few make it to Bdway in any role. However, as she said, I would imagine that any youngish recent BFA in MT grad from CAP or ANY program would jump at the opportunity to be in the ensemble in a Broadway production! Is that something to sneeze about? Jeez. A very good friend of my daughter's, with whom she spent many summer performing, graduated CAP21 two years ago and was a lead on a National Tour of a Bdway musical. She has now come back from that tour and is cast in ensemble in an upcoming musical revival on Bdway and I am CERTAIN that she is ecstatic to be on Bdway even though she was a lead on a tour, she'd be happy to be ensemble in her Bdway debut. Many who are recent grads are not going to come out of school and be a lead on Bdway right away if ever. If they are gainfully employed as a MT performer professionally, I'd say they are a success. I don't know any program aiming to train exclusively for ensemble roles. My daughter doesn't even think she'd be cast as a chorus girl because she just is not that tall (5'3"). In any case, many a CAP21 grad has gone onto play roles and not only chorus but I am sure most would be thrilled to be cast in ensemble on Bdway too. Many who are in Bdway ensembles are talented enough to play roles and have played many lead roles in their life prior to Bdway. The level of talent in a Bdway ensemble cast is very high. </p>

<p>That said, any educational path can lead to success. My D's pal in NYU's Arts and Sciences is now in Spring Awakening in ensemble and understudying the lead. She didn't even go to a MT program!</p>

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<p>Wow thank you guys all so much for the great advice!! I've been lurking these boards for a while because they come up everytime I search for info on Tisch, and I knew I could count on getting constructive advice!</p>

<p>The more I hear about it, it seems that CAP is the place I would feel the best. I wouldn't be happy if I couldn't sing, dance, and act all the time! I'm the kind of person who loves pushing themselves and I think the rigor of the program is just the challenge that would work well with me! Of course, I would accept any program at Tisch (even though I'm considering applying ED) because it would be an offer too good to pass up, and there are several advanced studios that also seem appealing to me!</p>

<p>Soozievt - since your D has done the audition process, could you describe anything about the process she went through while choosing monologues? (Did she buy books, or plays, or both? Did she have an acting coach that helped her pick? etc..?). I'm sure that it would be beneficial to all hopeful applicants to hear about the "pre-audition" process!! I think I'll be okay as far as choosing songs goes, my voice teacher really helps me with that - she recently found a great song for me to sing, "I'm Not Afraid" (Songs for a New World!); and I'm going to participate in the NATS Competition this year, but I digress. Also, now I'm a bit worried; you said that your D doesn't think she may get cast easily b/c she's short (5'3)... well, I'm only 5 feet tall!!! Should I worry about that - hopefully that wouldn't affect my admissions chances (though I know that some schools like Juilliard actually do take into account the physical appearance of an auditioner...)! But then again, look at Kristin Chenoweth!! :)</p>

<p>JennyD123; Since I'm new to the boards (an a bit confused), could you (or someone) please clarify as to who the advisors are??</p>

<p>Thanks!!!
Meg</p>

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<p>Meg,
You are asking good questions. A lot of these things have been discussed in depth here in the past. One good thing to do is to go through threads on the MT Forum (you can search by topic). For instance, there is a long thread about songs and monologues. There is a thread about overdone songs. Then, also read through all the threads on the NYU/Tisch forum and you will find out SO much!</p>

<p>I know back when my daughter auditioned, I wrote about the audition process at the schools and I know I wrote about her audition process at Tisch (she auditioned winter 2005, RD). </p>

<p>But to answer about choosing monologues......Let me begin by saying that prior to the application year, my daughter had never taken any drama/acting classes or lessons (our school or community doesn't have these) but she was in some acting class at her summer theater camp in another state. That was it. She didn't already have any monologues. She did not do an extensive search like many do (I'll admit this!). She got an acting coach from Sept. through Jan. of that year for weekly sessions to work on the monologues. We got some books but also this acting coach/teacher (who is on the faculty in NYC at Circle in the Square Theater School) gave her some monologue/play suggestions and lent them to her....just a few. She picked from those, plus she picked one of her monologues from a play she had scene that summer twice. She had four total monologues. I think it is good to read monologue books (that come from actual plays) and see if any are appealing and then get the whole play for the ones that you connect with. Also, there are monologue resources online. It is helpful to work with either an acting coach, drama teacher or director who can double check if your monologues are well suited to you (or even suggest some) and also help you as you work on your interpretation. </p>

<p>My daughter tends to find her own song material. She is well versed on the MT repertoire out there and is always listening to and finding music and I suggest you do that and not just rely on suggestions from a voice teacher (but those are good too) My personal opinion is that I"m Not Afraid of Anything" is getting overdone and also JRB songs can be hard for an accompanist (this song may not be that hard though). Doing NATS would be great for you to do and see how you fare. Those types of things are good to get some idea of your competitiveness. And prepping for it and auditioning is good practice (we don't have NATS here but I know kids who have done well with it in other states). </p>

<p>You misunderstood about my D's height and casting. Definitely people her size get cast in shows! She just knows she isn't the chorus girl type that way. And there are plenty of girls shorter than her who do real well (but also are not in chorus). For example, the friend I mentioned who graduated CAP21, played a lead in the Spelling Bee Tour and she is just 4'11" and will be in ensemble in Godspell on Bdway (but that is not like a chorus girl part that I was talking about). </p>

<p>So, she is not afraid of getting cast due to height but simply she knows her "type". Sometimes that height can come in handy. She played the lead in the Tisch Mainstage musical this past season and was lucky as the role was a character who was 12 and so this was a good fit. Just know your type.</p>

<p>RossJi who posts here, has a daughter who is a rising senior in CAP21 and she is a very talented soprano singer and she is 4'10"!</p>

<p>Tonight, my daughter performed with Celia Keenan-Bolger and met her. She played Olive in Spelling Bee on Bdway and Eponine in the Les Mis revival. She is pretty short too. So is Kerry Butler (Xanadu, Little Shop, Bat Boy, Hairspray). And of course Kristin Chenowith. Go for it!</p>

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<p>Thank you, soozievt! You are always so helpful! I have read most of the threads for Tisch-MT but not really many of the general MT threads, thanks for the suggestion!</p>

<p>Yes, I have had a similar acting-experience-training type of situation as your daughter did. I've picked up most of my acting through shows that I have done, and some acting courses done through any MT camp I've been in! My town also has a dearth of private acting teachers :( but I'm not going to give up the search!!!</p>

<p>As for "I'm Not Afraid of Anything," I re-read my origional post about that and realized that I wrote it really confusing-ly-ish (not a word, I know lol) :). Haha, I didn't mean that I was going to sing the song for auditions or competitions (it's far tooo longgg!!!); I was just giving an example of a song that I'm working on... I may sing it for my teacher's annual student recital or something... I totally agree with you about JRB songs getting overdone, I swear that so people in my audition-prep class have sung "Christmas Lullaby" at one point or another. That, and "Home" from Beauty and the Beast.... I'm really trying to look for some good off-broadway shows to search for an amazing song that hasn't yet been overdone (a rare find, I'm sure!)</p>

<p>Thank you so much for the clarification on the height issue!! I don't know, but I've always been afraid that it would hurt me in some way. I totally understand and can agree with what your daughter means by knowing that she just isn't a chorus-girl type; I tend to feel that same way!</p>

<p>To anyone that can answer this: If I take up dance this year, will it look mediocre to have only 3-ish years of dance (I'm thinking ballet, tap, jazz) under my belt, and should I not even bother? I don't want to seem as though I decided to take dance last minute to have it look good on college apps, because those aren't my intentions at all. I want to take dance because, well... I want to dance! It has been a part of my life before, and I consider it a valuable, beautiful, and emotionally expressive art. So, what do you think... should I go for it??</p>

<p>Thanks!,
Meg</p>

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<p>If you intend to pursue MT, you should definitely take dance. It has nothing to do with your application. It has all to do with training in general. Besides, for many BFA programs, there IS a dance audition for admissions and you should keep up your technique and grow as a dancer. Ballet and Jazz would be the most important to take but if you have time, taking tap would be wonderful as well. And yes, schools will like to see that you have been training in dance. If anything, it would look negative to stop dancing the year before trying to enter a college MT program. Nobody is going to say, "she added it to pad her resume" but rather, "she is training and preparing and is serious about MT!"</p>

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<p>meg, I also think that people tend to overstate the importance of what is on a kid's resume going into college auditions. The most important elements are your audition and your transcript (grades and scores), though how each of these are weighed depends on the school and program. (For instance, for Carnegie Mellon, the audition is really the be-all and end-all. For NYU/Tisch, the audition counts for about 50% and your grades and so forth count for 50%. At Juilliard, it is ALL about the audition.)</p>

<p>If you read through the many threads of discussion on this forum, you will read about kids who have had quite limited experience onstage and even trainingwise who get into great programs and the reverse, as well: kids who have had a lot of experience (sometimes, even professional experience) who do not get into top programs.</p>

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<p>Meg - It's great that you are getting an early start on thinking about auditions! You will find lots of useful information here on CC - you can use the "search this forum" feature to find answers to many questions. As far as finding auditions songs that aren't overdone - you might want to check out this thread for songs to avoid (and "do not use" lists) - as you will see, there are many differing opinions and ideas about this topic. I don't know how to "bump" a thread (help, anyone?) - but here is the link:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/90869-do-not-use-list-auditions-11.html?highlight=do+list+for+auditions%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/90869-do-not-use-list-auditions-11.html?highlight=do+list+for+auditions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>NMR is definitely right, and last year when me and my friends went through the whole college theater admissions process we were all really surprised to find out who didn't end up getting into NYU. Case in point were two of my friends, let's call them A and B.</p>

<p>A was class president. Good grades, honors (not AP or gifted), NHS. SATs were average. Talented, not amazing, but all the teachers LOVED him, he got all of the parts in shows and was selected for all the opportunities my school had to offer. He did governor's school and the CAP pre-college program. </p>

<p>B is one of the most naturally gifted performers my age I've ever seen. He's absolutely phenomenal. He was class treasurer, prom king, good grades in honors (not AP or gifted) classes. Average SATs, but amazing at the flute. Got leads and teachers loved him too. You can watch him on the high school musical reality show ;-)</p>

<p>I went for straight theater. Good grades in AP/gifted classes. No impressive extracurriculars. I'm not amazingly talented, but I'm a good actor and I've gotten a couple leads. I used to do MT, so I've taken dance and voice for a couple of years. I've never done a pre-college program but I was in a professional show and I've done a couple summer dance intensives. High SATs. Worked really hard on my essays. A couple teachers really liked me and supported me, most were pretty indifferent, a few hated me. </p>

<p>I got into NYU, they didn't. Of course, I don't know the actual reasons why this happened, but I think I can safely say it wasn't talent. So either it was academics, or the fact that I was more intellectual, or both. But it really proved to all of us that no matter how talented you are, you have to have great academics to get in. So if you know you want to go to NYU, make academics your priority. And audition at a number of other programs, reach, match and safety! And pick real safeties, do a lot of research because you might be surprised to find that schools you thought were your safeties are your match schools. Remember that even if you can get into a school easily academically, it might be a lot tougher to get into the theater program and vice versa. I don't mean to be harsh :-) but a lot of my friends didn't get into the schools they wanted because they didn't do enough research.</p>

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<p>Thank you, everyone, for their advice so far!! I am very happy to hear that academics still play a large role in admission because there are always rumors about different schools that require an audition and how strongly they consider high school academic endeavors. Also, I am hoping that my academics will help set me apart from other auditioners!</p>

<p>For anyone who has gotten into NYU (or has known people who have, etc.), I will try to describe in more detail my academic situation:</p>

<p>I'm only a rising soph. so have only had 1 year of high school under my belt. The classes I took this year were: Biology Honors, French 2 (no honors until French 4 :( ), Gym/Health (mandatory!), World History (no honors available... again!), Geometry Honors, LA I Honors, and Choir. I ended up with: A's on my finals and A's in my courses (4.0 UW, 4.5-ish W?).</p>

<p>The coursework I will be taking this year is: Chemistry Honors, French 3, Gym/Driver's Ed :) , American Studies Honors, Advanced Algebra II Honors, LA II Honors, and Choir. By my Senior year, I will have taken/be enrolled in about 8-ish (give or take) AP's.</p>

<p>As for SAT's and such business: I took the SAT II in biology this past year. Science isn't my strongest subject, but I wanted to give myself a challenge (I mean, why not??). Honestly, one of my reasons for taking the test was that I was so curious about how I would do! I took it in June and I got a 740! (Disclaimer!!: I'm not trying to flash my stats, I just want to supply everyone with the correct info!!). I am hoping that if I do that well on each section of the SAT, I could potentially have a 2220, or a 1480 w/o the writing portion (which I heard NYU doesn't use?!).</p>

<p>I am going to take the PSAT's for the first time this year and I would really love to become a NMS finalist (my mom was, and I know that she would be so proud of me!). I know that NMS is a really tough goal, but the idea of it is more of an inspiration to study, rather than the end-all be-all dream of my life lol.</p>

<p>So I guess what I'm asking is; academically, do I seem to be on the right track? Are there any reasons why NYU may not admit me? (I know that no one here can bode for my talent ability, but I'm hoping to upload some videos of recitals, etc. onto youtube sometime soon, so I'm sure that would help people form opinions! (if my youtube dreams are ever realized!)</p>

<p>Also, I read on another thread that someone said something along the lines of: For every 1 person that CAP admits, there are about 2 people with similar qualifications who can not be admitted due to space.</p>

<p>How do they decide who this one person is, do they close their eyes and point? Or do they look at ethnicity/special qualities (to increase diversity?)? I am bi-racial and have a duel citizenship, but I don't want people to judge me based on race or anything. What are the qualities that set apart the accepted from the almost-there-but-rejected-anyway people?</p>

<p>Thank you!,
Meg</p>

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<p>Susan, was just reading this thread and saw your comment about one of S's friends who was cast in Godspell. Heard from a friend late last night, who was also cast and who had left another show for Godspell, that the run has been cancelled. Raising money for shows is become increasingly difficult. Very sad news for all those involved.</p>