<p>Sorry, I cross posted. My PM box is full but if you click on my name, and “send email”, that will work. </p>
<p>I wasn’t asking you to reveal the name of the source on this board if you do not wish to (that’s fine) but just the nature of the person’s position in relation to NYU and in so doing, you are not really revealing anyone’s identity.</p>
<p>It just helps to back up the information and gives it more validity. Thanks.</p>
<p>As I stated in my post #19, I much rather go by facts than by speculation. Saying things like “I have heard”, or I can’t reveal my source" does not provide any type of factual information, and by factual I mean “verified in writing”, and signed by a person with actual decision making power.</p>
<p>A brainstorming session does not constitute factual change. We know what we know from the letters our kids have received, and from conversations with people in charge. This information at this point is incomplete.</p>
<p>Restructuring and optimization is common in any type of environment, however concluding that “all the outside studios will be phased out” is somewhat of a shot in the dark. I am not saying it does not make sense, because it is obvious that with Tisch “subcontracting services” they also rendered control that they may wish to regain.</p>
<p>However - this particular thread concerns the changing relationship between CAP21 and NYU/Tisch, how it affects our kids, and what information is available right now.</p>
<p>Speculation IMHO is a waste of time and energy.</p>
<p>Well said and you are absolutely right.</p>
<p>When I receive any new FACTS, I will share them here accordingly.</p>
<p>Soozievt, so you are saying that you have seen 2 productions, one from CAP21 and one from Strasberg, that were not up to “Tisch Standards”? Were they poorly produced, poorly directed, or did you think that the talent/training was not up to par?</p>
<p>claydavidbc - I can really only speak of one CAP21 production as, like Soozie’s D, my D, who is currently in CAP, saw a show that she was not particularly impressed with. This did not so much apply to how it was produced, but she felt that the performance of the actors/singers in the show simply fell short of her own personal expectation. Not sure if she would be really qualified to say “not up to Tisch standards”, as she is only a freshman herself. </p>
<p>However, in the same conversation, she also mentioned that, since there are so many performance opportunities within Tisch, may be it was possible that other actors, who could perhaps have fit a certain part better, might have had conflicts, due to being involved with other projects.</p>
<p>I hope that this somewhat answers your question. I was a little reluctant to post this as it is just the opinion of my kid of one show she saw. Other people may have loved that very same show. So I want to add that as a word of caution, so people don’t automatically conclude “All CAP shows were not up to Tisch standards” or something crazy like that.</p>
<p>clay…I echo what MTgrlsmom wrote above. My D has seen countless shows at Tisch of all types, CAP shows, Stella shows, Playwrights shows, ETW shows, GAP (student run) shows, student directed projects, independent (original) productions, Mainstage productions and so on and so forth, and usually raves about them all, including CAP shows. I myself have seen excellent CAP shows and know some highly talented students in her class (I don’t know the talent of the classes below her senior class at CAP though). I can vouch for some great talent at CAP and some very fine shows I have seen there. My D also saw the CAP showcase and many of her peers are very talented and have signed with agents and are already cast. That doesn’t mean every single kid, however. </p>
<p>My D did see ONE studio level production at CAP (that had no seniors from her year in it) that had fine production values but the particular talent in the show was not typical of other CAP shows she has seen of her own year and older. One show is NOT indicative of the talent at CAP or the production values at CAP. That was one show out of so many she has seen. It was a small subset of students. The CAP shows I have seen have had some very talented students in them. This one was not what she was used to seeing, that’s all, at CAP. My own kid never did any CAP shows as she was already cast in other ones (there are so many production opportunities at Tisch) and like the mom above wrote, who knows who was available to be cast in that one production as many CAP kids could have already been committed to other shows. It was just ONE show. The rest have been very good that she has seen and I have seen. I have only seen one Strasberg show and my D happened to be in it, a musical that let students from any studio participate. There were some very talented kids in it (maybe not all but many were). The directing or production values were not the best show I have seen at Tisch but were not bad either. I simply have seen better ones. I have seen mainstage musicals (my D was in one of those) and many studio level and student run shows and showcases and have been awed by talent at Tisch, from ALL studios including CAP21. I recently saw the Tisch MT showcase that had seniors from several studios including CAP. These were some of the most talented ones. There is variation in talent in any program. Perhaps that one studio show at CAP just didn’t represent the most talented kids in that studio, hard to say. The show at Strasberg had plenty of talent but the production value was not the highest one I have seen at Tisch but it was fine. I hardly judge a studio on ONE production. I saw a few productions and revues at CAP where the students were in my D’s year (this year’s seniors) over the past few years and her class has some very very talented kids in it. Some are already doing well post graduation. I don’t know if that helps.</p>
<p>PS…I will answer your one other question…the training is definitely up to par! My D was thrilled with the training she had at CAP21 and ETW. We have NO complaints. She worked with many talented kids in both studios. Like in any schools, some kids are more talented than others. The most talented kids I have seen in both CAP and other studios have blown me away. That doesn’t mean every kid who attends is on the same level. The training itself has been great.</p>
<p>I emailed Patricia Decker this morning. She replied and said she would like to discuss over the phone. I will post if I speak with her.</p>
<p>I spoke with Patricia Decker this afternoon. She said they did not notify students and parents about this change prior to sending out acceptance letters because the contract negotiations were still ongoing at that time. Regarding the 3rd and 4th year, she said they are still negotiating with CAP21 on that. The program could be CAP or the new studio or a combination of the two. She could not give me a timeline on when those negotiations would end.</p>
<p>Bottom line - they did not suddenly come up with this decision since May 1. It had to have been in the planning for MONTHS. This is highly unfair to those who accepted a spot in this class, then put down a deposit and may have turned down other offers, when someone in admin knew this was going to happen. So you buy a mercedes and then they say, well, after 2 years you have to turn it in, but you will have a decent car to drive, and boy you had a great one for two years, right? We will replace it with another car, we just do not know what it will be yet. Trust us… I wonder how many incoming frosh have called other schools to try to transfer… And even if not, what a downer with which to start their college career. My sympathies, and I secretly am glad my D opted to not accept NYU Cap21. It is just unfortunate and seems unfair to not disclose what they knew was in the works to protect their class size.</p>
<p>Although I agree that the timing of NYU’s notification was very poor, and their communication incomplete, I do feel compelled to point out that Tisch’s CAP21 core primary studio was always a two year program, and it will continue to be so for the incoming class. Yes, you did have the option to continue in CAP21, but many, many students opted to explore the other advanced drama studios. Whatever new MT program Tisch is putting in place, rest assured that, from all the information that is slowly becoming available, it will be top notch. </p>
<p>I don’t think that it is fair to conclude that the incoming freshmen start their college career with a “downer”, as they will still receive their primary training from CAP21 faculty, and have a lot to look forward to. The CAP faculty consists of highly trained and enthusiastic professionals, who will all continue to bring out the very best in their students.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, none of the “top MT programs” are in fact “change proof”. Any school can chose to hire & fire faculty, and chance a curriculum at any given time.</p>
<p>I don’t think the problem is that they won’t put a good program together. I think the problem is that they did not disclose this info. to the candidates when they new they were changing the program – kind of like bait and switch, wouldn’t you say?</p>
<p>I think the timing is unfortunate, but we truly do not know at what point the negotiations got to this point (and they could not announce, “we might change the studio set up” if they were not doing so). But change in a program can come at any time and whenever it does come, some students are affected at that time. I think right now, the hard part is not having the specifics in place at the time of the announcement (or at least not public yet) and so the unknown worries people and some have a sense of it being a negative change. </p>
<p>I don’t see it as a negative change myself. While I don’t have the specifics of the new studio, those who are current CAP kids and those who are incoming CAP students, should be able to continue their MT training at Tisch for the four years (if not opting to do a different advanced studio which many do choose to do). They will have CAP for primary studio (so it is not as if the change is immediate) for two years. I just cannot imagine that the Tisch MT training that is put in place at the new studio is not of at least the same quality as that at the CAP studio. After all, Tisch chose to send students to CAP and so that was the standard they had for their MT training for their students and there is no reason that the new studio will offer anything less. It is even possible that it may be improved in some ways! I’ll be curious if they now offer 8 semesters of MT classes whereas CAP did not, for example. I think productions are changing at Tisch too (my D told me that) and so I’d be curious if there are some positive changes. I don’t see change as negative but simply feels unknown or uncertain. But in any case, the students will be in MT training at Tisch either way…CAP or a new studio.</p>
<p>I know lots of kids who applied to Tisch who wanted CAP and were placed in an entirely different studio and loved their training at Tisch. They were still involved in MT. The CAP students will be training in MT at CAP for two years and then hopefully in a new MT studio if they don’t do a different advanced studio. I am not sure the change will really be that different than they were expecting to do in terms of classwork and faculty for college. </p>
<p>When a college puts a curriculum change in place, some classes will have that happen in the midst of their college career and so that is hard to avoid. I REALLY hope that Tisch gets much more detailed information out for current and incoming CAP and Strasberg students, as well as prospective applicants. I agree with MTgrlsmom, that the incoming students are not starting with a downer. They ought to be very excited by their four years of training at Tisch School of the Arts. When my D entered Tisch, I expected her to do four years at CAP but she did five semesters there and three at ETW. I never weighed ETW when she entered college or ever knew she’d be in that program at that juncture, and all I can say is that she had an amazing experience in that studio. She CHOSE it and is so glad she did. It is not like CAP is the only great thing about Tisch. :D</p>
<p>One more thing…
CAP is essentially six semesters of MT training classes and one semester of showcase preparation with some workshops with agents and casting industry folks. </p>
<p>So, the current and incoming CAP students are guaranteed four semesters of MT training in the CAP 21 studio. So, that means they now need to replace just TWO semesters of their MT classes in the NEW studio that will have a MT PROGRAM. I’m not sure that is negative and it may even be neat to experience some new faculty and MT classes for one year. It is not as if all their years of MT training at CAP have all been taken away unexpectedly.</p>
<p>That leaves the seventh semester, the showcase semester, that someone who had opted to stay in CAP for six semesters would then have had if they opted for it in the fourth year (some change studios for just the fourth year too). So, that would be a question of what the new studio would do in place of this. Something worth asking about. But the showcase semester aside (which is not a full array of MT training at all), we are talking of just TWO SEMESTERS OF CAP TRAINING that will now be in another MT studio (unless the student opts to do one of the many other Tisch studios and indeed, about half my D’s class opted to do that).</p>
<p>My daughter had a conversation with a current Cap student and she told me that she is really excited about the changes. She felt that the changes were all for the good and that MT at Tisch would now be even better!!!</p>
<p>Mtgrlsmom makes an excellent point. No MT program out there is change-proof, and the reality is that it is quite possible that many kids who will be entering programs all over the country in September may find that there have been faculty changes at their schools since the time of their audition this past winter. This is assuming that, as applicants, these kids even made connections with specific faculty at auditions and would even be aware of the changes. My guess is that none of these possible faculty changes have been communicated to incoming students at other colleges. </p>
<p>I have to say that, in a way, I find some amusement in this situation in that there are always people who complain about Tisch because they ‘farm the kids out to studios’, and now, when they’re bringing those kids back, so to speak, and forming their own studio, there are still people who are going to complain. </p>
<p>There really is no way to have altered the timing of this in a way that would have made everyone happy. I think it’s pretty amazing that they were able to negotiate an additional two years, as it is.</p>
<p>That’s true that at other schools, often faculty change, curriculum changes or even the chair or department head changes at a BFA program. This is along those lines. The changes don’t take place for any current or incoming students until after two years in CAP21 studio. After that, the chair of their studio, their faculty and the arrangement of the curriculum will have some changes. This happens in some fashion at many programs that don’t have “studios”.</p>
<p>What doesn’t change is that the student is in Tisch and remains in Tisch and Tisch has standards, whether they enroll their students in CAP or Strasberg or whether they offer similar programs at their own internal studio. Their standards for BFA training won’t change (or at least not be lowered).</p>
<p>In my seven years on CC, I have read of countless changes in faculty, department heads and curriculum at many MT programs. That is what this is but it sounds different due to the “studio” set up. As well, the changes will not be put into effect for at least two years into any of the current or incoming CAP/Strasberg students’ training and so it is not as if their entire four years has been changed suddenly. Usually, change in education is meant to be improvement and for the better. Tisch Drama (that includes CAP) has a relatively new department head, Liz Bradley (former Drama chair at CMU). At most schools, when a new chair takes over a department, some changes in faculty or curriculum or policies and such occur. This is not unusual at a college.</p>
<p>I am the parent of a rising Tisch sophomore who is in CAP and who planned to stay in CAP through the showcase. I think I speak for most parents in my situation when I say that what is making us and our kids most uneasy is that we don’t have much specific information yet. We don’t know really anything about the new studio for musical theater and acting, except it is being created and that it will undoubtedly offer fabulous training. But those are <em>general</em> things. We want specifics, and especially, specifics as to what this means for our kids who are part-way through the CAP program. We want to know, specifically, what will happen when our kids finish their sophomore year at CAP.</p>
<p>^^^I agree completely with NMR. That is the real core of being uneasy…because the specifics are uncertain. Some see it as negative change but I don’t see it as negative but rather as “unknown” and “not specific”. It is really important that Tisch gets out information as soon as possible for the current/incoming CAP and Strasberg students as to what the curriculum, etc. will be after the second year of training and how all that works. Further, it is crucial this information comes out sooner rather than later as prospective students are finalizing their college lists and need information. While my own child has graduated now from Tisch, I am advising applicants in this next cycle, several of whom have Tisch on their list for MT. So, I’m with ya, NMR, that the specifics need to be forthcoming. The longer the “unknown” remains, the more uncomfortable people are and in some cases, assume negative things.</p>