<p>Have any of you dealt with what I'll call the "religion problem"? This has nothing to do with faith, but course load. Catholic college-prep high schools like my D's generally require 3.5 to 4 years of religion/theology/whatever-they-call-it. At her school it means a mix of fairly basic lower-level classes in Christianity/moral choices, etc, and in the upper-division it means very interesting classes that involve a fair amount of reading and writing-- I would call them English or philosophy classes.</p>
<p>The Catholic colleges know this and factor these grades and classes into the GPA and big picture. I hear non-Catholic colleges can toss them out. Has anyone had experience with this?</p>
<p>The other issue is that these classes "take up" a period that the typical CC kid seems to fill with yet another AP class, or something challenging. The Catholic school kids don't get a choice.</p>
<p>My D wants to go to a non-Catholic LAC, and I'm wondering if her As in theology will be ignored (even if it was a literature-based class), or if they'll respect that these were required by the school and have solid academic components.</p>
<p>I’ve heard the same thing regarding religion. My youngest daughter is a junior in a Cath. school. I was told by her guidance counselor that many non-Catholic colleges don’t even look at religion. However, not doing well in it can hurt a student’s GPA. I recently went on a college tour with my daughter at a very prestigious school and I asked whether not being able to take a challenging course due to religion would hurt her. I was told that as long as a student is taking the most challenging courses available in the core courses (math, science, Eng. history and foreign language) that taking religion would not make a huge difference. We’re hoping that turns out to be true.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you specifically–but I can tell you that I was concerned about this as well. My D did get into some top non-religious LACs and will be attending one in the fall. Her classmates also got into some top schools (Vanderbilt, WashU, USC) as well, and the list of schools that the students from their brother school got into is always pretty impressive.<br>
Your D’s high school should be sending a profile to all her colleges that will explain the curriculum. (I would strongly suggest asking her guidance counselor to see a copy). The colleges will understand that she had to take these classes and had fewer class periods to take APs.</p>
<p>S is in the same boat. The religion requirement has meant he doesn’t have room for other classes he might have taken. I assume the admissions folks know this and I know this info is included in my S’s school profile. I always assumed that the religion grade was not included when colleges recalc GPA.</p>
<p>You shouldn’t be penalized for it, and I can’t think of an LAC that would penalize you for it. It’s just like kids that attend schools that don’t offer AP classes or offer few of them, they don’t get penalized because they took the 2 APs available and other kids at schools with 24 APs took 9 AP courses. Similarly, kids that attend schools that require religion courses don’t get penalized because they didn’t take other courses in that space. I’ve never heard of an LAC not counting religion grades into the overall GPA for a student, I don’t know if they do so at large universities but I would also doubt that very much. Especially because at some Catholic schools, those religion classes count as Social Studies credits which are required to graduate and to complete a college prep curriculum, even if they are billed as religion.</p>
<p>Look at the list of colleges where the kids have been accepted. My D’s catholic school class acceptances include Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and many more. Also, it seems many of them apply to catholic colleges.
I have not seen an impact based on the catholic schools in my city</p>
<p>My daughter’s a junior at a Catholic prep hs, and next year she will take her 4th required year of theology. We’ve asked at 4 or 5 (non-religious) LACs when we visited, and they all said, “We include it as an academic course, which it is, in the GPA, and we see on the school profile that it is required. It’s not detrimental at all.”</p>
<p>Some went on to say that, in light of this extra requirement, they are especially impressed with kids who include some APS and Dual Credits in their course-load as juniors and seniors.</p>
<p>My impression was that it certainly doesn’t hurt, and in some ways could actually help.</p>
<p>My son goes to a religious school. There weren’t as many religious course requirements as what you mentioned, but when colleges calculated his weighted GPA they did not include the religious courses. He did talk to 1 college, never applied through, that was a religious college that said they would include his religious courses in the GPA calc.</p>
<p>Thanks to all. I know some state Us (including the UCs) don’t include the religion classes, but it’s good to hear than many LACs do. Some of these classes, especially the upper-division ones, have a solid English (spirituality in literature) or social studies (word religions, global justice & peace issues) curriculum.</p>
<p>researching4emb… I agree. My son’s religious courses were some of the most challenging and educational courses he took in high school. A lot of the kids put off these requirements as long as they can because they have the reputation of being difficult. They aren’t “bible courses” in most cases, they are really english courses with a religious emphasis. We were very hesitant in sending our kid to a religious school, but were very impressed with this added coursework requirement.</p>
<p>I’m reasonably certain that college admissions staff don’t hold meetings to figure out how to jimmy their systems so they can disadvantage good applicants from Catholic schools. “Hey, let’s ignore some of their required courses! That’s sure to knock a couple students out of the running!” </p>
<p>If your child is attending a parochial high school, presumably there is a REASON you chose that school. I’m not sure what the purpose of debating whether or not the required religion courses will or won’t count in the GPA matters. If your child attends these schools, then these courses are required. And that’s that.</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP was questioning whether these courses are required, but more wondering what our collective experience has been in whether the grades have been included in college GPA calculations. Many colleges re-calculate hs GPA to exclude sports and fine arts, for example, so the question was really dealing with whether that would also be done with theology/religion grades.</p>
<p>momofsongbird…I understand the question…but what difference does it make? The same question could be posed about PE or culinary arts or any number of other courses. Colleges make their choices on the courses they use to compute GPA. I’m not sure why the OP is asking this question.</p>
<p>I will agree…I don’t think schools are trying to put the screws to students who go to parochial schools where there is a religion requirement. </p>
<p>It is what it is what it is…so what exactly IS the concern?</p>
<p>I agree with Thumper. There are many rigorous Catholic schools who have grads going to the most selective colleges without a problem with the religion classes. Having to take Religion can be a disadvantage for some student who could be taking something else he prefers to take and could take in another environment, yes. But the Religion course could also be giving a big heads up in other subjects. </p>
<p>My kids go to Catholic schools, and the Religion courses are very well run. They are perfect supplements to the History, Language and English course my son is taking. The course he is most anticipating next year is a Religion course taught by a well known Jesuit who is supposed to be phenomonal and the course is one everyone seems to want to take. </p>
<p>In any situation where there is a requirement or just the way things are done, there can be advantages and disadvantages depending on what the individual wants. My second child did not go to Catholic school because none of them offered the level of music and other performing arts instruction that was his level. He would have had to gone to a conservatory program outside of school if he were to continue progressing in that area. This was taken into account when we looked at high schools. </p>
<p>Kids who want to go to state schools and are intereste in merit money are often not well served by the best independent schools that do give you a leg up in admissions to some of the LACs. The unweighted, rigorous grading scale, narrow class rank can also be disadvantages to some students. </p>
<p>You can’t have it all with your choices unless you are very lucky and happen to find yourself in the situation where all of the personal factors landed the right way in your highschool. Since you are just a kid, 13-14 years old when you start high school, there is no telling whether that school will be such a fit for you come senior year. So it is with college too.</p>
<p>thumper, you’re right: it is what it is. It just seemed interesting to compare notes about how colleges perceive it.</p>
<p>I send my daughter to a particular Catholic school, not because we are Catholic; we aren’t. But the school has many, many things we value and is head-and-shoulders above our local public schools. So, like the OP, I’ve been interested in learning how colleges view the mandatory theology courses. That’s all. Not a big deal, but interesting to compare notes on with others who have the same curiosity.</p>
<p>*My D wants to go to a non-Catholic LAC, and I’m wondering if her As in theology will be ignored (even if it was a literature-based class), or if they’ll respect that these were required by the school and have solid academic components. *</p>
<p>My kids went to Catholic schools and some colleges included their religion grades and some did not for admissions. The school that they are at - a public flagship - included their religion grades.</p>
<p>My kids could take 8 classes per year if desired. So, they could have graduated with 32 classes. If you subtract 4 religion classes, that is still 28 classes. That’s enough for any college to accept you.</p>
<p>Thumper, no need to give me a hard time, I was just wondering, because my D wants to go to a non-Catholic LAC. Her sister is at a Jesuit college, and they definitely count those classes. Their high school does not send a lot of girls to east coast LACs-- the vast majority go to UCs, Cal States and Catholic colleges, so we just don’t know that much about how it works. Obviously she has to take the classes because they’re required-- I was just wondering if the LACs tossed those classes out the way the UCs do. </p>
<p>Her school is a strict 6-period system all four years, with 3.5 years of theology required. They get all the core academics in, and the school does a fine job of teaching, but it doesn’t leave a lot of room for electives and extra APs. We have no complaints, though-- our girls have gotten excellent educations, including in theology (and we’re not religious, either).</p>
<p>My D did take 28 classes at a Catholic high school. Applied only to secular colleges, all of whom recognized all the grades, but obviously took more interest in the non-theology classes. Most of my own students at work graduate with 18-20 classes from publics and a few privates. And still, the religious schools among those offer more academic unit opportunities apart from religion classes than do even the best publics.</p>